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2/4/13 10:06 AM
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OCMikelob
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Lazer MMA -
Goal is to destroy your opponent. Groin shots and eye poke (gauge) are basic elements like in Jeet Kune Do. it's completely geared for real fighting, not for sport.
Destroying my opponent as quickly as possible is the ultimate goal. Have u studied Krav Lazer? If so, for how long and what was your experience? Phone Post
2/4/13 10:13 AM
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OCMikelob
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Sharkbait - Krav Maga is legit self defence esp with multiple attackers.
I trained 16 years ago and stopped 8 years ago to transition to bjj which was tough going from complete aggression to relaxing on the mat.
Great mental and physical exhaustion. Phone Post
Damn so you were in it for 8 years...very nice! I wouldn't wanna be trapped in a dark alley with you (without a gun and at a short distance lol)

Actually a lot of you guys sound like badasses. Just taking the time to share your thoughts not only educates me, but I'm sure there's lurkers out there that are curious too. The expense, as someone mentioned, will probably cause me to have to wait until the Summertime. But that's alright. I'm getting excited already because I'm ready to commit. Phone Post
2/4/13 10:14 AM
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Lazer MMA
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OCMikelob - 
Lazer MMA -
Goal is to destroy your opponent. Groin shots and eye poke (gauge) are basic elements like in Jeet Kune Do. it's completely geared for real fighting, not for sport.
Destroying my opponent as quickly as possible is the ultimate goal. Have u studied Krav Lazer? If so, for how long and what was your experience? Phone Post


Seek out the best school here:

http://www.kravmaga.com/locations/licensees-affiliates/krav-maga-worldwide-officially-certified-training-centers/

No I studied other MA's, I have friends though who have. It's a very efficient MA, probably the very best for real combat.
2/4/13 10:15 AM
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OCMikelob
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tiger07 - Do boxing and wrestling, or MMA.
Would boxing be better for self-defense than muay thai? Phone Post
2/4/13 10:16 AM
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OCMikelob
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Awesome Lazer...thanks! Phone Post
2/4/13 10:31 AM
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OCMikelob
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I can see how that's a problem. Being in a dojo and actually getting attacked are two different things. It's been mentioned that the mcdojo's out there don't train the mentality to go along with the brutality, so I'm so glad I started this thread. Thank you man! Phone Post
2/4/13 10:40 AM
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beanouno
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My mates an instructer. Seems to do well from it. Phone Post
2/4/13 10:43 AM
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Lazer MMA
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PrisonMattressPuncher - 

Krav Maga has a huge marketing machine behind. Where I think it is 'better' than most other martial arts practiced by the general populace, is in its aggressive, proactive mindset. It has some fairly decent basic techniques but once you get beyond that, it is basically traditional Japanese stlye Jiu-jitsu with a few strikes thrown in.

The bigggest roblem I have with it is that it is really marketed to women, and it gives all these Krav Maga soccer moms a false sense of confidence, like they are studying the best thing since sliced bread. It also tends to make them feel like "experts" on fighting and self-defense.



"It incorporates Western boxing punches, Karate kicks and knees, Greco-Roman wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu ground fighting, Jiu-jitsu throws and grappling, and most importantly, “bursting,” adapted from Wing Chun. This is a simultaneous defense/attack: instead of blocking an attack and then delivering a response, you block the attack and deliver a response at the same time, i. e., block with the left arm and push forward with the legs, striking with the right fist to the throat, all simultaneously.

Also stressed are attacks to vulnerable body parts: the eyes, throat, and groin. Attackers can expect testicular ruptures. Emphasis is also placed on disarming attackers with both knives and handguns, and turning these weapons on the attacker. It also exclusively trains hand-eye coordination, until defense becomes second nature and does not require thought."

Rated as the top form of self defense
http://listverse.com/2010/05/15/top-10-martial-arts-for-self-defense/

"When it comes to self defense Krav Maga is the SHIT! There are very few martial arts better suited to defend yourself from an attacker who may be threatening you with a knife or gun. Great for women looking to protect themselves from rape or other attacks, it emphasizes devastating attacks to the opponent’s vital areas, such as the groin and eyes, and encourages headbutts and the use of any available objects as weapons. This martial art features a three-step approach: Deal with the immediate threat, prevent the attacker from mounting a second offensive and then neutralize him.

"Krav Maga is a military hand-to-hand system developed in Isreal and used by various Israeli Security Forces, which assumes no quarter will be given, and emphasizes maximum threat nuetralization in a “real life” context."

