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BJJGround Forum >> Keenan vs Miyao was a Bjj abomination


1/28/13 7:09 AM
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JSho
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The match isn't that bad, problem is they are both evenly matched in 50/50 skills so is a deadlock a lot of the time. Phone Post
1/28/13 7:17 AM
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Hywel Teague
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carcaju - Vid to said match Hywel?
Not up yet, just saw pics and posts Phone Post
1/28/13 7:20 AM
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vegard
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http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=zPhMTdQwiao

Blue, pls
1/28/13 7:24 AM
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MOFuKA
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Mma fan boys bitching about a bjj match. Go watch John Fitch and GSPs professional hugging. Phone Post
1/28/13 7:35 AM
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None So Blind
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shen - 

That is the kind of BJJ match that makes sport TKD players rightfully say, "That's some completely unrealistic sh!t right there."




FLAWLESS VICTORY. FATALITY.

:-)
1/28/13 8:16 AM
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Jessy30
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I have to generally disagree with most of you. The reason being that GUARANTEED both of those guys have sound fundamentals. Once your fundamentals are sound you can break the rules. You see it all the time in everything else. Writing is a perfect example. But even in other sports at the elite levels the rules are broken all the time. the risk is greater sure, but when you face some one with equal or near equal skill at the elite level you have to get inventive, creative, try unorthadox things. Does that mean that a pro basketball player couldn't handle himself against someone who never played? Or even against someone who plays recreationally? Of course not! they would destroy! Likewise do you really think that keenan (who I am not a fan of as long as he stays with li) or myao brothers couldn't take down and sub any untrained person? Its an absolute silly thought!! And that is what bjj is meant for! To take a tiny guy like myao and let him defend himself against a big strong athletic UNTRAINED person. That being said, which of you, if you ended up grappling, without strikes, any rules, are confident you would beat either of those two? Yes, any grappling rules. And you are mostly all trained to some extent. so the statement "this shit is ruining our art" is silly. Is there stuff that wouldn't be practical on the "street"? Sure. (btw how, many of you blowhards have ever actually been in a real "streetfight" or needed to use bjj to defend yourself? I have and against an untrained person it becomes silly how easy it is to control someone) but also there comes development and advancement to real life applications, moves and concepts which COULD be applied were certain situations to arise in a fight. This match was entertaining and high level and while not a demonstration of "what would happen if they faced an untrained attacker in real life never forget what WOULD happen. They would destroy. Now I ask you. How again is this ruining our art? Phone Post
1/28/13 8:19 AM
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Rival School
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If you play the non boring game against any of these guys you will fall into their trap and they will steam roll you. Phone Post
1/28/13 8:24 AM
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Rival School
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Miyao bros pull guard and you have two choices to stand and fight the most thorough berimbolo game out there or pull guard will him and fight his hooks with grip breaking and leg position.

Why play into someone strong suit when you know you're even if you pull with him. Or actually not that even because everyone Keenan double pull on the brothers he has won. Phone Post
1/28/13 8:33 AM
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Bjjudo
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GrahamJ -
Muffinho - If I did this during a match, my world champion instructor would stop coaching and walk away.

Your instructor obviously never raped a woman.
Ouch Phone Post
1/28/13 8:47 AM
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checkuroil
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No one is saying they don't understand the fundamentals. I pointed out how good Keenan looked at the kumite. The point is that they are exploiting a flaw in the rules and its turning Bjj to shit Phone Post
1/28/13 8:56 AM
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bmorela3
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that pass was nasty Phone Post
1/28/13 9:06 AM
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Rival School
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checkuroil - No one is saying they don't understand the fundamentals. I pointed out how good Keenan looked at the kumite. The point is that they are exploiting a flaw in the rules and its turning Bjj to shit Phone Post
To shit? I think you are exaggerating. Catch up with the current game or get left behind by guys like this. Change the rules and they will win under those rules too. Just like the mendes bros doing the underhook in front of the leg and this it becomes illegal. Didn't stop them and they continues to dominate. Phone Post
1/28/13 9:23 AM
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pray for japan
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checkuroil - No one is saying they don't understand the fundamentals. I pointed out how good Keenan looked at the kumite. The point is that they are exploiting a flaw in the rules and its turning Bjj to shit Phone Post
no one at the kumite other than keenan was at the level of miyao. not in gi jiujitsu Phone Post
1/28/13 9:29 AM
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Rival School
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pray for japan -
checkuroil - No one is saying they don't understand the fundamentals. I pointed out how good Keenan looked at the kumite. The point is that they are exploiting a flaw in the rules and its turning Bjj to shit Phone Post
no one at the kumite other than keenan was at the level of miyao. not in gi jiujitsu Phone Post
Fact. Pablo is about the only guy at brown or purple to give Keenan problems.

