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UnderGround Forums >> Elite tier of strikers in MMA?


1/27/13 8:57 PM
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UGCTT_whittaker_is_the _real_demolition _man
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legkicktotehhead - Shogun's KO of Machida was a technical showpiece. Shogun baited Machida into throwing his trademark left straight with a feint. You see Machida reacts to his opponents movements. Machida sees an opponent make a movement and then will typically fire off the left straight. Machida did the same thing to Rashad and drilled Rashad with a left straight dead on his nose. Machida wasnt fighting Rashad this time, he was fighting Shogun.

Shogun fiented, getting Machida to bite. Machida bit hard on Shogun's fient. Machida then fired off the left straight like he always does. Little did he know he was playing right into Shogun's hands.

Shogun slipped the left straight, then came over the top,and drilled him up side the head with an over hand right. Shogun essentially out Machida'd Machida - fiented him into his trademark counter and then countered the counter to knock him out!

Shogun's KO of Machida is one of the most under rated and classic knockouts of all time, especially considering the history and importance of it all

Also in the first fight how Shogun would back Machida up with punches, then when Machida had his back to the fence, and his feet were out of position, Shogun wouod hammer into Machida with brutal kicks. Shogun would even out counter Machida. There were times when Shogun would sit on his strikes and time Machida's trademark rushes with hard well timed counters (kicks and punches)

Shogun really can be a technically brilliant MMA striker at times. Just because he has had some performances when injured or when rusty that doesn't take away from what he can do and has done. When Shogun is at his best and is mixing it up, there are very very few strikers more effective and more dangerous then Shogun. Very few

You are one messed up kid.

I think a problem a lot of usually elite strikers i.e. Reem have when it comes to MMA is the fact that they have so much to look out for compared to pure striking which in some cases can really throw them off their game.
1/27/13 8:58 PM
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D241
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"That knee didn't even drop Shogun"

 

Perhaps it didn't, but it was the main reason he lost the fight. Disagree with that than you are disagree with Shogun and his camp.

1/27/13 9:01 PM
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MdGeist
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Wasa-B - 
MdGeist - 
orcus - 
MdGeist - 
liquidrob - Mousasi still never dropped standing or outstruck

Came here to post this.

I dare to say that he has the best pure boxing skill in all of MMA


What are his best standup displays in MMA, and who were the best strikers he stood with in MMA?


You already know the answer to this question. I'm sure that you've googled his record on numerous occasions.


Just begs the question....if you are to be considered an elite anything in MMA, you have to justify it with the results.

Moussasi is undoubtedly, in technique one of the best strikers in MMA but he still doesnt have the elite wins to justify it.

There is a diff to having world class technique and world class victories in comp to back it up. I think it will come but at this point, i dont think he has.

You right, he does have to prove himself against a top 10 LHW in the UFC to back up his reputation. But when Gegard fights Gus, I have no doubt that he will outstrike him anywhere the fight goes.

The only way I see him losing is a freak injury or if they bring in a corrupt, nationalistic Swedish ref. to oversee the fight, Gus. pulls a Kongo and stalls Gegard against the cage for 5 rounds while the ref. does nothing to seperate them.

1/27/13 9:15 PM
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Pro Ice
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I did say that was my opinion Severn

Machida is incredibly creative that's why I said no disrespect I just think Machida uses mainly the same style/techniques in his fights his 'crane kick' is obviously one of the most beautiful/creative moves ever, but other than that most his fights go more or less the same way, again this is just my opinion

Imo Aldo mixes it up more with a variety of creative techniques and is overall more creative.