Rated #3 here http://thesegoto11.wordpress.com/2008/12/02/top-eleven-best-self-defence-martial-arts/

Um, you were saying boss?
2/4/13 10:46 AM
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JoeVIP
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My Threads. I'm going to my first Krav Maga class tonight. I'm not competing anymore so I want something more realistic. Despite what most think on this site mma is not self defense. I'm more interested in the knife and gun defenses then the hand to hand. I'm curious to see how this goes. Been in martial arts for 20 years and can usually smell BS a mile away.

I'm still going to look into other knife, stick and gun defense stuff online or on dvd. Maybe some Dog brother stuff and some Tony Blaur stuff.
2/4/13 11:02 AM
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OCMikelob
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Joe, are you in SoCal? Just wondering which dojo you're going to if in the area. If not, disregard. But, I'm also curious how much are you paying per month and how often are your classes?

Have fun! Phone Post
2/4/13 11:03 AM
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OCMikelob
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Lazer MMA -
OCMikelob - 
Lazer MMA -
Goal is to destroy your opponent. Groin shots and eye poke (gauge) are basic elements like in Jeet Kune Do. it's completely geared for real fighting, not for sport.
Destroying my opponent as quickly as possible is the ultimate goal. Have u studied Krav Lazer? If so, for how long and what was your experience? Phone Post


Seek out the best school here:

http://www.kravmaga.com/locations/licensees-affiliates/krav-maga-worldwide-officially-certified-training-centers/

No I studied other MA's, I have friends though who have. It's a very efficient MA, probably the very best for real combat.
That link is just what I needed bro... Phone Post
2/4/13 11:26 AM
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jerky66
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Edited: 02/04/13 11:56 AM
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I did it for almost a year at a Krav Maga Worldwide school. I left with three months left on my contract. did not like it in the end. The guy who owns the place is a tough little dude but I think that is because of his wrestling background and has nothing to do with Krav.

Positives: Great workout in the bag classes. You can get in real good shape. They teach good striking with drills, mits, etc. They try to make it reality based.

Negatives: very limited technical stuff. For a while BJJ blue belts could go in and smoke those guys in sparring. It is also getting very commercialized. The place I was at started making you wear Krav gear(t-shirts, shorts, sweats, etc) to be able to work out or be in a class. even if you paid your dues they would not let you work out without krav gear. They just wanted to sell more stuff at the front counter. They also had very limited ground skills but hired a reputable bjj guy to teach a ground class once a week so could be better now. The actual krav classes I found strange because you had the potential to be paired up with a 50 year lady sometimes. I also think some of those guys who drink the Krav kool-aid walk around with a false sense of security. They have some dudes in those places who act like real tough guys. You don’t see that in MMA or good BJJ gyms because you are always forced to prove it and senior guys will always put you in your place. You do not have that element in Krav.

Overall it depends on the person. I think it has positives and negatives. Some of those places have the Krav classes, sparring, bag, & grappling so you can get a lot out of it. Be careful though because they will likely try ro rope you into a one year contract.
2/4/13 11:48 AM
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halfninja
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OCMikelob - 
halfninja - Krav Maga is a very simple art; there's only like 200+ movements/reactions. You learn those like 40 at a time (per level) and you basically drill them to death. The goal being muscle memory. The idea of 'Retsev' is to get you aggressive so you follow up your groin strike with a throat strike and that throat strike with an elbow and then reach that elbow over to the back of your opponent's head and knee him 3 or 4 times.

It's quick, it's violent and dirty. Not sure what the legal ramifications are on over use of force, or how many people get injured or die each year because they attempted to disarm a knifewielding/gunwielding assailant.

It's a great work out, and it'll definitely improve your reflexes. I found though that training aggression tends to make you a little more of an asshole in your personal life as well, call it bleedover.

You really have to believe in your instructor, your partners and your school because there's very few places to test your skills. There are no Krav Maga tournaments (they say because it's too dangerous); so you would have to pick fights or troll dark alleys looking to measure your skills. Some schools have very hard sparring but that is still nowhere near the actual intensity you would have fighting someone who wanted to kill you and that you didn't see twice a week for three years.

I liked it, but it's not the end all be all of martial arts.
Sounds awesome to me.

But you're saying training Krav Maga has the tendency to turn someone into a douchebag? Phone Post

Not a douchebag, but it can make you very aggressive. In something like BJJ, despite getting better you get your ass handed to you on a weekly basis by people better than you.

IN KM, you practice always being the victor. You start to believe your own hype, and you forget that your partner is throwing that wide looping hook on purpose.

