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Revgear League BJJGround >> Keenan vs Miyao was a Bjj abomination

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1/28/13 11:59 AM
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checkuroil
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Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass Phone Post
1/28/13 12:01 PM
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Rival School
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puppet - Personally I don't have a problem with the double guard pull. It might not be street jiu jitsu, but its very technical non the less. Grip fighting, fighting for foot position, taking backs, and going inverted is all fair game to me. Exciting stuff. Phone Post
Agree.

Also I don't care if it's a spectator sport and I know it would work in a fight. If you think you can defend this game with a smack you're dreaming because the hand smack him with you should have been breaking grips and therefor will get your back taken or get leg locked Phone Post
1/28/13 12:03 PM
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Rival School
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checkuroil - Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass Phone Post
He passed but Paulo still spun around and got guard back.

Also they worked specifically to pass the Miyao brothers guard.

You guys can knock it all you want but they beat everyone else. Phone Post
1/28/13 12:24 PM
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MojoWorkin
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Relax, it was just toe wrestling.

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/outdoor/news-toe-wrestling-sweeping-world-its-feet
1/28/13 12:33 PM
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dokomoy
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checkuroil - 
dokomoy - This thread is pretty dumb and that match wasn't nearly as bad as you all are making it out to be. I mean I'm not going to argue that it was an exciting match by any stretch, but that wasn't some stallfest where neither guy tries to do anything. Double guard is a complicated game, but both guys were trying to work from there and the second half of the match was pretty cool. That back take attempt by Paulo was pretty cool(and the only other person I've seen have Keenan in that much trouble was Rodolfo so that's kind of cool too) and that pass Keenan hit was pretty neat too.

If you guys don't like guard pulling or double guard or think that jiu jitsu should be all about self defense that's fine, but then why even bother watching these matches? Sport jiu jitsu is what it is and there are a lot of people who love it and don't care that what they do isn't "street applicable" or whatever.
Five minutes of foot to foot isn't that bad? Phone Post

Yea. I don't think double sitting is any less valid than any other guard, so for me the question isn't how long were they there it's were they attacking? And the answer to that is yes, not successfully obviously but that happens sometimes when two guys are close in skill.

1/28/13 12:46 PM
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Herbish1
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I didnt see the match. But I agree most people exploit the rules to hang on to a win. If they made ibjjf sub only, if you don't finish you're opponent you're eliminated. Make the finals and semi finals no time limit. I think it would add to the prestige instead of scoring an advantage and holding on.

Also get rid of some of the silly reaping rules. Phone Post
1/28/13 12:53 PM
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TV
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I thought it was a good match. Phone Post
1/28/13 12:54 PM
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checkuroil
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Rival School -
checkuroil - Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass Phone Post
He passed but Paulo still spun around and got guard back.

Also they worked specifically to pass the Miyao brothers guard.

You guys can knock it all you want but they beat everyone else. Phone Post
U r discounting the fact that Keenan won based on a standing pass Phone Post
1/28/13 1:07 PM
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liquidrob
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"Sometimes these things happen in BJJ" - Gus Johnson
1/28/13 1:15 PM
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deepu
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I used to think matches like this were boring but then I started playing the berimbolo game and my attitude has changed completely. The ability to sweep and pass at the end of the sweep (or take back) is critical when fighting guys with crazy guards. Berimbolo allows for that.
1/28/13 1:15 PM
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Rival School
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checkuroil -
Rival School -
checkuroil - Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass Phone Post
He passed but Paulo still spun around and got guard back.

Also they worked specifically to pass the Miyao brothers guard.

You guys can knock it all you want but they beat everyone else. Phone Post
U r discounting the fact that Keenan won based on a standing pass Phone Post
Against Pablo yes but Joao no. Sitting guard with dueling toe holds leads to Keenan taking his back an choking him unconscious with an Ezekiel choke.

Also you act like that was a methodical pass. I'm sure Pablo won't just lay without grips ever again. With grips that pass doesn't happen. Point is Keenan had multiple way of fighting them. To ignore the option of pulling also is silly.

I know or some reason you guys love throws. I love ground work. Phone Post
1/28/13 1:25 PM
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GrahamJ
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Nikem - Keenan left his family to do that? Looks like its so worth it.

Double gold- at brown belt!!1!
He raped the competition.
1/28/13 1:27 PM
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IBTAPNU
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Yeah, just what our sport needs... MORE RULES! 

Great matches. I loved it.

 

 

1/28/13 1:30 PM
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GrahamJ
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Then they'd just be fighting on the ground for ages - still - while they try to stop one another from standing.
1/28/13 1:49 PM
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Rival School
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WhoRunsBarterTown - There would be less incentive to pull guard and there would be more incentive to try to get back to their feet both things BJJ needs to have.

