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UnderGround Forums >> Why MMA Has Not Flourished In Chinese Society


2/4/13 11:29 PM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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Historically the chinese created their martial arts to compete against other nations who were always less skilled but always physically superior. When they fight an equally skilled opponent, the chinese dont have a chance in hell. Inferior people imo.
2/4/13 11:30 PM
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TheOtherWhiteFlu
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China sucks at MMA because the government doesn't consider a UFC championship as prestigious (compared to olympic medals). Their sports system is aimed at one thing - maximizing the number of gold medals they get at the summer olympics (with any world championships a second concern).

If MMA became an olympic sport with a bunch of weight classes (read: more medal opportunities for a given training program vs team sports), they'd be a powerhouse inside one 4 year cycle.
2/4/13 11:32 PM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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Hmm....i didn't know whites are #2 most numerous people.
2/4/13 11:35 PM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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TheOtherWhiteFlu - China sucks at MMA because the government doesn't consider a UFC championship as prestigious (compared to olympic medals). Their sports system is aimed at one thing - maximizing the number of gold medals they get at the summer olympics (with any world championships a second concern).

If MMA became an olympic sport with a bunch of weight classes (read: more medal opportunities for a given training program vs team sports), they'd be a powerhouse inside one 4 year cycle.

As true as that is, it has just as much or more to do with them being a physically weak and inferior people.
2/5/13 1:03 AM
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kao
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2/5/13 1:09 AM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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Why did shaolin go from a martial art to whats basically a theatrical dance?
2/5/13 1:39 AM
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phdinmma
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST -
TheOtherWhiteFlu - China sucks at MMA because the government doesn't consider a UFC championship as prestigious (compared to olympic medals). Their sports system is aimed at one thing - maximizing the number of gold medals they get at the summer olympics (with any world championships a second concern).

If MMA became an olympic sport with a bunch of weight classes (read: more medal opportunities for a given training program vs team sports), they'd be a powerhouse inside one 4 year cycle.

As true as that is, it has just as much or more to do with them being a physically weak and inferior people.
Do you have any idea why they'd be "physically inferior"? Phone Post
2/5/13 2:04 AM
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Mayweedz
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the state of MMA in China is most likely like the state of MMA in the US in the early 90s. Except now we are comparing it against current MMA levels which are much higher and professional. You guys are too young to remember when no one thought an American could possibly beat a Brazilian, or when MMA in the US was about to disappear overnight.

Half of you guys are pretty culturally ignorant and foolish. You stereotype cultures pretty quickly when much of the polish of a society is based on the economics. Money and the education and the polish that it provides changes everything. The "Barbarian" talk really leaves me aghast. You talk as though you are in the know and are so well traveled and knowledgeable, but you sound pretty ethnocentric.

Take the North and South Koreans, they are virtually culturally identical. Difference in mannerisms is in the access in wealth and education. Even compare Korea, or Taiwan, or Singapore 20 years ago prior to their economic boom to now. When I visited Taiwan decades ago, it was pretty rough. Go there now and they are more friendly, outgoing, and polite than the average Westerner. In fact I could argue they are more friendly on a non-superficial level than the average Japanese.

Go to a really poor area in Detroit or Chicago or anywhere else for that matter where people have to really scramble to survive or have any opportunities and let's see how "civilized" your fellow neighbors are.
2/5/13 2:13 AM
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Otsuka
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST - Why did shaolin go from a martial art to whats basically a theatrical dance?

I'm not much of a history buff but... cultural revolution?
2/5/13 2:22 AM
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Dbulletproof
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Otsuka - 
Bisping KOd by CHRIST - Why did shaolin go from a martial art to whats basically a theatrical dance?

I'm not much of a history buff but... cultural revolution?

Otsuka sighting!


VTFU.
2/5/13 2:28 AM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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phdinmma - 
Bisping KOd by CHRIST -
TheOtherWhiteFlu - China sucks at MMA because the government doesn't consider a UFC championship as prestigious (compared to olympic medals). Their sports system is aimed at one thing - maximizing the number of gold medals they get at the summer olympics (with any world championships a second concern).

If MMA became an olympic sport with a bunch of weight classes (read: more medal opportunities for a given training program vs team sports), they'd be a powerhouse inside one 4 year cycle.

As true as that is, it has just as much or more to do with them being a physically weak and inferior people.
Do you have any idea why they'd be "physically inferior"? Phone Post

Genetic inferiority.
2/5/13 2:28 AM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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phdinmma - 
Bisping KOd by CHRIST -
TheOtherWhiteFlu - China sucks at MMA because the government doesn't consider a UFC championship as prestigious (compared to olympic medals). Their sports system is aimed at one thing - maximizing the number of gold medals they get at the summer olympics (with any world championships a second concern).