There's no room for humility in the Krav Maga curriculum, IMHO.
2/4/13 11:49 AM
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Herman Munster
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I had the fortunate opportunity recently to train a day as an introduction to Krav Maga with Nir Maman,a guy who served in the Isralei Special Forces, Central Command Counter Terror Unit.  He's trained Special Forces from all over the world including United States (Army Special Forces, Delta, Marines Special Operations Command, etc) and I found it to be quite impressive.  At this point in my life, where I don't have ambition to train MMA, Muay Thai, etc, for sport, but still itch to train in something, I would be quite open to training Krav Maga.  Then I looked into seeing what's available near my location and found someone offering Privates at $900 for 10 hours, and went from being quite open to training it, to being fuck that shit.  Very costly to the bottom line.

2/4/13 11:54 AM
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jerky66
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halfninja - 
OCMikelob - 
halfninja - Krav Maga is a very simple art; there's only like 200+ movements/reactions. You learn those like 40 at a time (per level) and you basically drill them to death. The goal being muscle memory. The idea of 'Retsev' is to get you aggressive so you follow up your groin strike with a throat strike and that throat strike with an elbow and then reach that elbow over to the back of your opponent's head and knee him 3 or 4 times.

It's quick, it's violent and dirty. Not sure what the legal ramifications are on over use of force, or how many people get injured or die each year because they attempted to disarm a knifewielding/gunwielding assailant.

It's a great work out, and it'll definitely improve your reflexes. I found though that training aggression tends to make you a little more of an asshole in your personal life as well, call it bleedover.

You really have to believe in your instructor, your partners and your school because there's very few places to test your skills. There are no Krav Maga tournaments (they say because it's too dangerous); so you would have to pick fights or troll dark alleys looking to measure your skills. Some schools have very hard sparring but that is still nowhere near the actual intensity you would have fighting someone who wanted to kill you and that you didn't see twice a week for three years.

I liked it, but it's not the end all be all of martial arts.
Sounds awesome to me.

But you're saying training Krav Maga has the tendency to turn someone into a douchebag? Phone Post

Not a douchebag, but it can make you very aggressive. In something like BJJ, despite getting better you get your ass handed to you on a weekly basis by people better than you.

IN KM, you practice always being the victor. You start to believe your own hype, and you forget that your partner is throwing that wide looping hook on purpose.

There's no room for humility in the Krav Maga curriculum, IMHO.

Bingo!
2/4/13 12:04 PM
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OCMikelob
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halfninja -
OCMikelob - 
halfninja - Krav Maga is a very simple art; there's only like 200+ movements/reactions. You learn those like 40 at a time (per level) and you basically drill them to death. The goal being muscle memory. The idea of 'Retsev' is to get you aggressive so you follow up your groin strike with a throat strike and that throat strike with an elbow and then reach that elbow over to the back of your opponent's head and knee him 3 or 4 times.

It's quick, it's violent and dirty. Not sure what the legal ramifications are on over use of force, or how many people get injured or die each year because they attempted to disarm a knifewielding/gunwielding assailant.

It's a great work out, and it'll definitely improve your reflexes. I found though that training aggression tends to make you a little more of an asshole in your personal life as well, call it bleedover.

You really have to believe in your instructor, your partners and your school because there's very few places to test your skills. There are no Krav Maga tournaments (they say because it's too dangerous); so you would have to pick fights or troll dark alleys looking to measure your skills. Some schools have very hard sparring but that is still nowhere near the actual intensity you would have fighting someone who wanted to kill you and that you didn't see twice a week for three years.

I liked it, but it's not the end all be all of martial arts.
Sounds awesome to me.

But you're saying training Krav Maga has the tendency to turn someone into a douchebag? Phone Post

Not a douchebag, but it can make you very aggressive. In something like BJJ, despite getting better you get your ass handed to you on a weekly basis by people better than you.

IN KM, you practice always being the victor. You start to believe your own hype, and you forget that your partner is throwing that wide looping hook on purpose.

There's no room for humility in the Krav Maga curriculum, IMHO.
Well said! That's an interesting perspective that I would have never thought about. I would think there's gotta be some humble KM'ers that are willing and ready to efficiently handle business at the drop of a dime if needed, but I could be wrong. I see jerky agrees with what you said, so I'm sure you're point is very valid. Can anyone else speak on this?

