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2/28/13 4:21 AM
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cm81
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Most ppl think self-defense is about beating up multiple armed opponents in bar or streetfights. Then they say Krav Maga is the best.

Rubbish.

True self-defense is about running away. The only time you can't run away, is when you've been grabbed or forced to the ground. This is why true self-defense is to learn a grappling art.

If you have to dispose of multiple armed opponents, then be realistic and use a weapon. Be prepared to get stabbed, which you probably won't see coming (hence making your Krav knife defense techniques obsolete), and to go to jail if you manage to win.

That said, Krav is fine if you want a quick and general/complete introduction into martial arts, without all the tradition. But don't fool yourself into thinking you are deadly, as all you know are the basics and you haven't put in the sparring/mat time that Muay Thai or BJJ guys have.
2/28/13 8:05 AM
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tiger07
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^^Agreed. I've known many a KM practitioner. Although it will give you a general start, and you may be able to take joe blow on the street quite easily, it really doesn't shape up to the 'live' arts (MT, BJJ, Wrestling etc). UFC 1, anyone?!
2/28/13 8:27 AM
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cm81
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tiger07 - ^^Agreed. I've known many a KM practitioner. Although it will give you a general start, and you may be able to take joe blow on the street quite easily, it really doesn't shape up to the 'live' arts (MT, BJJ, Wrestling etc). UFC 1, anyone?!
Exactly.

As an example, one only has to look at the "ground" techniques they teach in Krav. I've seen Krav guys do low percentage type of headlock (kesa gatame) escapes eg trying to scissor the head with legs.

This kind of stuff will give the Krav guy a false sense of confidence. Any experienced grappler, be it BJJ or judo will know it doesn't work on an experienced opponent. We know this because we put in the mat time. Krav guys don't.

Therein lies the problem with Krav. A lot of them are mistaken that they can handle anyone, but God's truth is they will get wrecked if they happen to pick a fight with a good Muay Thai guy or grappler. Phone Post
2/28/13 8:59 AM
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672
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I'VE been TEACHing KRAV MAGA 10 PLUS YEARS,BOXING KICKBOXING 20 YEARS,JUDO,BJJ WRESTLING 15 YEARS,MMA 20 PLUS YEARS,VIETNAM VET,30 YEARS LAW ENFORCEMENT.YOU CAN'T PAINT THE SAME PIC FOR ALL KRAV MAGA TEACHERS LOL OPEN YOUR MIND GRASSHOPPER.THE bad guy isn't usually a MARTIAL ARTIST UNLESS you breed that attitude,so the folks that take KM are not there to spar although some do they are there to survive.YOU HAVE SPORT TACTICS AND LIKE Jeremy Glick found out you have survival tactics.WAKE UP PEOPLE
2/28/13 9:07 AM
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Lazer MMA
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Edited: 02/28/13 9:11 AM
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TTT
2/28/13 9:10 AM
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Lazer MMA
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672 - I'VE been TEACHing KRAV MAGA 10 PLUS YEARS,BOXING KICKBOXING 20 YEARS,JUDO,BJJ WRESTLING 15 YEARS,MMA 20 PLUS YEARS,VIETNAM VET,30 YEARS LAW ENFORCEMENT.YOU CAN'T PAINT THE SAME PIC FOR ALL KRAV MAGA TEACHERS LOL OPEN YOUR MIND GRASSHOPPER.THE bad guy isn't usually a MARTIAL ARTIST UNLESS you breed that attitude,so the folks that take KM are not there to spar although some do they are there to survive.YOU HAVE SPORT TACTICS AND LIKE Jeremy Glick found out you have survival tactics.WAKE UP PEOPLE


FUCKIN THIS!

2/28/13 9:12 AM
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Lazer MMA
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cm81 - Most ppl think self-defense is about beating up multiple armed opponents in bar or streetfights. Then they say Krav Maga is the best.

Rubbish.

True self-defense is about running away. The only time you can't run away, is when you've been grabbed or forced to the ground. This is why true self-defense is to learn a grappling art.

If you have to dispose of multiple armed opponents, then be realistic and use a weapon. Be prepared to get stabbed, which you probably won't see coming (hence making your Krav knife defense techniques obsolete), and to go to jail if you manage to win.

