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BJJGround Forum >> MMA Fighter? You better learn another guard


1/27/13 11:26 AM
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kying418
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Edited: 01/27/13 11:26 AM
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If you are an MMA fighter, you better get proficient at another guard other than the closed guard.

There are simply too many wrestlers at the highest levels that will take you down, remain in your guard, and win a decision.

In last night's fight with Hioki vs. Guida, even though Hioki was the more active fighter, he was stuck in closed guard, and refused to open up to play a different guard.

Witness BJ Penn vs. Frankie Edgar- same thing. The wrestler will win 9 out of 10 decisions if you decide to just stay in your closed guard.

You may win a handful of fights in the UFC with a wicked closed guard, I just don't see bjj players winning championships anymore against super high level wrestlers.

PS- Lets see what Maia does to Fitch next week. Nothing would make me happier if an effective closed guard could win decisions- sadly, I dont think that is the case with these judges.

1/27/13 11:27 AM
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kying418
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I'm not sure what guard needs to be learned.

Maybe more butterfly?
1/27/13 11:31 AM
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Baroquen Record
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I don't think this is such a new revelation. Closed guard has been next to useless in mma since fedor beat nog the first time. Phone Post
1/27/13 11:32 AM
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kying418
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Baroquen Record -  I don't think this is such a new revelation. Closed guard has been next to useless in mma since fedor beat nog the first time. Phone Post

I guess you are correct- it just pains me that these fighters with amazing bjj won't try another type of guard.
1/27/13 11:34 AM
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Calibur1980
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Sounds easy enough. :p

I can't wait for Jiu Jitsu black belts to get into the UFC. Those wrestlers will have a real problem on their hands, then! Phone Post
1/27/13 11:44 AM
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Shemhazai
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Agressive half and butterfly games are better, IMO. RDLR/ tornado (watch Marcin Held), overhook butterfly, deep half, X-guard/leg locks ...
1/27/13 11:50 AM
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Eazy08
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rubber guard
1/27/13 11:57 AM
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Christophr
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Most jiu-jitsu schools are *packed* with potential UFC champs. We've got to solve this problem...let's think...

How about x-guard?
1/27/13 12:04 PM
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kying418
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Edited: 01/27/13 12:05 PM
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Christophr - Most jiu-jitsu schools are *packed* with potential UFC champs. We've got to solve this problem...let's think...

How about x-guard?


Dont get me wrong, I think you can possibly win the BB Mundials with a killer closed guard, and I love sport BJJ.
I always tell my students to just have fun with BJJ and try whatever suits them.


However, if you are training your ass off in mma and have aspirations to be a UFC Champ, you will never beat the likes of GSP or Ben Askren with a closed guard.  (on the other hand, you will have a tall task beating them with any guard- but at the very least- dont stick with the closed guard)

1/27/13 12:50 PM
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Christophr
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kying418 - 
Christophr - Most jiu-jitsu schools are *packed* with potential UFC champs. We've got to solve this problem...let's think...

How about x-guard?


Dont get me wrong, I think you can possibly win the BB Mundials with a killer closed guard, and I love sport BJJ.
I always tell my students to just have fun with BJJ and try whatever suits them.


However, if you are training your ass off in mma and have aspirations to be a UFC Champ, you will never beat the likes of GSP or Ben Askren with a closed guard.  (on the other hand, you will have a tall task beating them with any guard- but at the very least- dont stick with the closed guard)


Yeah, I was just being a smartass.

I guess the larger question is: how relevant is jiu-jitsu to MMA at this point?
1/27/13 1:23 PM
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k1levelstriking
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Watch Joslin vs Koscheck to see how to use Butterfly in MMA Phone Post
1/27/13 1:28 PM
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EddieBravo
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10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, www.thetwister.tv
Deep half, rubber guard, butterfly guard, lockdown half system IMO Phone Post
1/27/13 2:05 PM
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Nasiello
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I think in MMA, and the way the judges score fights, butterfly guard, or any guard you use to distance yourself and stand-up are the way to go.

No matter how active you are on your back, the judges score you as losing the round.
1/27/13 2:17 PM
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liquidrob
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Butterfly, can get you back up, switch to singles, great sweeps

Its almost impossible to win in todays mma from your back, last real good fight between fighters at a higher comp level where the guy on bottom won was Ben Saunders vs Luis Sapo using his rubber guard type version, he landed great strikes and never was hit himself

Also Aoki vs JZ

1/27/13 2:19 PM
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Muffinho
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butterfly, shoot for leg locks
1/27/13 2:22 PM
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liquidrob
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I have said it before, but one of the biggest reasons bjj guys don't do as well or sub as much i MMA is because they don't go all out for breaks, you need to put everything into those subs attempts

The guys who get the taps don't care if they break something, Aoki, Paul Harris, Mir, these guys get crap for this but its a double standard you dont are when talking about strikers

You don't see strikers holding back on strikes, only trying to knock you out a little, they're putting you out as hard as you can, the sub guys need to do the same thing IMO
1/27/13 3:03 PM
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pbody
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Daniel Sarafian used deep half really effectively against CB Dollaway last weekend. Phone Post
1/27/13 3:09 PM
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biggator
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dont understand why butterfly isnt used more.
1/27/13 3:32 PM
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Im a real boy
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This was covered a bit in the last episode of Rolled Up with Drysdale. Basically, Drysdale said that he felt Butterfly was the best or most versatile for MMA in his opinion. I can see why though, great for sweeps, creating space, and getting back up.
1/27/13 4:22 PM
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CompanyBlue
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I agree to an extent but Hioki clearly won while fighting from his back against Clay no doubt about it. He got robbed of a decision. Clay didn't land anything on the ground and Hioki landed strikes and near subs. Getting real judges is what we need.
1/27/13 4:25 PM
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liquidrob
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CompanyBlue - I agree to an extent but Hioki clearly won while fighting from his back against Clay no doubt about it. He got robbed of a decision. Clay didn't land anything on the ground and Hioki landed strikes and near subs. Getting real judges is what we need.

yeah, I agree, Hioki won the fight, but in todays MMA its very very hard to win a fight that way, the judging is awful

Its like when Mousasi fought Jardine, besides the silly point deduction, I believe the judges gave Jardine a round where he threw like 4 strikes from the top and Mousasi beat the crap out of him from the bottom for the entire round
1/27/13 5:08 PM
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kilemark
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kying418 -

If you are an MMA fighter, you better get proficient at another guard other than the closed guard.

There are simply too many wrestlers at the highest levels that will take you down, remain in your guard, and win a decision.

In last night's fight with Hioki vs. Guida, even though Hioki was the more active fighter, he was stuck in closed guard, and refused to open up to play a different guard.

Witness BJ Penn vs. Frankie Edgar- same thing. The wrestler will win 9 out of 10 decisions if you decide to just stay in your closed guard.

You may win a handful of fights in the UFC with a wicked closed guard, I just don't see bjj players winning championships anymore against super high level wrestlers.

PS- Lets see what Maia does to Fitch next week. Nothing would make me happier if an effective closed guard could win decisions- sadly, I dont think that is the case with these judges.

Maia has a great mma half guard. Phone Post
1/27/13 5:09 PM
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TheBulgarianAssassin
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Rubber Guard!
1/27/13 6:36 PM
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Setree
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BJJ isn't an offensive art. It's even called a "guard."

1/27/13 8:33 PM
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nogidavid
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EddieBravo -  Deep half, rubber guard, butterfly guard, lockdown half system IMO Phone Post

agree with eddie, all his guys are killing it in MMA with that system


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