1/27/13 9:48 PM
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whoabro
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Gokudamus stole my name -
whoabro -  Reem's striking in mma is pretty awful imo from a technical perspective-- very stiff, no head movement, poor footwork, relies on his newfound size. And anyone who knows anything knows that his gp win had a LOT to do w injured and old opponents Phone Post

While i would agree Overeem is not that technical and relies too much on his size, i do think he doesnt get enough credit for his K-1 career

I can buy that he got the lucky draw in the GP. But he also beat Aerts in a super fight, a few months before that Aerts had just beaten Semmy Schilt who was almost invincible at the time. Then of course he went 1-1 against Badr Hari and lost a close decision to Remy Bonjasky. At worst one can say he was a top K-1 fighter but not the best K-1 fighter

And i dont see why he gets singled out for being lucky in the GP. Ernesto Hoost won a GP after being KTFO in the opening round, then he gets the alternate spot and fights Ray Sefo in the semis who injures his shin early in a freak accident. That leaves Hoost in the finale after a combined 5 minutes total in the ring against Lebanner who had just finished a 3 round war against Mark Hunt

Or how about Bonjasky who won a GP by beating Cyril Abidi and Musashi.


Sorry orcus for thread highjack lol
All fair points-- im not saying he sucks or anything, just that his GP win (and k1 career in general) doesnt mean hes a striking god. He is certainly very good and deserves credit for what hes done, especially the hari win. Phone Post
1/27/13 10:06 PM
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wreckker
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Overeem is MUCH better than he used to be.

K-1 grandprix winner and his monstrous power make him the elite striker at hw Phone Post
1/27/13 10:17 PM
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D241
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Lots of yall are underestimating the power of the knee

1/27/13 10:18 PM
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orcus
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RockyBullwinkle - 
orcus - 
MdGeist - 
liquidrob - Mousasi still never dropped standing or outstruck

Came here to post this.

I dare to say that he has the best pure boxing skill in all of MMA


What are his best standup displays in MMA, and who were the best strikers he stood with in MMA?


Well he beat the shit out of Mushasi and Kyotaro in straight K-1 matches so his standup has to be pretty good right?

I don't care what happens in K-1. Which MMA fights should I watch to see him put on a beautiful display against someone good?

1/27/13 10:20 PM
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D241
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Edited: 01/27/13 10:20 PM
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I didn't give Overeem much respect before he went to face Liddell, and didn't have much for him recently after. But I have grown to realize this guy has really come a long way. The only reason I like Overeem, is because of how good he has gotten.

1/27/13 10:21 PM
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mijo
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Edited: 01/27/13 10:21 PM
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No one has better ground and pound than Jon Jones right now.

Anderson Silva
Aldo
Machida />Pettis
1/27/13 10:22 PM
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Lazer MMA
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D241 - 
legkicktotehhead - Also, OP is wrong. Machida was handily out striking Jones through out the first round. Machida was winning the fight. The momentum of the fight dramitically changed when Jones took Machoda down and cut him with an elbow. Blood started getting into Machida's eyes. He couldn't see the akward punch from Jones that dropped him. Also, if you look at the exchange. Both threw and landed at the same time but Machida hit Jones on the neck while Jones hit him on the chin. Jones height and reach were the sole factors in that exchange

Before the Op defends himself, let me ask you this question. In the Jon Jones Lyoto Machida fight, which one was dropped via a strike?

 

hint http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=1921548



LOL D2
1/27/13 10:22 PM
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D241
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Edited: 01/27/13 10:23 PM
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.                                 .                                                 .                                                                                     .

1/27/13 10:22 PM
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Wasa-B
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legkicktotehhead - 
D241 - 

"That knee didn't even drop Shogun"

 

Perhaps it didn't, but it was the main reason he lost the fight. Disagree with that than you are disagree with Shogun and his camp.


I have never bought into that non sense! Shogun has come back from much harder shots. The shot from Nogeria which actually did drop him. Shogun came back from that. An hbomb which actually did drop him, and Shogun came back from that too

Jones took Shogun down 15 seconds into the fight. Jones spent a good portion of the first round smoothering the much smaller Shogun from the top position via size. Plus Shogun burnt out a lot of energy trying to sweep the much bigger Jones. After a while Shogun eventually was able to get back to his feet, and thats a testament to Shogun'a ground game, but Shogun was already done by then. Shogun's gas tank was nearing empty. The fact Shogun went two more rounds on basically empty, that speaks a lot about Shogun's heart.

