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UnderGround Forums >> Why MMA Has Not Flourished In Chinese Society


2/2/13 5:54 PM
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BadrMilk
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Because "Made in China". Phone Post
2/2/13 5:56 PM
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Metafour
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MdGeist - 

I dispute that China is the birthplace of martial arts.


Looks like it is either Egypt of Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts_timeline

2/2/13 6:07 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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dtmuniversal - 
ChaosOverkill - 
Hessian - Wow, lots of trashy racist in this thread.

Chinese is an ethnicity Asian is a race China doesn't do itself any favours with its own indoctrinated hate and superiority complex You don't get that with other Asian ethnicities (for the most part)

You're kidding me right? The Japanese think they are the holy grail of all races, much like the Nazis were.

Notice "for the most part" in my message, yes the Japanese have their own problems in that regard. But to deny China does is absurd

2/2/13 7:00 PM
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cm81
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dtmuniversal -
Kinkle - 
cm81 - 
Kinkle - You just generalized 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE, 20% of the world population. Yes you are very stupid.
I get it... China pride. That's why you can't read between the lines of what I said.

Let 's make it clear. I never criticized the Chinese. I pointed out differences between the culture and that of the Japanese, but you've gone full small man syndrome and resorted to telling me shit that I've insulted 20% of the population etc...

When I discuss the issue of the Mongol invasion, it is not that the Japanese were superior in honor that they fought one to one. It was a point I was making about the practicality of the Chinese ppl and other cultures compared to the Japanese, who seem to appreciate the idea of duelling more than other asian cultures.

Look, at the end of the day, get back to me when MMA explodes in popularity in China. Phone Post

No China pride here, many Chinese people have no manners, respect, etc. I will agree that Japanese are much more respectful than other Asian groups. That said, my problem is how you generalized 20% of the WORLDS population in a couple sentences, that is ridiculous.

This.

I agree that mainland Chinese people in general act like barbarians, but that doesn't mean you can generalize entire Chinese populations, even ones in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau, who live just like Westerners, as people who "don't have warrior spirit". DAFUQ?
I think you guys really need to re-read my post and not jump to conclusions that I'm espousing racist views on Japanese superiority.

As I've said multiple times already, the Chinese are a survivor race... They are tough and hardy, much like the Koreans.

When I talk about the concept of "warrior spirit", it is not a statement that the Chinese lack this. What I was referring to was the general Japanese deep rooted obsession over this, as a legacy of Bushido. You cannot deny that the Chinese are a generally more practical ppl with little time or obsession over such matters.

As for me generalizing this to all Chinese ppl, the topic was on why the general China (the country, not the people) public hasn't caught onto MMA yet. I was referring to cultural differences, in China. However, in other countries with large Chinese populations, say Singapore, MMA is exploding. Phone Post
2/2/13 8:09 PM
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Wasa-B
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Anderson Silva isnt black...
2/2/13 8:19 PM
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BobbyDigital420
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Kung fu is the superior art. Phone Post
2/2/13 8:20 PM
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Publicnoose
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Not true every society that has had a need for self defense has created a fighting style since the beginning of time the American Indians and Mayans had a fighting technique that the white man never had seen Phone Post
2/2/13 8:28 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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ImA2TimeLoser - Because most of their "martial arts" are bullshit Phone Post
Hell yeah.

You get punched in the fucking face and you'll find out real quick them karate chops don't do you no good.

America! Phone Post
2/2/13 8:44 PM
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rundymc
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cm81 - 
rundymc -
cm81 - 
ImA2TimeLoser - Because most of their "martial arts" are bullshit Phone Post
This.

Chinese martial art culture = fancy acrobatic or mystical striking (Shaolin gung fu, wing chun, praying mantis etc)

Japanese martial art culture = grappling (jujitsu, judo)

Also, the Chinese have less emphasis on warrior spirit, honour etc. They are a people with not much time or respect for/to appreciate such a concept, or for activities which are about this. Sun Tzu's art of war is about winning, period.

The Japanese on the other hand have been all about budo, bushido for centuries. Prior to the Mongol invasions, the samurai even fought one to one on the battlefield by calling each other out. The Chinese would never do such things.

MMA will never take off in China. It is obvious to anyone who understands the culture there. Phone Post

That's.... somewhat inaccurate. I mean, it seems like you're looking at the respective cultures from a highly romanticized point of view.

Anyway, my perspective on it, living in Singapore, being half Chinese, and knowing plenty of Jap and Chinese people is... they're pretty much the same, lol. Generally reserved, generally disciplined, generally dedicated to what they're doing.

There is nothing inherent in Chinese culture that de-emphasizes "warrior spirit" and "honor". Hell, you outright need some of that shit to survive as a lower-middle class adult living in a Chinese city. Life in Hong-Kong and Shenzhen is fucking brutal, far beyond anything in a place like Singapore.

But yes, martial arts isn't big in China. It's a weird thought, considering so many people figure it's the birthplace of martial arts (not true, it was Kerala/India), but you'd be hard-pressed to find a PRC with formal training in my experience.