That said, Krav is fine if you want a quick and general/complete introduction into martial arts, without all the tradition. But don't fool yourself into thinking you are deadly, as all you know are the basics and you haven't put in the sparring/mat time that Muay Thai or BJJ guys have.


I really don't know what to say except it's clear that the post you made is pure crap on every level almost.

"True self-defense is about running away"

I guess we can all leave the MA's and just do track?

While I was taught not to engage unless there was no choice I was put in that situation a few times (running no work) VS multiple combatants.

Also tell that PURE CRAP to the college girls (One In Four Women Will Be Raped Before Graduating College. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/06/one-in-four-women-will-be_n_706513.html)

I guess they just did not want to run. DERP!

Ignorant crap posts like yours are inexcusable especially on this forum!

I have a friend who I fought NHB with (same tourneys) long ago. He's became an expert in this art after. NHB there are a not that many people that stand a chance against him alive I'd guess. He's no spring chicken to boot.

0/10
2/28/13 10:24 AM
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jju
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Large Intestine - Well I was wrong. I just spoke with Jack Bolowskie, founder and head instructor at KravMagaDFW, and he tells me he started with Krav Maga Worldwide about 15 or so years ago, but a few years back he left to follow his teacher, John Whitman, who was forming Krav Maga Alliance. So it's Krav Maga Alliance now. Impressive lineage, I must say.

www.kravmagaalliance.com

John Whitman is the man. I did my instructor training under him in 2002-2003. Like others stated, KM is good if taught right. The problem is quality control. Training at KM Worldwide is top notch, however many of their affiliate instructors are a joke. They offer a 21 day instructor course in 3 different phases to karate instructors and others. Some of the people I got my cert with had no business teaching.

Others, while good instructors, get too caught up in the "lifestyle". Very Crossfit cultish.
Some seem to forget where the techniques come from and that it can be good to practice those arts individually. I always recommended students to train BJJ and required level 2 students to spar with my Muay Thai class.

The gun and knife defense training are the best I've seen.
2/28/13 10:55 AM
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OCMikelob
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Large Intestine - I attended my first class tonight. Man, that was a workout. I'll try to remember it and describe it as best I can.

We warmed up by jogging around the room with hands up, then moving sideways around the room with hands up, one way and then the other, then jumping jacks, then squats. Then we moved immediately into partnering up and slap-boxing, trying to slap your partners shoulders and prevent them from doing the same to you. Then the same thing, but trying to touch your partners knees. Then trying to step on your partners feet. Then free-for-all, trying to step on the feet of anyone in the room without getting stepped on. All of that was about 15 minutes.

At that point I was exhausted, and mercifully we did some stretching, loosening up.

Then we learned the basic fighting stance, and moving forward and backward, using proper footwork.

Then we practiced forward elbow strikes, putting the hips into it. We partnered up to throw elbows into pads, taking turns holding the pads.

Then we learned a downward elbow strike to the back of the head of an attacker lunging at you with his head down, partnered up, practiced dropping the elbow onto a pad with a twist of the hips, popping back up.

Next we learned throwing knees, partnered up, threw knees into bags, taking turns...

Then taking turns throwing as many knees into the pads as we could, as fast as we could.

By that point I didn't think I could go on any longer. I was dizzy, I could barely think straight or understand instructions...

Then we learned what I guess would be called a takedown defense, we partnered up and practiced defending against a tackle/takedown sort of thing.

Next we practiced the first three parts of the 360 degree defense, and then partnered up and practiced defending against big looping overhand punches.

Then we learned a defense against someone lunging at you with a knife, gaining control of the arm and neck, practiced with a partner...

I think that's most of it, I may be forgetting a thing or two. All in all it was about an hour, maybe an hour and fifteen.

But anyway, like I said, they're giving these classes for free right now while they're still getting the facility set up, so it was kind of an introductory session to give newcomers an idea of what Krav is about.

It was exhausting. I was soaked in sweat, my throat was sore from huffing and puffing. But I think I learned a thing or two, and it was fun. I'll be going to the rest of the free classes this week and next, I'm not sure how much longer they'll last after that. But I'll be signing up to pay when the time comes.