Dont forget though, how Shogun came into the fight already in bad shape due to coming off surgery. Shogun spent his whole training camp preparing for Rashad too. To have his opponents switched on him at the very last second from Rashad to Jones, it was a major curve ball. Shogun only had 6 weeks to prepare for Jones while Jones had more then a year to study Shogun due to helping Rashad prepare for Shogun. It was a ridiculous advantage for Jones. Shogun was already at such complete disadvantages before the fight had even started ( Shogun coming off surgery to boot)

You dont have to buy into shit, Shogun admitted it.

http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/81873.html

"I'm disgusted, [Jon Jones] hits hard," Shogun told Graciemag. "I got hit by a knee early in the game and I was out of the fight all along."

I love Shogun but you need to climb out of Da Nile.
1/27/13 10:25 PM
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orcus
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Manhoef hasn't had much opportunity to show striking prowess in MMA. He had a nice legkick clinic against Lawler before getting one-punch KTFO, and he had an ugly brawl with Cyborg. Other than that he's usually getting taken down and subbed or just smashing some nobody with a haymaker hook or something.

"K-1 grandprix winner and his monstrous power make him the elite striker at hw"

He looked good against Brock but terrible in his immediately previous fight against Werdum.

Sorry but when this was one fight ago I have to laugh at calling this guy god tier like Pettis, Anderson, and Aldo:

 

1/27/13 10:25 PM
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D241
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Wasa-B - 
legkicktotehhead - 
D241 - 

"That knee didn't even drop Shogun"

 

Perhaps it didn't, but it was the main reason he lost the fight. Disagree with that than you are disagree with Shogun and his camp.


I have never bought into that non sense! Shogun has come back from much harder shots. The shot from Nogeria which actually did drop him. Shogun came back from that. An hbomb which actually did drop him, and Shogun came back from that too

Jones took Shogun down 15 seconds into the fight. Jones spent a good portion of the first round smoothering the much smaller Shogun from the top position via size. Plus Shogun burnt out a lot of energy trying to sweep the much bigger Jones. After a while Shogun eventually was able to get back to his feet, and thats a testament to Shogun'a ground game, but Shogun was already done by then. Shogun's gas tank was nearing empty. The fact Shogun went two more rounds on basically empty, that speaks a lot about Shogun's heart.

Dont forget though, how Shogun came into the fight already in bad shape due to coming off surgery. Shogun spent his whole training camp preparing for Rashad too. To have his opponents switched on him at the very last second from Rashad to Jones, it was a major curve ball. Shogun only had 6 weeks to prepare for Jones while Jones had more then a year to study Shogun due to helping Rashad prepare for Shogun. It was a ridiculous advantage for Jones. Shogun was already at such complete disadvantages before the fight had even started ( Shogun coming off surgery to boot)

You dont have to buy into shit, Shogun admitted it.

http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/81873.html

"I'm disgusted, [Jon Jones] hits hard," Shogun told Graciemag. "I got hit by a knee early in the game and I was out of the fight all along."

I love Shogun but you need to climb out of Da Nile.

 


 
D241 - 

"That knee didn't even drop Shogun"

 

Perhaps it didn't, but it was the main reason he lost the fight. Disagree with that than you are disagree with Shogun and his camp.

 
1/27/13 10:29 PM
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D241
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I was at Werdum/Overeem and there is absolutely no reason to have any "gifs" or to take anything from that fight.

 

If you think Werdum's stand up vs Overeem was the same stand up Werdum used against Russow and Roy Nelson, I don't know what to tell you.  

There's areas to respect and not to respect, and Overeem didn't respect Werdum's stand up. He didn't lose the fight b/c Werdum made him pay for not respecting his stand up game.

 

 

 

But Orcus, lets get down to brass tax. Since you give Overeem zero credit, how about we do a sig bet, I got Overeem, and you got JDS.  You tucked on this bet before, and my guess is you'll tuck again. If that fight is made, what do you say about being confident to bet on a striker against Overeem in mma?