Sorry, but I'm tired of seeing BJJ being laughed at as a fighting style. It really is getting less realistic than TKD. Bjj guys are specializing in beating other BJJ guys under bjj rules. Incentivizing top position and actually having to work to hold a person down would go a long way to bring BJJ back to it's roots.
You get your feelings hurt to easy. My school doesn't have a judo program but there is one really close an they come roll with us. I pull guard and obliterate all of them so really people can laugh all they want Phone Post
1/28/13 1:50 PM
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John Frankl
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Just watched Miyao vs. Grippo. Could barely stay awake.
1/28/13 1:52 PM
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vegard
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looks like a two guys fighting for the sheets
1/28/13 2:56 PM
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elburrogrande
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puppet - 
WhoRunsBarterTown - Lets see how well that strategy works in a real fight.
So is the argument for competition jiu jitsu, or bjj as self defense/martial art? Phone Post

with keenan or miyao breaking the foot, or destroying the knee of their attacker. Best case scenario they take his back and put him to sleep.
1/28/13 3:03 PM
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Furacao
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Definite split occurring between old school BJJ'rs vs new school...

Having started BJJ in the 90's with the intent of joining a real fighting art and adding it to my kickboxing and wrestling background, I cannot see the attraction with the "new BJJ sport game".

Does someone really join BJJ nowadays with this being the top of ones "game" and still consider themselves involved in a fighting art?

Of note, I do teach my students berimobolos but with the sole intent of smashing this BS. One did it very well while medaling at Worlds this year smashing several new style berimobolos "playas" winning from the top position.
1/28/13 3:25 PM
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slick_mcfavorite
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I agree with furacao. I love bjj cause it is a fighting discipline. Spending any amount of time working on fighting someone in double butt guard is like training knee wrestling. It's a shame it has sort of come to that too win at some of the bigger tournaments at the lighter weights. Phone Post
1/28/13 3:35 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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Daniel/CGJJ - - Penalize double guard pull

- Award 4 points for a clean throw

- Allow more leg attacks & reaping



and that will end all this nonsense


-2 for guard pull. (whoever comes on top gets 2). Allow heel hooks/reaping.
1/28/13 3:36 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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Furacao - Definite split occurring between old school BJJ'rs vs new school...

Having started BJJ in the 90's with the intent of joining a real fighting art and adding it to my kickboxing and wrestling background, I cannot see the attraction with the "new BJJ sport game".

Does someone really join BJJ nowadays with this being the top of ones "game" and still consider themselves involved in a fighting art?

Of note, I do teach my students berimobolos but with the sole intent of smashing this BS. One did it very well while medaling at Worlds this year smashing several new style berimobolos "playas" winning from the top position.

Same here.
1/28/13 3:40 PM
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elburrogrande
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Furacao - Definite split occurring between old school BJJ'rs vs new school...

Having started BJJ in the 90's with the intent of joining a real fighting art and adding it to my kickboxing and wrestling background, I cannot see the attraction with the "new BJJ sport game".

Does someone really join BJJ nowadays with this being the top of ones "game" and still consider themselves involved in a fighting art?

Of note, I do teach my students berimobolos but with the sole intent of smashing this BS. One did it very well while medaling at Worlds this year smashing several new style berimobolos "playas" winning from the top position.

I disagree completely. Watch Marcin Held vs Rich Clementi. Marcin proves that the 50/50, tornado guard, and inverted guard could all be used very effectively against a trained opponent in MMA. And Marcin Held is not even an elite grappler.
1/28/13 3:43 PM
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elburrogrande
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Also would like to add that daniel sarafian used the deep half very effectively recently against CB dollaway. A technique most instructors still say will get you killed in a combat scenario.
1/28/13 3:47 PM
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onyx2002
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This may not be the most popular opinion but I believe this is developing this way BECAUSE of the love of BJJ. People are coming into it for many different reasons but are staying solely to practice bjj/grappling.

At 29 when I started I thought that I would start training and then work on other parts of MMA and eventually fight. Early on I realized I loved grappling and I didn't like getting punched. So I train and I train and I train. Not to fight but to train. As such everything is of interest to some degree. I've tried spiral, 50/50, deep half, closed guard, rubber guard, standard half guard, z guard. I've focused on leg locks, neck only chokes, head and arm chokes, armbars, triangles, shoulder and wrist locks. I've spent time on lots of things because they stimulate my mind and my body. I plan on training for a very long time and I have no desire to only drill moves that are street certified. Yes that might be closer to what Helio wanted but for me this is fun and fun is why I come to class.

I'm not particularly good at anything primarily berimbolo related but mostly because I train more no gi than gi, but all these people that look down on the berimbolo, I would submit that if you took your best smasher of the berimbolo and put them up against Rafa or Gui Mendes that is would not go well. Even if you created a rule set that outlawed the berimbolo Rafa would eat their lunch.

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