I give it a thumbs up.
It sounds like I'm gonna like it. I can't wait. Phone Post
2/28/13 10:58 AM
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OCMikelob
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Once again to the muay thai and jitz guys, I'm not looking to feature in the bloodsport remake. It's for self-defense and to get in shape...."running away" would be great but what if they're faster and they chase you? Phone Post
2/28/13 11:03 AM
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OCMikelob
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Lazer MMA -
cm81 - Most ppl think self-defense is about beating up multiple armed opponents in bar or streetfights. Then they say Krav Maga is the best.

Rubbish.

True self-defense is about running away. The only time you can't run away, is when you've been grabbed or forced to the ground. This is why true self-defense is to learn a grappling art.

If you have to dispose of multiple armed opponents, then be realistic and use a weapon. Be prepared to get stabbed, which you probably won't see coming (hence making your Krav knife defense techniques obsolete), and to go to jail if you manage to win.

That said, Krav is fine if you want a quick and general/complete introduction into martial arts, without all the tradition. But don't fool yourself into thinking you are deadly, as all you know are the basics and you haven't put in the sparring/mat time that Muay Thai or BJJ guys have.


I really don't know what to say except it's clear that the post you made is pure crap on every level almost.

"True self-defense is about running away"

I guess we can all leave the MA's and just do track?

While I was taught not to engage unless there was no choice I was put in that situation a few times (running no work) VS multiple combatants.

Also tell that PURE CRAP to the college girls (One In Four Women Will Be Raped Before Graduating College. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/06/one-in-four-women-will-be_n_706513.html)

I guess they just did not want to run. DERP!

Ignorant crap posts like yours are inexcusable especially on this forum!

I have a friend who I fought NHB with (same tourneys) long ago. He's became an expert in this art after. NHB there are a not that many people that stand a chance against him alive I'd guess. He's no spring chicken to boot.

0/10
I was thinking along the same lines with the RUN! self defense. Thanks Lazer. Phone Post
2/28/13 11:10 AM
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Lazer MMA
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NP OP
2/28/13 11:12 AM
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OCMikelob
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jju -
Large Intestine - Well I was wrong. I just spoke with Jack Bolowskie, founder and head instructor at KravMagaDFW, and he tells me he started with Krav Maga Worldwide about 15 or so years ago, but a few years back he left to follow his teacher, John Whitman, who was forming Krav Maga Alliance. So it's Krav Maga Alliance now. Impressive lineage, I must say.

www.kravmagaalliance.com

John Whitman is the man. I did my instructor training under him in 2002-2003. Like others stated, KM is good if taught right. The problem is quality control. Training at KM Worldwide is top notch, however many of their affiliate instructors are a joke. They offer a 21 day instructor course in 3 different phases to karate instructors and others. Some of the people I got my cert with had no business teaching.

Others, while good instructors, get too caught up in the "lifestyle". Very Crossfit cultish.
Some seem to forget where the techniques come from and that it can be good to practice those arts individually. I always recommended students to train BJJ and required level 2 students to spar with my Muay Thai class.

The gun and knife defense training are the best I've seen.
Good stuff jju!! 21 day training course for instructors? That's it? Wow, I'll have to keep an eye out for that when I'm ready to get going (financially). Thanks! Phone Post
2/28/13 11:20 AM
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OCMikelob
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672 - I'VE been TEACHing KRAV MAGA 10 PLUS YEARS,BOXING KICKBOXING 20 YEARS,JUDO,BJJ WRESTLING 15 YEARS,MMA 20 PLUS YEARS,VIETNAM VET,30 YEARS LAW ENFORCEMENT.YOU CAN'T PAINT THE SAME PIC FOR ALL KRAV MAGA TEACHERS LOL OPEN YOUR MIND GRASSHOPPER.THE bad guy isn't usually a MARTIAL ARTIST UNLESS you breed that attitude,so the folks that take KM are not there to spar although some do they are there to survive.YOU HAVE SPORT TACTICS AND LIKE Jeremy Glick found out you have survival tactics.WAKE UP PEOPLE
Nice! That's a lot of experience...you sound like a damn beast! AND you have a really good point about most attackers not being martial arts trained because that's not part of the culture in any of the arts, I'm sure.