If MMA became an olympic sport with a bunch of weight classes (read: more medal opportunities for a given training program vs team sports), they'd be a powerhouse inside one 4 year cycle.

As true as that is, it has just as much or more to do with them being a physically weak and inferior people.
Do you have any idea why they'd be "physically inferior"? Phone Post

Genetic inferiority.
2/5/13 4:34 AM
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rundymc
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST - 
TheOtherWhiteFlu - China sucks at MMA because the government doesn't consider a UFC championship as prestigious (compared to olympic medals). Their sports system is aimed at one thing - maximizing the number of gold medals they get at the summer olympics (with any world championships a second concern).

If MMA became an olympic sport with a bunch of weight classes (read: more medal opportunities for a given training program vs team sports), they'd be a powerhouse inside one 4 year cycle.

As true as that is, it has just as much or more to do with them being a physically weak and inferior people.

Man, those Olympic lifting medalists must have really overcome a lot, hoisting 220kg overhead with shit genetics :D
2/5/13 4:36 AM
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rundymc
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Mayweedz - the state of MMA in China is most likely like the state of MMA in the US in the early 90s. Except now we are comparing it against current MMA levels which are much higher and professional. You guys are too young to remember when no one thought an American could possibly beat a Brazilian, or when MMA in the US was about to disappear overnight.

Half of you guys are pretty culturally ignorant and foolish. You stereotype cultures pretty quickly when much of the polish of a society is based on the economics. Money and the education and the polish that it provides changes everything. The "Barbarian" talk really leaves me aghast. You talk as though you are in the know and are so well traveled and knowledgeable, but you sound pretty ethnocentric.

Take the North and South Koreans, they are virtually culturally identical. Difference in mannerisms is in the access in wealth and education. Even compare Korea, or Taiwan, or Singapore 20 years ago prior to their economic boom to now. When I visited Taiwan decades ago, it was pretty rough. Go there now and they are more friendly, outgoing, and polite than the average Westerner. In fact I could argue they are more friendly on a non-superficial level than the average Japanese.

Go to a really poor area in Detroit or Chicago or anywhere else for that matter where people have to really scramble to survive or have any opportunities and let's see how "civilized" your fellow neighbors are.

This guy knows his shit.
2/5/13 8:57 AM
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cm81
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Dbulletproof - Alright, not a "guru" of EY standards but here are a few factors that I believe play into it (and again, I'm not a expert, just what I've picked up from the general population in HK and China)

1. Old school - one style, that's my style, no other style type thinking

2. Everytime I go to watch Legend FC the crowd laugh when they reset them in the centre in guard position, you can hear them laugh and say 'that's gay' etc. therefore, they don't have much knowledge of the ground game, as alluded to in some earlier posts, there's the 'men fight standing' idea.

3. The majority of people over here just flat aren't interested in something that does not provide them instant entertainment. In Hong Kong especially, people are obsessed with Iphones, tablets and playing video games. They work hours on end and afterwards they seem to just want to zone out on something mindless rather than participate in something that requires focused observation.

4. No marketable Chinese stars as of yet, that's a big one.

5. After showing MMA to a large number of people here, many discuss how they had a similar concept hundreds of years ago when people of different styles would fight in a sort of pre-MMA, MMA. However this only really includes various stand up forms of martial arts, with little to no groundwork.

6. Training in HK is expensive. Some of the gyms have been mentioned before, but the biggest MMA gym is Epic MMA. The lack of prices on the website tells you something about the cost. (It's located in Central, which is incredibly expensive, therefore in order to pay their rent, they have to charge the students a shitload)

local old school type gyms (boxing, Muay Thai, Karate etc.) have some good fighters in single styles (there's a thriving Muay Thai community here), but the only guys who can really afford to train legit MMA are usually expat bankers (Generalization for sure, but it's hard to be a hungry fighter when you wake up in silk pyjamas). And those guys are more there for ego, rather than legitimate competition.

7. When they had UFC Macau, the whole thing was a fucking shambles. They had one kiosk for beer, for the whole stadium and three people serving on it. The queue for beer was ridiculous and people were raging at the bar staff who just crumbled under the pressure. One dude jumped teh queue and started pouring everyone's beer in the crowd as the staff just lost their shit. (wherever that guy is on Earth right now, I salute you).

