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UnderGround Forums >> It's crazy that arguably the best 155er


2/2/13 3:51 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Kinkle - Okay, I'm done arguing. according to UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA, a fighter does WORSE when they drop down a weightclass. Using his logic, the HW division actually has the worst fighters. and the 125lb division has the best. Demetrius Johnson would annihilate Cain Velasquez in a fight according to UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA. I'm done arguing, you are completely correct, I was wrong.

Yes yes, strawmans and red herrings and then dicktuck with sarcasm at the end.

 

The ultimate escape. Well done.

2/2/13 3:51 PM
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D241
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My point, is use your own criteria as to why you think so and so won a fight. I would think that "orcus" would be able to do that and not have to resort to a system that is flawed, a system he obviously doesn't agree with 100%.

 

 

Edgar/Benson 1=Draw   Edgar/Benson 2=draw, but with Edgar having an edge.

 

I don't disagree with you on Edgar orcus. I use MY opinion, and in this circumstance, I'm in agreement with you, DESPITE what fightmetric says.

2/2/13 3:55 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 02/02/13 3:55 PM
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"I didn't know fightmetric was a person, I thought it was a system."

That's because you are wrong about everything, every time. Fightmetric is a website. The people behind the website watch fights and count strikes, takedowns, submissions, etc. At least until they became the official stats providers for the UFC, they did their counting/scoring from the tape, so they could frame-by-frame and slow-mo to see what's landing and what isn't. I don't know if they do that now and revise their initial live stats.

"If fightmetric isn't the overriding authority, than you shouldn't have tried to use that to support your belief that Werdum with his glorious buttflopping somehow "won" against Alistair Overeem."

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I used fightmetric to show that I was not the only one who thought Werdum threw and landed more strikes and had the lone sub attempt, and thus I am not the only one who thought he won, nor is it true -- as you claimed -- that no one could rationally give that fight to Werdum. 

"DESPITE what fightmetric says."

Again, Fightmetric has Edgar winning under their own system.

2/2/13 3:55 PM
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D241
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orcus - 

He'd have a good case. He'd have beaten BJ at LW (including getting more takedowns than Fitch, Macdonald, and Hughes did), been the only guy to beat Gray Maynard -- and doing it by KO -- and then arguably outfought Benson Henderson, before going down and beating Aldo who himself is a p4p great -- all while being smaller than the 145er.


I can think of 2 people who not only have wins over Gray Maynard, but who have finished him as well.

 

I'm talking about a FIGHT. not "sanctioned" fight, a fight.  Nate Diaz finished Gray Mayard in the Tuf house, so Edgar isn't the only one to finish Gray, and not the only one to finish him in the octagon.

And Gray Maynard also finished Gray Maynard. Famous double ko.

Edgar beating Gray is an accomplishment, but you seem to be sugarcoating Edgar finishing him as it's been done before.

2/2/13 3:57 PM
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orcus
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"I'm talking about a FIGHT. not "sanctioned" fight, a fight.  "

lol, whatever dude. 

2/2/13 5:01 PM
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liquidrob
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Wasa-B - 
liquidrob - Gil could make 145 also

Says who?

Can Anderson still make 167?

Gil and his camp

"The outcome of Saturday's title fight between champ Benson Henderson and Nate Diaz will not only impact the UFC's lightweight division, but possibly its future featherweight class.

Diaz today revealed that Strikeforce lightweight champ Gilbert Melendez (21-2 MMA, 11-1 SF) is considering a run at featherweight if the title changes hands on Saturday night at UFC on FOX 5, which takes place at KeyArena in Seattle.

Melendez trainer Cesar Gracie also told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) that the fighter is negotiating with the UFC on a possible new contract.

Diaz vs. Henderson serves on the event's FOX-televised main card, which follows prelims on FX and Facebook.

Gracie said Melendez, who currently is unable to fight due to a severe shoulder separation suffered in training for a scheduled Sept. 29 fight with Pat Healy, still has fights remaining on his Strikeforce contract, which was inked prior to the promotion's acquisition by UFC parent company Zuffa.

The trainer said negotiations are in the preliminary stages and stressed that nothing was finalized. He added that Melendez would likely stay at lightweight if Diaz is unsuccessful in his challenge of Henderson.

Diaz, meanwhile, said he could fight at lightweight or welterweight should Melendez migrate to the UFC.

"S--t don't go too well for this fight, and Gilbert Melendez is going to be champion for sure," Diaz said. "No doubt in my mind."

Gracie said Melendez is still recovering from the injury and was unsure on a timetable for the fighter's return. He most recently fought in May, when he defeated ex-champ Josh Thomson in a rubber match. He currently enjoys a seven-fight win streak.

Melendez repeatedly lobbied to cross over to the UFC when Strikeforce was acquired by Zuffa, but an agreement between Zuffa and Strikeforce broadcast partner Showtime nixed such a possibility. He was expected to fight on a Jan. 12 event, which is expected to be the final Strikeforce show, but had to again pull out due to his injury."
2/2/13 5:19 PM
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ortman166
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

I wouldn't say Frankie is terribly outside vs. Aldo. They seem close enough.