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your point Phone Post
2/4/13 12:05 PM
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OCMikelob
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Herman Munster -

I had the fortunate opportunity recently to train a day as an introduction to Krav Maga with Nir Maman,a guy who served in the Isralei Special Forces, Central Command Counter Terror Unit.  He's trained Special Forces from all over the world including United States (Army Special Forces, Delta, Marines Special Operations Command, etc) and I found it to be quite impressive.  At this point in my life, where I don't have ambition to train MMA, Muay Thai, etc, for sport, but still itch to train in something, I would be quite open to training Krav Maga.  Then I looked into seeing what's available near my location and found someone offering Privates at $900 for 10 hours, and went from being quite open to training it, to being fuck that shit.  Very costly to the bottom line.

That's REALLY pricey. I'd say fuck that too, if that were the case. Phone Post
2/4/13 12:08 PM
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OCMikelob
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jerky66 - I did it for almost a year at a Krav Maga Worldwide school. I left with three months left on my contract. did not like it in the end. The guy who owns the place is a tough little dude but I think that is because of his wrestling background and has nothing to do with Krav.

Positives: Great workout in the bag classes. You can get in real good shape. They teach good striking with drills, mits, etc. They try to make it reality based.

Negatives: very limited technical stuff. For a while BJJ blue belts could go in and smoke those guys in sparring. It is also getting very commercialized. The place I was at started making you wear Krav gear(t-shirts, shorts, sweats, etc) to be able to work out or be in a class. even if you paid your dues they would not let you work out without krav gear. They just wanted to sell more stuff at the front counter. They also had very limited ground skills but hired a reputable bjj guy to teach a ground class once a week so could be better now. The actual krav classes I found strange because you had the potential to be paired up with a 50 year lady sometimes. I also think some of those guys who drink the Krav kool-aid walk around with a false sense of security. They have some dudes in those places who act like real tough guys. You don’t see that in MMA or good BJJ gyms because you are always forced to prove it and senior guys will always put you in your place. You do not have that element in Krav.

Overall it depends on the person. I think it has positives and negatives. Some of those places have the Krav classes, sparring, bag, & grappling so you can get a lot out of it. Be careful though because they will likely try ro rope you into a one year contract.
Very good stuff! I like to read the negatives so I can kinda expect the worst.

That's bullshit that they force you to buy gear, it's probably like $20-25 just for a shirt too. Interesting. Phone Post
2/4/13 12:25 PM
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djones
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Edited: 02/04/13 12:30 PM
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Remember this? I remember seeing this guy's adds and purchasing his fighting system. To be honest I actually liked it... dont know if it would work cause I prefer not to "disarm" kinves and guns...... got into a lot of fights when younger because at the time I was plugged into a gang, and I had one instance when a gun was put to my chest... there was no way in hell I couldve disarmed the guy even if I knew what to do because I was frozen with fear. Can't remember ever being that afraid any other time in my life. 

 

 http://scars.com/

 

 

2/4/13 12:33 PM
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Herman Munster
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Edited: 02/04/13 12:48 PM
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OCMikelob - 
Herman Munster -

I had the fortunate opportunity recently to train a day as an introduction to Krav Maga with Nir Maman,a guy who served in the Isralei Special Forces, Central Command Counter Terror Unit.  He's trained Special Forces from all over the world including United States (Army Special Forces, Delta, Marines Special Operations Command, etc) and I found it to be quite impressive.  At this point in my life, where I don't have ambition to train MMA, Muay Thai, etc, for sport, but still itch to train in something, I would be quite open to training Krav Maga.  Then I looked into seeing what's available near my location and found someone offering Privates at $900 for 10 hours, and went from being quite open to training it, to being fuck that shit.  Very costly to the bottom line.

That's REALLY pricey. I'd say fuck that too, if that were the case. Phone Post

 

Yep, but the introduction I had to Krav Maga was a pretty rare, fortunate and one time opportunity kind of occurrence.  I was fortunate to get that opportunity for free, well actually paid for by the company i work for, but still free for me.  I can't speak to the credentials that others have experienced in Krav Maga instructional, but I think all those questioning Krav Maga and going on about their Bjj in typical bjj fanboy elitest fashion, would have a very different take if they trained with this dude for even a day, on just what exactly Krav Maga is really about

http://www.ct707.com/index.php/about-ct707/about-nir-maman

 

Here is an article on the exposing of "frauds" in Krav Maga, Nir mentioned as one of the big contributors to the "exposing of fraudulent, misrepresentation and illegal activity" in the US, as it pertains to Krav Maga.  

http://www.prweb.com/releases/fakeselfdefense/instructors/prweb3646764.htm

2/4/13 12:38 PM
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BTR
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In what state do you live? There are legit guys and then the others. WIth the legit guys Krav Maga is great for self defense, though I wouldn't start it as an intro to MMA. The moves are basic and simple and designed to be learned and absorbed quickly (thus, why perfect for the short duration of a boot camp).