He usually rips Joao's ass Phone Post
1/28/13 9:39 AM
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A_Butler
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Rival School - If you stand in their guard there is a high percentage you will get berimbolo'd so why take that chance. People want an exciting match but to beat Paulo or Joao you can't play their game in turn not making the most exciting match. Phone Post
I don't think the complaint, or argument, is that the match was boring. The argument is that sitting on your ass in front of another guy sitting on his ass grabbing at each others feet and pants and spinning around on your head isn't considered a realistic threat or "real" jiu jitsu. It serves no purpose other than to eek out an advantage or score a point. Instead of doing jiu jitsu, playing top position, or attacking, these two jockied for foot position and were content with playing grab ass.

Now I'm sure that if you put me in front of either of them and made me play this game they would sweep me at will. However, if either guy sat in front of me and tried this it would simply take a slap to the face to realistically defend against it. I love bjj as much as everyone else here. I can handle seeing the berimbolo stuff and the crazy inverted guards and what not. But this is just too much.... Phone Post
1/28/13 9:42 AM
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Muffinho
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In fairness, this won't happen again. Paulo is going to rip Keenan's foot off next time.
1/28/13 10:27 AM
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Jessy30
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A-butler...if you put strikes in that is a completely different scenario. Unless you are making the claim that these two have unsound basic bjj then I don't see any logic behind your complaint. Against an untrained person who was "throwing" a slap at them they would use sound basic jiu jitsu. The only way for you to get what you want is to pair these guys against untrained opponents...then you will see bjj "as it was meant to be". Whatever the fuck that actually means. Phone Post
1/28/13 10:30 AM
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Muffinho
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any avg blue belt in the world should be able to take down the average individual they meet on the streets.

After that, it's just vicious death.
1/28/13 10:34 AM
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Nikem
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Keenan left his family to do that? Looks like its so worth it.
1/28/13 10:52 AM
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John Clarke
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checkuroil -  No one is saying they don't understand the fundamentals. I pointed out how good Keenan looked at the kumite. The point is that they are exploiting a flaw in the rules and its turning Bjj to shit Phone Post

Agreed.

And it's not about "evolve" or get left behind, that is perhaps the worst argument ever. This has nothing to do with the individual competitors in this case, it has to do with a flawed scoring system.

Athletes in any sport will try and "work" the ruleset to their advantage - nothing at all wrong with that. But when the rules fail to evolve and prevent an awful display like the first 4 minutes of this match, we have a problem.

Rule sets that allow this to happen are one of the reasons BJJ will never be a true spectator sport or even be considered for the Olympics.

I don't care if the current techniques work in the street or not, this isn't my argument. My argument is the current ruleset lends to very unwatchable, uninteresting BJJ.

Imagine trying to hook one of your buddies on BJJ and you had one match he could watch, it would never be one like this.

Again, this is about the rules, not the competitors. There were slick back grabs and guard passes for sure, but imagine how much more of that we may have seen if the competitors weren't permitted to sit on their butts for almost 5 minutes.
1/28/13 11:22 AM
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Daniel/CGJJ
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- Penalize double guard pull

- Award 4 points for a clean throw

- Allow more leg attacks & reaping



and that will end all this nonsense

1/28/13 11:29 AM
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Muffinho
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Daniel/CGJJ - - Penalize double guard pull

- Award 4 points for a clean throw

- Allow more leg attacks & reaping



and that will end all this nonsense


How do you penalize double guard pull? give each person a negative? Hardly a deterrent.

4 poiints for a clean throw just makes people want to pull guard more.

most of the people who play double guard aren't tapping to this leg lock shit.

1/28/13 11:30 AM
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puppet
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Personally I don't have a problem with the double guard pull. It might not be street jiu jitsu, but its very technical non the less. Grip fighting, fighting for foot position, taking backs, and going inverted is all fair game to me. Exciting stuff. Phone Post
1/28/13 11:37 AM
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Nikem
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Muffinho - 
Daniel/CGJJ - - Penalize double guard pull

- Award 4 points for a clean throw

- Allow more leg attacks & reaping



and that will end all this nonsense


How do you penalize double guard pull? give each person a negative? Hardly a deterrent.

4 poiints for a clean throw just makes people want to pull guard more.

most of the people who play double guard aren't tapping to this leg lock shit.


The person who comes on top gets 2 points instead of one advantage.
1/28/13 11:53 AM
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Muffinho
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^^I like that.

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