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BJJGround Forum >> Keenan vs Miyao was a Bjj abomination


1/30/13 5:39 AM
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Caught_clean
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Except Keenan won by standing up and passing his guard standing.
1/30/13 5:49 AM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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just so you know.... i didnt vote you down. i dont think ive ever used the button.

"The fact Keenan uses this method, one he told me hates, is all the proof you need. If the best brown belt in the world needs to pull that shit, it goes to show that anything else will get you caught."

effective..... yes. shit.....yes.


"Pure' jiu-jitsu is a misnomer, something spoken by martial artists who refuse to evolve, to learn new techniques or styles"

is that bad? why? is the prohression seen in other styles/arts and in jiujitsu today all good?.....certainly there is some good, ut human nature/ego can fuck a good thing up.
1/30/13 5:53 AM
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Hywel Teague
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Caught_clean - Except Keenan won by standing up and passing his guard standing.
In the match prior he put Joao to sleep with a choke from the back - got there by engaging from double guard. Phone Post
1/30/13 5:59 AM
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Hywel Teague
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Sgt Slaphead,

I have reservations about "pure" martial arts. It evokes for me the situation of JKD, and the guys teaching "authentic" 1967 Jun Fan just like Lee did in
Seattle at the time blah blah - because they ignore the basic principle of the art and refuse to evolve.

We're already seeing it in BJJ with some guys teaching "authentic" GJJ like Helio taught, ignoring modern innovations. Phone Post
1/30/13 6:25 AM
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elburrogrande
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Hywel Teague -  Lol at butthurt old school guys voting me down

Absurd as watching two grown men scissoring may be, if this is what is required to nullify the Miyaos' game then doesn't that speak to it's effectiveness?

The fact Keenan uses this method, one he told me hates, is all the proof you need. If the best brown belt in the world needs to pull that shit, it goes to show that anything else will get you caught.

"The rules are to blame! Allow leg attacks! This isn't 'pure' jiu-jitsu!"

You want to ban guard pulling? I'm sure Helio would have approved.

Keenan went for a leg attack and almost got his back taken as a result.

'Pure' jiu-jitsu is a misnomer, something spoken by martial artists who refuse to evolve, to learn new techniques or styles.

Sport jiu-jitsu is what it is. That doesn't mean the real life application (teh street / MMA) of jiu-jitsu will cease to exist, so long as people continue to train it. Phone Post

finally some common sense. VTFU
1/30/13 11:23 AM
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Mister Crabs
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The Miyaos and Cornelius are all very, very good and are just doing what they find to be strategically advantageous in competition. Given their results, they know what they are doing. Having said that, it's not for me and watching a match like this leads me to the opinion that Ryron, Rener, and those that approach BJJ similarly, are on to something...at least for me.
1/30/13 12:34 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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Hywel Teague -  Sgt Slaphead,

I have reservations about "pure" martial arts. It evokes for me the situation of JKD, and the guys teaching "authentic" 1967 Jun Fan just like Lee did in
Seattle at the time blah blah - because they ignore the basic principle of the art and refuse to evolve.

We're already seeing it in BJJ with some guys teaching "authentic" GJJ like Helio taught, ignoring modern innovations. Phone Post

I can certainty agree with some of your reservations. Ive been exposed to a lot of JKD/JKD Concepts. In fact I started training it many years ago to give me better tools than what jiujitsu has for certain problems........but I think we're discussing a slightly different path of change/innovation such as what we see in judo.
1/30/13 12:56 PM
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MickColins
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"We're already seeing it in BJJ with some guys teaching "authentic" GJJ like Helio taught, ignoring modern innovations."

 

Not all innovations are good things. The scissoring trend is not a good thing. The rules in both MMA and Sport BJJ need to be addressed for a variety of reasons. Sport BJJ needs its rules evaluated. The exploitation of shitty rules should be a wake up call.

1/30/13 1:22 PM
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Eazy08
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Haters
1/30/13 1:35 PM
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IBTAPNU
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Hywel Teague -  Lol at butthurt old school guys voting me down

Absurd as watching two grown men scissoring may be, if this is what is required to nullify the Miyaos' game then doesn't that speak to it's effectiveness?

The fact Keenan uses this method, one he told me hates, is all the proof you need. If the best brown belt in the world needs to pull that shit, it goes to show that anything else will get you caught.

"The rules are to blame! Allow leg attacks! This isn't 'pure' jiu-jitsu!"

You want to ban guard pulling? I'm sure Helio would have approved.

Keenan went for a leg attack and almost got his back taken as a result.

'Pure' jiu-jitsu is a misnomer, something spoken by martial artists who refuse to evolve, to learn new techniques or styles.