Here's the wild card. I reckon if the government ever made a push for MMA, they'd have high level Chinese contenders in just over a decade. For now, it's a small BJJ/Sanshou/MMA scene that's slowly but steadily growing. Watch out for talent out there.
Hang on there, and don't misconstrue what I was saying... I wasn't saying that the Chinese have no "warrior" mentality. They are a tough and hardy people, just like the Koreans. They continue to be a "survivor" race, as you have mentioned, this is reflected in life in HK/singapore/china... dog eat dog, survival of the fittest.

But there is a clear difference in terms of how Chinese and Japanese people have viewed warfare, and warrior culture, throughout the ages.

Like I mentioned earlier, the Mongol invasions of Japan. The Japanese couldn't deal with them as they had dueled one to one for years, even on the battlefield. There is a concept of "glorified and honorable battle" that other cultures simply don't have.

MMA fluorished in Japan as it is a natural extension of ideas encompassed in Bushido. Add to that their martial art culture which has always involved grappling (except for karate is Okinawan and "chinese").

FRAT. Phone Post

Ah noted bro, but still, in current contexts I think it has little to do with whether or not Chinese people (nationality, and perhaps ethnicity) will find success in the higher levels of MMA.
2/2/13 8:50 PM
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rundymc
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cm81 - 
dtmuniversal -
cm81 - 
ImA2TimeLoser - Because most of their "martial arts" are bullshit Phone Post
This.

Chinese martial art culture = fancy acrobatic or mystical striking (Shaolin gung fu, wing chun, praying mantis etc)

Japanese martial art culture = grappling (jujitsu, judo)

Also, the Chinese have less emphasis on warrior spirit, honour etc. They are a people with not much time or respect for/to appreciate such a concept, or for activities which are about this. Sun Tzu's art of war is about winning, period.

The Japanese on the other hand have been all about budo, bushido for centuries. Prior to the Mongol invasions, the samurai even fought one to one on the battlefield by calling each other out. The Chinese would never do such things.

MMA will never take off in China. It is obvious to anyone who understands the culture there. Phone Post

lol. wow.

I bet you've never trained any Chinese martial art. Compared to the modern arts, Chinese martial arts is some of the hardest shit you could learn. And you think that doesn't take dedication and discipline?

GTFO please.

And yeah... I hope you fight a legit Wing Chun guy sometime and get hit in the chest repeatedly... Chinese Kung Fu is not a joke, but in the sense of MMA it isn't very effective.

Oh yeah, and don't act like the Japanese arts didn't come from Chinese martial arts.
I never implied that Japanese culture or martial art is superior to Chinese.

Grappling is intrinsic to MMA. Grappling is not part of the general Chinese martial art psyche (pls don't bring up Chin Na or grappling hands of praying mantis gung fu). The Chinese have a general distaste for grappling... Their heroes are Jet Li and Bruce Lee.

Case in point: Tiequan Zhang. When Tiequan Zhang won his first UFC fight with a guillotine, Chinese forum'ers were full of criticism, some even saying he won in a "dirty" manner and some even saying they would punch him if they saw him. Phone Post

BJJ and MMA is VERY new on the mainland in terms of training.

Hong Kong has two major gyms afaik, Grips and Kowloon BJJ, great places. But I can't think of many places on the mainland aside from China TT.

I'm sure those Chinese dudes were just uneducated on the sport.

As a side note, it's not cultural. If it did, I'd have no training partners here in Singapore, lol.
2/2/13 9:14 PM
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Josh Davies
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Macau has had a few mma events there, i streamed one live about 6 months ago, had a few Aussie fighters against the Chinese, was a good event.

I think martial arts originates from china. Sun tzu! Phone Post
2/2/13 9:21 PM
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dutchdog1
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godzilla fkd it up wn he was there a few years back lol
2/2/13 9:33 PM
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dtmuniversal
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rundymc - 
cm81 - 
dtmuniversal -
cm81 - 
ImA2TimeLoser - Because most of their "martial arts" are bullshit Phone Post
This.

Chinese martial art culture = fancy acrobatic or mystical striking (Shaolin gung fu, wing chun, praying mantis etc)

Japanese martial art culture = grappling (jujitsu, judo)

Also, the Chinese have less emphasis on warrior spirit, honour etc. They are a people with not much time or respect for/to appreciate such a concept, or for activities which are about this. Sun Tzu's art of war is about winning, period.

The Japanese on the other hand have been all about budo, bushido for centuries. Prior to the Mongol invasions, the samurai even fought one to one on the battlefield by calling each other out. The Chinese would never do such things.

MMA will never take off in China. It is obvious to anyone who understands the culture there. Phone Post

lol. wow.

I bet you've never trained any Chinese martial art. Compared to the modern arts, Chinese martial arts is some of the hardest shit you could learn. And you think that doesn't take dedication and discipline?

GTFO please.

And yeah... I hope you fight a legit Wing Chun guy sometime and get hit in the chest repeatedly... Chinese Kung Fu is not a joke, but in the sense of MMA it isn't very effective.

Oh yeah, and don't act like the Japanese arts didn't come from Chinese martial arts.
I never implied that Japanese culture or martial art is superior to Chinese.