1/27/13 10:38 PM
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BROTHER WISDOM
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Heres Anderson Silva's tier












Heres everyone else
1/27/13 10:41 PM
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D241
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Those were such DEVASTATING blows in that Werdum gif  lol

 

All those gifs show is that Overeem obviously didn't respect Werdum's stand up, and those gifs show why.

1/27/13 10:42 PM
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UGCTT_whittaker_is_the _real_demolition _man
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American1177 -  Lol you tards putting Pettis at the top already. He is great but best in game? You fat slobs start to train Phone Post

You got some issues son.
1/27/13 11:02 PM
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D241
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I hope orcus can provide some gifs of Kalib Starnes exhibiting superior footwork in his fight with Nate Quarry, even though he lost that fight.

1/27/13 11:06 PM
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D241
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orcus - 

He looked good against Brock but terrible in his immediately previous fight against Werdum.

 

 

How do you think Nate Quarry looked against Kalib Starnes?
 
Why do you think Overeem was awarded as the unanimous winner in his fight with Werdum? Clearly you are suggesting that Werdum outstruck Overeem, am I wrong? So if not, tell me oh wise one, HOW did Overeem win his fight? Was it all his groundwork in that fight? I'm curious.
1/27/13 11:11 PM
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Bloodstorm
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melvin manhoef the highest ko ratio in mma if im not mistaken Phone Post
1/27/13 11:58 PM
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BigSleep
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brass tacks imo.
1/28/13 1:09 AM
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orcus
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"All those gifs show is that Overeem obviously didn't respect Werdum's stand up, and those gifs show why."

Yeah, you always backpedal across the ring as fast as you can when a guy whose standup you don't respect at all is throwing punches at you. Not respecting standup = Anderson vs Okami or Bonnar. Not Overeem vs Werdum.

What the gifs show is, just one fight ago, the guy that some are putting forth as God Tier Striking standing around flat-footed and getting repeatedly one-twoed by a guy who looks slow and crappy, and even being driven across the ring by him.

"If you think Werdum's stand up vs Overeem was the same stand up Werdum used against Russow and Roy Nelson, I don't know what to tell you.  "

So what you're saying is Werdum looked worse than usual that night and yet still managed to repeatedly one-two Overeem right in his God Tier face and chase him across the ring with no devastating counter forthcoming from the Reem.

"How do you think Nate Quarry looked against Kalib Starnes?"

Hmm. Nate chased a fleeing opponent. Werdum chased a fleeing opponent and tagged him multiple times with crap strikes. Are you trying to say Quarry looked like shit against Kalib? Because the only one who looked bad in that fight was Starnes.

"Why do you think Overeem was awarded as the unanimous winner in his fight with Werdum?"

Beats me.  It's hilarious that you're implying that Overeem must have done something right because the judges -- MMA's infamous judges -- gave him the win.

Fightmetric in fact has Werdum winning under both the 10-point must system AND their own system, and -- unsurprisingly -- also landing more strikes (both significant and otherwise) than Overeem: http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/06/overeem-vs-werdum-ii-official.html . What do you make of that?

 

"But Orcus, lets get down to brass tax. Since you give Overeem zero credit, how about we do a sig bet, I got Overeem, and you got JDS.  You tucked on this bet before, and my guess is you'll tuck again. If that fight is made, what do you say about being confident to bet on a striker against Overeem in mma?"

It's brass "tacks". How can I tuck on a bet I never offered? And do you see me putting JDS's name forth here? In any case Overeem will probably take him down just like he did Buentello and Rogers and Kharitonov and Crocop, i.e., basically every actual striker he's beaten in MMA. 

"i cannot believe u took the time to make gifs of all that extremely mediocre technique."

I didn't make them, and they are showing the absurdity of putting Overeem in the class of Aldo, Anderson, and Pettis at this time.

1/28/13 1:46 AM
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aka_rtotheoh
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carlos condit. perfect example of 8 limbs Phone Post

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