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S&C UnderGround >> How mental is fatigue?


1/27/13 5:28 PM
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gusto
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i read this:

http://www.premium-steroids.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=169

Apparently, that is not the case. A study conducted just recently in Canada shows a very strong athletic benefit inherent in Modafinil. During this double-blind investigation, a dose of 4 mg per kg of bodyweight (this equates to 200 mg for a 220 lb man) of Modafinil, or placebo, was given to a group of fifteen male volunteers. Three hours after ingestion, aerobic exercise was conducted on a cycle ergometer at 85% V02 max (maximum aerobic power) and time until exhaustion. While taking Modafinil, the men were able to exercise for significantly longer (around 30%), and had greater Oxygen intake at exertion. They also reported lower subjective ratings of perceived exertion (RPE), which suggests that the increased performance was in part due to a significantly less pronounced sensation of fatigue during exercise.

......................................................


This seems to be saying that a lot of fatigue is thought related as in "if you dont realize you are tired, you arent tired"

With weights, i guess training to failure lets you know you are "fatigued" even if you dont feel it but im not sure how to relates that to cardio
1/28/13 10:39 AM
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vermonter
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Edited: 01/28/13 10:41 AM
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I think this is mostly the same as "how mental is hunger?"

It's my brain that feels it, so in a sense, 100%. Some people are just pussies, so they quit without much fatigue (i.e. their perceived exertion is relatively high), but it's a problem in the other direction too. Working too hard isn't great either, hence why you have a desire to quit in the face of fatigue to begin with. From an evolutionary standpoint it must be advantageous.

Constantly running one's self into the ground isn't a goal one ought to strive for. Part of the reason humans are so incredible at endurance is because our bipedal locomotion forces us to fall if we push ourselves too hard. Dogs can run themselves to death. That doesn't mean they have greater will than we do, or that the will of either species is weak, but that pushing yourself that hard just isn't good for you or productive.

Ergo, worrying about overcoming one's mental weakness toward fatigue is probably a waste of time. Motivation in general is probably a more worthwhile pursuit. Homo Sapiens are endurance beasts in the land-animal world precisely because we have a will of iron.
1/28/13 10:51 AM
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vermonter
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To further the biology point, from an evolutionary standpoint, humans are afforded the greatest will (and no suprise, the largest brain to go along with it). If willpower and reproductive success are at odds (see the dog example) willpower would have a built in ceiling. So how could nature possibly increase will beyond that point? Put the animal on two legs. Once blood flow to the motor cortex is limited enough the person just falls (see the famous example of the marathon runner who went down just before the finish line). The sudden change in pressure, elevation of the head relative to the heart, etc causes an immediate return to homeostasis. Even in extreme examples of willpower causing endurance failure (from purely athletic causes) recovery to health is nearly instantaneous.

So boom. Human beings have, almost certainly, the greatest willpower of all animals simply because our bipedal stance affords us greater sexual selection for it.

God I love science.
1/28/13 1:25 PM
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Taku
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With the type of training I prefer (low volume, hard work, to volitional fatigue) then mental practice is key. Folks must learn to push throgh the "Fight or Flight" moments which arrise when one is doing very hard work. With practice and coaching, many will learn to push through those mental barriers and continue on to true VMF of MMF.

Some however can never truly go there...It is a learned and practiced skill like many others.

TAKU

1/28/13 2:58 PM
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gusto
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I know in terms of bjj, i made a decision that i would not stop rolling due to exhaustion (about 5 years ago)

i was really surprised with how much i had left in me past the point where i would have stopped in the past









1/28/13 3:18 PM
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BshMstr
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gusto - i read this:

http://www.premium-steroids.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=169

Apparently, that is not the case. A study conducted just recently in Canada shows a very strong athletic benefit inherent in Modafinil. During this double-blind investigation, a dose of 4 mg per kg of bodyweight (this equates to 200 mg for a 220 lb man) of Modafinil, or placebo, was given to a group of fifteen male volunteers. Three hours after ingestion, aerobic exercise was conducted on a cycle ergometer at 85% V02 max (maximum aerobic power) and time until exhaustion. While taking Modafinil, the men were able to exercise for significantly longer (around 30%), and had greater Oxygen intake at exertion. They also reported lower subjective ratings of perceived exertion (RPE), which suggests that the increased performance was in part due to a significantly less pronounced sensation of fatigue during exercise.

......................................................


This seems to be saying that a lot of fatigue is thought related as in "if you dont realize you are tired, you arent tired"

With weights, i guess training to failure lets you know you are "fatigued" even if you dont feel it but im not sure how to relates that to cardio

i believe Modofanil has some dopamenergic effects, although not as strong as amphetamines....

when my ADD meds kick in, i can work outside all day long and not even think about it, and will realize 10 hours later that i haven't eaten or drank anything.

these medications have some pretty amazing effects, when used properly.... when misused, they can be quite horrible.
1/28/13 3:24 PM
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BshMstr
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i think for purposes of that test, a stimulant like that can have an amzing effect....


conducting a test like that is mentally pretty taxing.....basically push yourself as long as you can, and then it's gonna hurt and you'll fail.

whereas a race against other peole would provide much different motivation....the desire to beat them and win, is much different that just going to you can't go anymore.


some people excel with pressure, whereas some don't...
1/28/13 3:28 PM
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BshMstr
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^i know for me, i tend to underperform in practice, and generally perform better the more pressure there is... with that being said, i've never participated in something like pro sports or the Olympics, so it's possible that i would be unable to perform in that kind of pressure.


anyway, for me, if i was giving a test like in that study, the stimulant would help me a lot to stay on task. however, if i was competing with other people, i wouldn't really need it...
1/28/13 3:48 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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neuromuscular adaptation and central governor theory FTW

1/28/13 6:37 PM
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gusto
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ArthurKnoqOut - 

neuromuscular adaptation and central governor theory FTW


i dont know what that means in this context fren. please explain
2/4/13 7:06 PM
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TexDeuce
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Very interesting. I take modafinil a couple times every month or two to keep me from getting sleepy. Stuff works. Phone Post
2/5/13 3:06 AM
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Leigh
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"a dose of 4 mg per kg of bodyweight (this equates to 200 mg for a 220 lb man)"

No, that's 400mg for a 220lb man Phone Post
2/6/13 4:33 PM
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BshMstr
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Leigh -  "a dose of 4 mg per kg of bodyweight (this equates to 200 mg for a 220 lb man)"

No, that's 400mg for a 220lb man Phone Post

ha! good point.... i hadn't noticed that when i read the article...

that's a pretty significant difference in a dose, especially since 200mg is the average starting dosage...

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