Grappling is intrinsic to MMA. Grappling is not part of the general Chinese martial art psyche (pls don't bring up Chin Na or grappling hands of praying mantis gung fu). The Chinese have a general distaste for grappling... Their heroes are Jet Li and Bruce Lee.

Case in point: Tiequan Zhang. When Tiequan Zhang won his first UFC fight with a guillotine, Chinese forum'ers were full of criticism, some even saying he won in a "dirty" manner and some even saying they would punch him if they saw him. Phone Post

BJJ and MMA is VERY new on the mainland in terms of training.

Hong Kong has two major gyms afaik, Grips and Kowloon BJJ, great places. But I can't think of many places on the mainland aside from China TT.

I'm sure those Chinese dudes were just uneducated on the sport.

As a side note, it's not cultural. If it did, I'd have no training partners here in Singapore, lol.

There's actually Triquest MMA, a new one called... damn name slipped my mind right now but its right at Causeway Bay... Cung Le and Jessica C. stopped by there. There's "Keilin" BJJ as well... that's about it. Doesn't matter though because they're not turning out any top talent any time soon.
2/2/13 9:52 PM
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729
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as someone who has been to both japan and china.....i agree with cm81.
2/4/13 3:45 AM
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Dbulletproof
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Western dude living in Hong Kong for a good few yearsI can add to this discussion after work.

2/4/13 6:37 AM
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NoNameBias
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We were brought up on Chinese film... The tree climbing, fence jumping shit... Now is their time to shine... Missing in action bs.
2/4/13 7:11 AM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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It's hard to fight with a belly full of dog.
2/4/13 7:54 AM
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Chaos in China
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Echo Bike USA, LLC, Director of Sales

for later

2/4/13 10:04 AM
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The Sauce
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India Phone Post
2/4/13 10:55 AM
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bcolflesh
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WhoppersJr - Chinese MMA is too dangerous, as the fighters are constantly slipping on the spit covered canvas

Lots of people pretending to have insight into Chinese culture and one guy who actually does!
2/4/13 10:22 PM
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Dbulletproof
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Alright, not a "guru" of EY standards but here are a few factors that I believe play into it (and again, I'm not a expert, just what I've picked up from the general population in HK and China)

1. Old school - one style, that's my style, no other style type thinking

2. Everytime I go to watch Legend FC the crowd laugh when they reset them in the centre in guard position, you can hear them laugh and say 'that's gay' etc. therefore, they don't have much knowledge of the ground game, as alluded to in some earlier posts, there's the 'men fight standing' idea.

3. The majority of people over here just flat aren't interested in something that does not provide them instant entertainment. In Hong Kong especially, people are obsessed with Iphones, tablets and playing video games. They work hours on end and afterwards they seem to just want to zone out on something mindless rather than participate in something that requires focused observation.

4. No marketable Chinese stars as of yet, that's a big one.

5. After showing MMA to a large number of people here, many discuss how they had a similar concept hundreds of years ago when people of different styles would fight in a sort of pre-MMA, MMA. However this only really includes various stand up forms of martial arts, with little to no groundwork.

6. Training in HK is expensive. Some of the gyms have been mentioned before, but the biggest MMA gym is Epic MMA. The lack of prices on the website tells you something about the cost. (It's located in Central, which is incredibly expensive, therefore in order to pay their rent, they have to charge the students a shitload)

local old school type gyms (boxing, Muay Thai, Karate etc.) have some good fighters in single styles (there's a thriving Muay Thai community here), but the only guys who can really afford to train legit MMA are usually expat bankers (Generalization for sure, but it's hard to be a hungry fighter when you wake up in silk pyjamas). And those guys are more there for ego, rather than legitimate competition.

7. When they had UFC Macau, the whole thing was a fucking shambles. They had one kiosk for beer, for the whole stadium and three people serving on it. The queue for beer was ridiculous and people were raging at the bar staff who just crumbled under the pressure. One dude jumped teh queue and started pouring everyone's beer in the crowd as the staff just lost their shit. (wherever that guy is on Earth right now, I salute you).

The marketing over here was utter shit and half the stadium was curtained off. A lot of the people in there were given tickets by the casinos and they didn't have a clue what was going on. There were loads of pumped up westerners there, who were loving it, but the majority of the local audience were really bemused by it, with lots leaving the stadium before the end. IMO it was a missed opportunity, if it were marketed correctly, it could have been massive... and the dude who was in charge of it needs firing. If BLAF's reading this, give me a job!

Sorry for teh FRAT, but them's the breaks.
2/4/13 10:28 PM
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bcolflesh
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Great insight on the Macau show, thanks for posting!
2/4/13 10:33 PM
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Dbulletproof
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Heel Hooker - Maybe they're just more civilized and don't like fighting.

Must... not.... bite!
2/4/13 10:43 PM
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rockwell
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MdGeist -

I dispute that China is the birthplace of martial arts.

Correct it's Glasgow. Phone Post
2/4/13 11:15 PM
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Wasa-B
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where does OP get his 2 billion figure?

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