The marketing over here was utter shit and half the stadium was curtained off. A lot of the people in there were given tickets by the casinos and they didn't have a clue what was going on. There were loads of pumped up westerners there, who were loving it, but the majority of the local audience were really bemused by it, with lots leaving the stadium before the end. IMO it was a missed opportunity, if it were marketed correctly, it could have been massive... and the dude who was in charge of it needs firing. If BLAF's reading this, give me a job!

Sorry for teh FRAT, but them's the breaks.
Great post.

UFC, with all its $ and "experience" is barking up the wrong tree, as far as thinking that MMA will explode in China.

It won't.

And it won't in India either.

Like I've said numerous times, the general China public believe that real fighting is standup striking. It's due to media exposure, cultural and national identity reasons. They don't appreciate grappling. They may go watch a UFC for the spectacle, but after seeing the ground game they will get bored and leave. They also have no time or interest in such events ... It's not in their culture to pay to watch duelling combat sports.

One FC has it right... They know what the ppl want, they know the countries who do appreciate MMA (Singapore, Phillipines). They have modified the ruleset to allow soccer kicks, because without this the Asian crowd will never feel it is realistic in any way. They use a lot of talent from local gyms, eg Evolve in Singapore, Team Lakay in Phillipines, and in their last show in Malaysia they used many of their local muay thai guys. Phone Post
2/5/13 9:00 AM
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Zaph
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MdGeist -

I dispute that China is the birthplace of martial arts.

Agreed. I also dispute that China is the center of all Asian history. Phone Post
2/5/13 9:50 AM
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Yama-Arashi
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ChaosOverkill - 
Hessian - Wow, lots of trashy racist in this thread.

Chinese is an ethnicity Asian is a race China doesn't do itself any favours with its own indoctrinated hate and superiority complex You don't get that with other Asian ethnicities (for the most part)

What kind of "culturally" indoctrinated hate specifically are you talking about?
2/5/13 9:51 AM
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trem
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The 2013 RUFF China Super Fight event happened over the weekend. Rodrigo Caporal won the superfight over Wu Haotian by armbar - and RMB1 million (USD158K)!

http://www.ruffchina.com/us

2/5/13 10:41 AM
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Son of Neckbone
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phdinmma - 
mnbvcxzchewy - 1 - sports for kids in general are shunned. kids are pushed academically (memorization) 12+ hours a day, 6 days a week. you dont see kids playing outside or smiling/laughing except on sunday afternoon.

2 - China has really only been open and semi-free about 20 years. the parents of todays youth were eating rice and tree bark 30 years ago. need another generation and more middle class before the kids have more time for things outside of work.
1. That's not true. Chinese kids play badminton, Bball, pingpong, run track, and most schools in shanghai take all the kids to a public swimming pool at least once a week.

2. You are right about the nutrition thing. 95% of Chinese kids are taller, stronger, and fatter than their parents. The revolution set them back maybe a hundred years. Phone Post

A patient of mine routinely goes to Japan and Taiwan for some sort of nuclear engineering. He's an inch or two over 6 ft and I asked him how it felt to be the tallest person in the nation.

He mentioned the same thing you did, that almost every kid was clearly taller and more muscular than their parents in Taiwan, and in Japan both the kids were bigger than their parents and the parents bigger than their grandparents.

Clearly economics plays a huge role in the quality of athletes a nation produces simply because you don't play sports if you are scrabbling on a daily basis simply for food and shelter.

Ultimately it comes down to a #s game, and if half the population is Asian, at some point this ratio will balance out once a clear middle class is established.
2/5/13 10:47 AM
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Otsuka
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cm81 - "Like I've said numerous times, the general China public believe that real fighting is standup striking. It's due to media exposure, cultural and national identity reasons. They don't appreciate grappling."

It's not that they don't appreciate the grappling. It's more because it is not "Chinese", and they feel that it's a loss of face to lose to a technique that is not of Chinese origin.

Case in point, a Kung Fu master whom my dad knows very well was VERY impressed with the BJJ my brother showed him when he came to HK for the summer to learn some Kung Fu. He was so impressed he started calling in his other Kung Fu buddies to come see and spar with my bro. And after a while, my bro felt that he was teaching the guys grappling more than he was learning Kung Fu! However, they would never go to a BJJ or Judo club to take lessons though.
2/5/13 1:51 PM
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Wasa-B
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The Chinese women's judo team was one of the tops in the 90s or early 2000s? Not sure if they are still up there. The men's team has never really made a dent.

Also, i want a source on this 2 billion thing. Are counting Indians as Chinese in that?

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