 

Edagr is a beast and if he beat Aldo should certainly be very high in the P4P discussion given his domination at LW as a very small LW.


Coming from the guy that says GSP and Anderson are comparable in size ;)

Derp Phone Post
2/2/13 6:52 PM
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cycklops
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I'm a fan of Edgar. There's no doubt he's as tough as they come and has done really well. But, when I think of pound for pound greats I think of guys that have beaten a number of people in their class. Granted I'm not the biggest fan of the fight game in the sense that I don't know every person every fighter has ever fought, but who has Frankie beaten to be one of the greatest? That's not a knock. I know he's beaten Penn twice, then Maynard...and who else? Obviously that's no easy task and I'm taking anything away but I see GSP and Silva just cleaning out the divisions.

2/2/13 8:03 PM
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Wasa-B
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liquidrob - 
Wasa-B - 
liquidrob - Gil could make 145 also

Says who?

Can Anderson still make 167?

Gil and his camp

"The outcome of Saturday's title fight between champ Benson Henderson and Nate Diaz will not only impact the UFC's lightweight division, but possibly its future featherweight class.

Diaz today revealed that Strikeforce lightweight champ Gilbert Melendez (21-2 MMA, 11-1 SF) is considering a run at featherweight if the title changes hands on Saturday night at UFC on FOX 5, which takes place at KeyArena in Seattle.

Melendez trainer Cesar Gracie also told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) that the fighter is negotiating with the UFC on a possible new contract.

Diaz vs. Henderson serves on the event's FOX-televised main card, which follows prelims on FX and Facebook.

Gracie said Melendez, who currently is unable to fight due to a severe shoulder separation suffered in training for a scheduled Sept. 29 fight with Pat Healy, still has fights remaining on his Strikeforce contract, which was inked prior to the promotion's acquisition by UFC parent company Zuffa.

The trainer said negotiations are in the preliminary stages and stressed that nothing was finalized. He added that Melendez would likely stay at lightweight if Diaz is unsuccessful in his challenge of Henderson.

Diaz, meanwhile, said he could fight at lightweight or welterweight should Melendez migrate to the UFC.

"S--t don't go too well for this fight, and Gilbert Melendez is going to be champion for sure," Diaz said. "No doubt in my mind."

Gracie said Melendez is still recovering from the injury and was unsure on a timetable for the fighter's return. He most recently fought in May, when he defeated ex-champ Josh Thomson in a rubber match. He currently enjoys a seven-fight win streak.

Melendez repeatedly lobbied to cross over to the UFC when Strikeforce was acquired by Zuffa, but an agreement between Zuffa and Strikeforce broadcast partner Showtime nixed such a possibility. He was expected to fight on a Jan. 12 event, which is expected to be the final Strikeforce show, but had to again pull out due to his injury."

Thanks for that, its been ages since Gil was at FW, wasnt sure if he still could or just UG Knowism. ;p

I suppose his hair makes him look bigger than he is? Guess he's still pretty lean.
2/2/13 8:12 PM
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Size
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It's such a laughable notion that Edgar deserves a higher pound for pound ranking because he feels like he has a better chance cutting less weight, while still weighing in the same as his opponents.
2/2/13 9:03 PM
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Size
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Edgar should go to flyweight. He'd be so strong I bet he'd win 50 fights in a row!
2/2/13 9:09 PM
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Wicked smahtMF
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its not a baseless argument, thats for sure.
2/3/13 8:05 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Aaaaaand Aldo is top 3 P4P no doubt. Phone Post
2/3/13 8:52 PM
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FinestScotch
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FinestScotch - 
orcus - 

"I WOULD argue that he lost his two last fights, if it weren't factually accurate."

Saying he lost those two fights is factually accurate. However that is not the same as saying Benson is better than he is.

"You know about fightmetric.com right? You were trying to convince me that Fabricio Werdum BEAT Alistair Overeem in their Strikeforce bout b/c FIGHTMETRIC said so."

No, you are mistaken, as you always are. In response to your saying no sane person could come up with a rational explanation for how Werdum could deserve the win over Alistair (which as I said I thought he did), I pointed you to Fightmetric, who had Werdum throwing and landing more strikes, including significant strikes, and having the lone sub attempt -- and winning both in the 10-point scoring system and in Fightmetric's own scoring system. The point being that there was clearly a good argument to be made for Werdum getting the win, contrary to your hysterical ranting. Nowhere did I try to claim that Werdum was a slamdunk for the win, or that Fightmetric is the overriding authority.

Another day, another fail from Dbag.

In any case, Fightmetric scoring Benson/Edgar II a draw just supports my case that Edgar is arguably the best 155er. Draw with Benson, domination of BJ, KO of Maynard...that seems like a strong argument for no one being above Edgar to me. Also, looking at the Fightmetric, they had the 10-point must as a draw but their own scoring system had Frankie as the winner.


Well, I'm saying Jose Aldo is better than he is.

1 month sn bet here:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2126660&forum=1&page=1&pc=3


buahaha


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