Thanks man! Phone Post
2/28/13 11:23 AM
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OCMikelob
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672 may I ask in what state do you teach KM? I would love you to be my instructor when that time comes lol Phone Post
2/28/13 11:26 AM
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OCMikelob
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Large Intestine - Well I was wrong. I just spoke with Jack Bolowskie, founder and head instructor at KravMagaDFW, and he tells me he started with Krav Maga Worldwide about 15 or so years ago, but a few years back he left to follow his teacher, John Whitman, who was forming Krav Maga Alliance. So it's Krav Maga Alliance now. Impressive lineage, I must say.

www.kravmagaalliance.com
Does it look like you're gonna be forced to purchase gear to wear during class or anything like that, my good sir? By the way...are you sore as hell today or what? Hahaha Phone Post
2/28/13 11:28 AM
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OCMikelob
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JoeVIP - Large, they sell stuff but don't require you to wear it. There were people there in all types of clothes. Phone Post
Hey Joe, did you decide to stick with it? If so how's it going? What's the word, my brotha? Phone Post
2/28/13 12:06 PM
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Large Intestine
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OCMikelob -
Large Intestine - Well I was wrong. I just spoke with Jack Bolowskie, founder and head instructor at KravMagaDFW, and he tells me he started with Krav Maga Worldwide about 15 or so years ago, but a few years back he left to follow his teacher, John Whitman, who was forming Krav Maga Alliance. So it's Krav Maga Alliance now. Impressive lineage, I must say.

www.kravmagaalliance.com
Does it look like you're gonna be forced to purchase gear to wear during class or anything like that, my good sir? By the way...are you sore as hell today or what? Hahaha Phone Post
Nah, they don't seem to care what you wear, as long as you're comfortable and your shoes are appropriate for being on a mat.

Man, they wore my ass OUT! I was shocked at how physically demanding it was. I can feel it in my legs a little, but I wouldn't say I'm sore, thankfully. I'm surprised, I figured I'd be aching all over today. I've been doing a bit of bicycling lately, I guess that helped.

I was really impressed with it, I'll be back at it tonight. Phone Post
2/28/13 12:14 PM
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OCMikelob
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Large Intestine -
OCMikelob -
Large Intestine - Well I was wrong. I just spoke with Jack Bolowskie, founder and head instructor at KravMagaDFW, and he tells me he started with Krav Maga Worldwide about 15 or so years ago, but a few years back he left to follow his teacher, John Whitman, who was forming Krav Maga Alliance. So it's Krav Maga Alliance now. Impressive lineage, I must say.

www.kravmagaalliance.com
Does it look like you're gonna be forced to purchase gear to wear during class or anything like that, my good sir? By the way...are you sore as hell today or what? Hahaha Phone Post
Nah, they don't seem to care what you wear, as long as you're comfortable and your shoes are appropriate for being on a mat.

Man, they wore my ass OUT! I was shocked at how physically demanding it was. I can feel it in my legs a little, but I wouldn't say I'm sore, thankfully. I'm surprised, I figured I'd be aching all over today. I've been doing a bit of bicycling lately, I guess that helped.

I was really impressed with it, I'll be back at it tonight. Phone Post
Hell yea!! Awesome!! Phone Post
2/28/13 12:42 PM
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jju
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OCMikelob - 
jju -
Large Intestine - Well I was wrong. I just spoke with Jack Bolowskie, founder and head instructor at KravMagaDFW, and he tells me he started with Krav Maga Worldwide about 15 or so years ago, but a few years back he left to follow his teacher, John Whitman, who was forming Krav Maga Alliance. So it's Krav Maga Alliance now. Impressive lineage, I must say.

www.kravmagaalliance.com

John Whitman is the man. I did my instructor training under him in 2002-2003. Like others stated, KM is good if taught right. The problem is quality control. Training at KM Worldwide is top notch, however many of their affiliate instructors are a joke. They offer a 21 day instructor course in 3 different phases to karate instructors and others. Some of the people I got my cert with had no business teaching.

Others, while good instructors, get too caught up in the "lifestyle". Very Crossfit cultish.
Some seem to forget where the techniques come from and that it can be good to practice those arts individually. I always recommended students to train BJJ and required level 2 students to spar with my Muay Thai class.