Sport jiu-jitsu is what it is. That doesn't mean the real life application (teh street / MMA) of jiu-jitsu will cease to exist, so long as people continue to train it. Phone Post

Agreed upon.

I started training in 1992 and have kept up with every "new" trend that has hit the sport since I started. I have no problem with this one either.

1/30/13 1:46 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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MickColins - 

"We're already seeing it in BJJ with some guys teaching "authentic" GJJ like Helio taught, ignoring modern innovations."

 

Not all innovations are good things. The scissoring trend is not a good thing. The rules in both MMA and Sport BJJ need to be addressed for a variety of reasons. Sport BJJ needs its rules evaluated. The exploitation of shitty rules should be a wake up call.


exactly! For example,innovation in some of the self defense material would be "good"......this shit in competition is "bad", especially if it influences the direction devopement of jiujitsu takes.

my examlle of judo......couple nights ago my daughters' sensei made changes to traini g in reslonse to new rules for competition. this is what happens when competition becomes the driving force behind a style.
1/30/13 3:42 PM
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Werewolf1085
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Never seen Rodolfo, Roger, Xande and that company take advantage of these "rules"
1/30/13 3:46 PM
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Muffinho
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Werewolf1085 - Never seen Rodolfo, Roger, Xande and that company take advantage of these "rules"

Doesn't happen as often at black belt because black belts have more complete games.
1/30/13 4:47 PM
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Mighty Cthulhu
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Werewolf1085 - Never seen Rodolfo, Roger, Xande and that company take advantage of these "rules"

Definitely have seen Saulo do it. I remember watching Saulo matches where I wanted to claw my eyes out it was so boring ... strategy of just getting a couple TD points and then stalling to the end.

Point stalling is in no way a new phenomenon.

I actually think that professionalizing BJJ is only going to exacerbate this even further. When very little is on the line, guys can go for broke. When it's all about money, the focus on points becomes even more dominating.
1/30/13 5:09 PM
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John Frankl
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Watch Marcio Feitosa vs. Leo Vieira.
1/30/13 5:27 PM
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TheOtherWhiteFlu
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Mighty Cthulhu - 
Werewolf1085 - Never seen Rodolfo, Roger, Xande and that company take advantage of these "rules"

Definitely have seen Saulo do it. I remember watching Saulo matches where I wanted to claw my eyes out it was so boring ... strategy of just getting a couple TD points and then stalling to the end.

Point stalling is in no way a new phenomenon.

I actually think that professionalizing BJJ is only going to exacerbate this even further. When very little is on the line, guys can go for broke. When it's all about money, the focus on points becomes even more dominating.

Xande vs Roger a couple years back where Xande grip fought and then went for a takedown towards the end. Won by advantage. This is after stating that they had "figured out how to beat Roger" before the comp or some such. Roger then won the absolute via triangle.

Bad example as Saulo and Xande are consumate competitors and play to win.
1/30/13 5:31 PM
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TheOtherWhiteFlu
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Mighty Cthulhu - 
Werewolf1085 - Never seen Rodolfo, Roger, Xande and that company take advantage of these "rules"

Definitely have seen Saulo do it. I remember watching Saulo matches where I wanted to claw my eyes out it was so boring ... strategy of just getting a couple TD points and then stalling to the end.

Point stalling is in no way a new phenomenon.

I actually think that professionalizing BJJ is only going to exacerbate this even further. When very little is on the line, guys can go for broke. When it's all about money, the focus on points becomes even more dominating.

Also, you can't rip on the competitors for taking advantage of the rules. The idea that competitors should play by some abstract idealistic vision of the art as opposed to doing everything they can to win is delusional.

Great athletes become great precisely because they are driven to the point of compulsion to win.

The issue is that the rules, while they might have made sense at a certain point in time, are warping the underlying art in asinine ways.
1/30/13 8:49 PM
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elitecmbt -  ^^^^Or you could learn a takedown and get two points. Hell, if they pull guard while you attempt a takedown you get two points. But you would rather have an advantage? Phone Post

really? hard take dn a guy that slides into 1/2 guard

1/31/13 2:31 PM
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BjjGearJunkie
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liquidrob - "Sometimes these things happen in BJJ" - Gus Johnson
Lol Phone Post
1/31/13 3:17 PM
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JZilla
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John Frankl
Spot on!
Damn Feitosa and his stalling, crooked gracie barra (in the old days at least) Phone Post
1/31/13 3:21 PM
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dirt fan
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Haha these common responses to people that have no idea what was going on. Phone Post
2/1/13 2:11 PM
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biggator
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https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/14955_564680146894384_1645649358_n.jpg

HAHAHAHAHA blue please
2/1/13 2:28 PM
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None So Blind
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^^^ LOL
2/1/13 2:35 PM
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philodox
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http://i.imgur.com/PgqloiZ.gif

Double flying half guard pull

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