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BJJGround Forum >> Relson Gracie JJ vs. Gracie JJ


2/1/13 9:32 PM
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FatBuddha
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It varies depending on group class versus private lesson students, but traditionally they are taught only after you progress through the empty handed standing techniques. Yes, I teach the gun defenses. Email me at sabood@lastlinedefense.com if you're interested in seminars. My website is www.lastlinedefense.com for more info. Thanks.
2/2/13 3:25 AM
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The Professional
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I am a Relson Gracie brown belt and trained with Relson from blue-purple almost entirely (every class). I know Relson and Rhalan somewhat well after all these years.

Relson's Jiu Jitsu? He does not place his focus on competition primarily, as a poster prior said. He puts his focus on "what my daddy taught me."

If I asked Relson to do his "most important seminar," it would involve stand up self defense (including knife attacks), followed by the most effective ground attacks you'll see from a Gracie.

His game is traditional to Helio, to a point that you cannot realize was true all along. For example, white-purple, I could never tap someone with the first technique we're typically ever taught, yet last technique to ever revisit and master (cross collar choke). Relson can do these (traditional moves) to anyone. Similar along the lines as Roger.

Relson is Gracie Jiu Jitsu... To the most extent possible, almost to a fault. He is one of the originals, but has never tried to mass market Helio Gracie Jiu Jitsu. No DVDs. No online series, etc. Good luck finding patches, t-shirts, etc.

I don't know what else to say about the man besides he's a living legend. I am proud to say I was promoted to purple and brown by Relson Gracie. Can't wait to see what Rhalan's career path will become. Phone Post
2/2/13 11:58 AM
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Mister Crabs
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I've met Relson years ago and I know that he is an eccentric guy, but he is one of the guys I wold really want to train with if given the chance. I love his approach to jiu jitsu. You can't get any more authentic than him when it comes to BJJ IMHO.
2/3/13 3:46 AM
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The Professional
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Went to Abu Dhabi Hawaii trials today. Seeing all the Relson shirts just goes to show, the enormous impact he made in Hawaii alone. Phone Post
2/3/13 4:56 AM
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m.g
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Mat Pimp and FatBuddah,

Excellent posts! Thanks for the great insight and information.
2/3/13 12:50 PM
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markus
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The Mat Pimp - 
markus - 
The Mat Pimp - I do. I can teach them in his format, or in a reorganized curriculum which I have developed, showing the same techniques in alternate groupings.


Reorganized...thats the word i was looking for. ryron and rener have reorganized helios original 40 lessons.

before he retired did relson still teach the original 40 lessons?


FRAT (short answer: no)

Not really. He could teach the self defense techniques from the 40 lessons in his sleep, but he wouldn't necessarily teach them in the original 40 lesson order. Relson always focused his teaching, in the years I was around him, on sport jiu-jitsu and his own street fighting system which he taught on Tuesday and Thursday "t-shirt classes". Rash guards were for surfing, haha.

The original 40 lessons were meant to serve as an introduction to jiu-jitsu that would be both interesting and comprehensive. The lessons succeed in this regard, but there are certain drawbacks.

First, they were designed to be taught one-on-one in private lessons with a highly trained instructor certified by GM Helio Gracie. If you don't have that, there will be holes in the techniques and their interrelatedness won't be clear.

Second, because they were done in a specific order with a specific student, there wasn't a possibility of a student not being exposed to certain techniques because he had to go through all of them and in order. With group classes, where people show up when they want, there's the problem that they learn one headlock escape and not the next. This creates problems. For example, club defenses are scattered through the course, but to me it makes more sense to teach them consecutively so that people can see how they fit together.

Third, they make no attempt to be sport-safe or sport-legal, and involve a lot of techniques which involve weapons and can result in injury if done at full power. These are the types of techniques which Kano removed from Judo, but which the Gracies were happy to include in their system.