The gun and knife defense training are the best I've seen.
Good stuff jju!! 21 day training course for instructors? That's it? Wow, I'll have to keep an eye out for that when I'm ready to get going (financially). Thanks! Phone Post

The instructor is supposed to be for people with KM experience, or people with experience in a similar art. In the time I was involved with KM Worldwide, I saw the standards for instructors slip. My first course had 13 and 8 of us passed. Later, I saw everyone passing.
2/28/13 1:40 PM
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672
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Like any business QUALITY CONTROL CAN BE A Roller coaster ride!John Whitman is a very good Instructor and has a book on KM when he was affliated with WORLDWIDE,nOW HE has his own ORGANIZATION.I don't get involved with the politics,just like to keep it real.I teach in Ronkonkoma,NY.If on vacation my doors are open See bbeltacademy.com.I've been in business 24 years.
2/28/13 2:15 PM
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Rip0ste
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OCMikelob - Can anyone suggest any legit instructors in the LA/Orange County area in Cali? Phone Post
There's a KM place over by John Wayne Airport - in Skypark Circle. Phone Post
2/28/13 2:31 PM
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Shanle929
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Commando Krav Maga is the one to do. Some gyms that offer Krav Maga has it more of just a fitness agenda. The Commando one is geared more towards self defense. Phone Post
2/28/13 2:37 PM
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672
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I agree human instintive reaction is going to revert to what basic or foundation you have built throughout years of practice.It depends on the practioner and there mission sport or survival and tactics to accomplish mission.PMP is on point not all people (unless your my student)will grasp the mindset to defend advance technique's.Yes KM has many techniques from different of martial arts but is more a defensive tactics then MA.
2/28/13 6:32 PM
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cm81
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OCMikelob -
Lazer MMA -
cm81 - Most ppl think self-defense is about beating up multiple armed opponents in bar or streetfights. Then they say Krav Maga is the best.

Rubbish.

True self-defense is about running away. The only time you can't run away, is when you've been grabbed or forced to the ground. This is why true self-defense is to learn a grappling art.

If you have to dispose of multiple armed opponents, then be realistic and use a weapon. Be prepared to get stabbed, which you probably won't see coming (hence making your Krav knife defense techniques obsolete), and to go to jail if you manage to win.

That said, Krav is fine if you want a quick and general/complete introduction into martial arts, without all the tradition. But don't fool yourself into thinking you are deadly, as all you know are the basics and you haven't put in the sparring/mat time that Muay Thai or BJJ guys have.


I really don't know what to say except it's clear that the post you made is pure crap on every level almost.

"True self-defense is about running away"

I guess we can all leave the MA's and just do track?

While I was taught not to engage unless there was no choice I was put in that situation a few times (running no work) VS multiple combatants.

Also tell that PURE CRAP to the college girls (One In Four Women Will Be Raped Before Graduating College. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/06/one-in-four-women-will-be_n_706513.html)

I guess they just did not want to run. DERP!

Ignorant crap posts like yours are inexcusable especially on this forum!

I have a friend who I fought NHB with (same tourneys) long ago. He's became an expert in this art after. NHB there are a not that many people that stand a chance against him alive I'd guess. He's no spring chicken to boot.

0/10
I was thinking along the same lines with the RUN! self defense. Thanks Lazer. Phone Post
Did you guys actually read my post? Where did I say that running was always a viable option?? WHERE?

I said the only time you can't run is when you are grabbed, or forced to the ground. Which is a situation which involves grappling. Not some BS "reality based" system.

You have to be realistic. If you HAVE to fight a group of armed thugs... You are probably going to get really hurt, die or get a knife in the liver. Fact is that most ppl who get stabbed in fights NEVER saw the knife coming... Which negates almost all the knife defenses Krav guys practice.

This is true reality. Not a bunch of jokers training in a "soldier" art and pretending to take apart multiple armed assailantsl barehanded.

If I was so paranoid that I had to deal with such situations I would learn an FMA and carry a weapon, or even a gun (which still has its problems with speed of deployment, watch Die Less Often 2). Phone Post

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