The better teachers don't just teach moves and technique but mentality for real life situations. I was mugged once and though I had also trained some Muay Thai and BJJ, it was the KM that instantly came to mind and my instincts kicked in to defend myself well. I was calm and collected (not gonna lie - I was scared but still able to control myself to deal with the situation). It was two guys and the things that were drilled into my head about multiple attackers etc really helped. That is something you WILL NOT learn in boxing, grappling, etc...

In San Fancisco there's a great KM school which also has grappling and maybe BJJ classes on the side for fun. There's one or two solid teachers in the NY/NJ area too.
2/4/13 12:39 PM
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JoeVIP
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OCMikelob -  Joe, are you in SoCal? Just wondering which dojo you're going to if in the area. If not, disregard. But, I'm also curious how much are you paying per month and how often are your classes?

Have fun! Phone Post

I'm in Nashville. I went to a gun range this weekend and right next door to it was Nashville Krav Maga. I have no idea what they charge yet I'll let you know after my 2 free classes and there sales pitch. I do know it's a Krav Maga worldwide place. I'll post my thoughts after tonight.
2/4/13 12:54 PM
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CaptainBurma
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In a word...YES! but you have to find the right school. I've traned in a bunch of stuff, since I was 8 years old...the flowery bs, as well as mma, muay thai, bjj, judo, kail...etc....AND Krav...I've just gotten back to bouncing in shitty chinatown nightclubs, where I'm the only security. I've had to disarm 2 guns, & a knife, as well as breaking up& sometimes getting in an average of 2 fights per night...in the past 8 months or so...& Krav techniques work...I see Krav as icing on the cake...get your base in a realistic striking art (boxing, muay thai), be proficient in grappling, familiarize yourself with sticks, knives, & guns, stay in shape & top it off with Krav...you should be good for most self defense scenarios...(haven't read the rest of thread)

2/4/13 1:04 PM
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ajl416az
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IMO, boxing is the best standup for self-defense because its simple and low risk.
you shouldn't stand on one leg in an environment where the opponent could be drunk and stumble into you, or you could be surrounded by people or on unsafe footing.
plus, punches are faster then kicks and knees, and you can throw them while running away

boxing and wrestling/judo is legitimately all you need if you want to learn how to beat anyone 1 on 1.
be able to throw hands on the outside, and throw him if he grabs you, and nobody without training can f with you

Well said! That's an interesting perspective that I would have never thought about. I would think there's gotta be some humble KM'ers that are willing and ready to efficiently handle business at the drop of a dime if needed, but I could be wrong. I see jerky agrees with what you said, so I'm sure you're point is very valid. Can anyone else speak on this?

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your point


what he is saying is that because Krav Maga guys don't typically get beat up and humbled in the gym, and it leads to overconfidence and the belief that you are actually the toughest guy around

when the toughest guy around would be someone who competes, because he is competing against trained killers, instead of learning how to totally overwhelm and overpower guys that don't know how to fight, which is 99% of the people who start fights
2/4/13 1:11 PM
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OCMikelob
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ajl416az - IMO, boxing is the best standup for self-defense because its simple and low risk.
you shouldn't stand on one leg in an environment where the opponent could be drunk and stumble into you, or you could be surrounded by people or on unsafe footing.
plus, punches are faster then kicks and knees, and you can throw them while running away

boxing and wrestling/judo is legitimately all you need if you want to learn how to beat anyone 1 on 1.
be able to throw hands on the outside, and throw him if he grabs you, and nobody without training can f with you

Well said! That's an interesting perspective that I would have never thought about. I would think there's gotta be some humble KM'ers that are willing and ready to efficiently handle business at the drop of a dime if needed, but I could be wrong. I see jerky agrees with what you said, so I'm sure you're point is very valid. Can anyone else speak on this?

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your point


what he is saying is that because Krav Maga guys don't typically get beat up and humbled in the gym, and it leads to overconfidence and the belief that you are actually the toughest guy around

when the toughest guy around would be someone who competes, because he is competing against trained killers, instead of learning how to totally overwhelm and overpower guys that don't know how to fight, which is 99% of the people who start fights
Overconfidence, that makes sense! Phone Post

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