So when Relson taught self defense techniques, he taught them in the order that he thought was appropriate, or in response to a student's question and not in the original 40 lesson order. After his father passed away, I think that Relson has begun to lay more emphasis on GM Helio's original teachings and focus on self-defense jiu-jitsu and has asked that all of his academies teach this material. At our academy, we have three black belts that focus on it, the others focus on MMA and sport jiujitsu. When I teach the SD curriculum, the techniques are pure GJJ but we do it in a scenario-based order.

excellent post....as i was reading this i thought you were talking about GA-torrance.

over the years, rorian took a lot of criticism for showing the self defense and no focus on sport jj.

having raylan come train at the academy for 6 months I think shows the amount of respect relson has for rorion.

i'm curious about your opinion on why relson was NOT critisized the same way rorion was about showing the self defense. Did relson have a tournament class or a judo class he added so students could do competition?

thanks for your response.
2/3/13 1:30 PM
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biggator
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i dont think there is much difference in the competition focus between the two. guys from ga have always competed if they wanted too same as relsons
2/4/13 2:06 AM
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FatBuddha
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m.g - Mat Pimp and FatBuddah,

Excellent posts! Thanks for the great insight and information.

no problem, thanks. Day 3 with Relson tomorrow. The last 2 days we worked on a very cool guard passing sequence that we've worked on before, but he tightened up some of my details. I watched a brown test for black belt - he didn't pass - although unfortuate for the individual, it's good to see a test with the possibility of failure; if there isn't, it loses all meaning. Tomorrow, 2 hours or so of training in the morning together, then we drive to 2 hour seminar later on in the day.

He showed me a mass attack strategy when a bunch of guys are trying to stomp you on the ground. I've been very interested in "mass attack scenarios" as the Atienza family (kali masters) (my business partner's speciality at lastlinedefense.com) emphasize them from a standing situation but you rarely see them taught on the ground. My judo teacher also emphasized mass attack strategies utilizing throwing techinques. I think it's a very important thing that's not emphasized even when people are tyring to focus on self defense. A 1 on 1 challenge match is one thing, a self defense situation is another.

Late night ramble over. Good night all!
2/4/13 3:51 PM
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biggator
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2/4/13 4:27 PM
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Beeran
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No butterfly guard? Wow. I think butterfly is one of the most (if not the most) important guards in MMA. Guess the streetz is a bit different but still, that surprises me.
2/4/13 4:33 PM
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Moke
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How is butterfly gwuard important in MMA?
2/4/13 4:52 PM
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Beeran
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Moke - How is butterfly gwuard important in MMA?

It's so versatile, great for sweeps/unbalancing, etc. Not saying everyone uses it, but that doesn't make in unviable in a fight.
2/4/13 5:18 PM
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Moke
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Edited: 02/04/13 5:24 PM
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In mma I think it's alright as a transitory position or to get half butterfly for sweeps, but too many guys pull full butterfly guard and waste a lot of time from there. Usually after having no submissions available to them they eventually get passed.

Full butterfly guard broadcasts that you only have a butterfly sweep available. The other guy readies himself for that, and can also simply leave your guard any time he wants.

In a fight it's even worse.
2/4/13 5:30 PM
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12
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relson uses more gi grips

2/4/13 5:53 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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12 - 

relson uses more gi grips


In what context are you speaking of?

In the t-shirt class Mat Pimp mentions, gi grips obviously were not an option during clinch and ground. Sometimes when we wore gi we obviously did grip when training with open hand strikes.
2/4/13 8:47 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead - 
12 - 

relson uses more gi grips


In what context are you speaking of?

In the t-shirt class Mat Pimp mentions, gi grips obviously were not an option during clinch and ground. Sometimes when we wore gi we obviously did grip when training with open hand strikes.

relson jj ,he likes to grab the gi.we only spent a month with him over a few yr period,but always went over gi grips,something that torrance dosent do much.

2/4/13 8:53 PM
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jakem
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yep." deeeeep hand in the collar.. pass the tag.. use other hand ,help yoself"..

2/4/13 9:47 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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Ah yes. When in gi he is very big on gripping, deep collar, belt, pants, etc. I got confused when people switch gears from SD/VT to straight jiujitsu.....and I didn't realize that about Torrace. INTERESTING!

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