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UnderGround Forums >> The truth about steroids in sports


2/6/13 4:29 AM
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rundymc
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Tombmatter - It all boils down to the question "Do you want your kids to pump themselves full of steroids just to win in sports?" And for most parents the answer is no.

This would then lead kids not getting to do sports that "require" steroids, and thus those sports would die.

So its lot easier and faster route to go straight to underground as unsanctioned sport like NHB and do what you like for the fun of it and for some pocket money, because the end result is the same.

I disagree. Bear with me, I'll explain.

My impression, from reading interviews and articles by athletes and "dope-dealers" like Angel Hernandez, is that steroid use is rather rampant in sports. As such, if kids want to win at the highest levels of sports, be it sprinting, football or MMA, they either need to work their fucking asses off and hope their talent/genetics is where it needs to be, or start using..... Or quit.

That's how it is now. I'd rather my kids know what's up RIGHT NOW, than find out later that their hero Lance Armstrong (hypothetical, lol) was a user, or that they are unlikely to contend the world record in the 100m without some drug assistance.

So the argument you could present is: "Wait a sec, when my kid finds out his sporting heroes are on something, would they not want to emulate them. What example is being set for them."
My reply to this is: "Are you not the kid's parent? Your child watches all sorts of violence in media, and has yet to turn into a serial killer. I think you'll do fine."

As to your assertion that sports would eventually die if steroid use was legalized, I'll contend that, though I can't say I have much of an argument in my favor. I will say I'd rather the truth be out, than have parents and their children living a lie.
2/6/13 4:34 AM
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rundymc
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Maksemous - I'm more concerned about the 5-10% of PED users who are susceptible to fits of violent uncontrollable rage. I believe people should have sovereignty over their own health. However, there are documented cases of steroid abusers snapping, hurting people, and asserting diminished capacity as a defense to the specific intent crime that they're charged with.

I've seen guys on steroids lose their temper. It's a lot like that violent drunk guy no one likes...but on steroids...

Good point. I'm leaning more towards the "sovereignty over health" part. If a guy starts slipping while using, it's his responsibility to stop, just as it is a drinker's responsibility to stop consuming liquor.
2/6/13 4:50 AM
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NicolasExitBJJ
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FSMA - 
NicolasExitBJJ - fuck cheaters. hating on a guy because he has more talent is a sign of laziness. so what if he's genetically more gifted? let's say I got a colleague who's smarter than me hence better at computer programming, I'm not gonna take some drug to make me a better programmer now am I? see how ridiculous that sounds? no you study and work hard to become a better programmer. so what if fighting is their way of sustaining their families, maybe you should've gone to school ya dumb shit. IMO it's a sign of a society that thinks that everybody is entitled to everything. no you're not, life isn't fair. try to attain your own goals within the limits of your health and talent and don't worry about what somebody else does.

You can't honestly compare something like cognitive functioning and/or IQ with something physical like MMA. It doesn't compute.

why not? it's a talent just like any other.
2/6/13 9:55 AM
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rossi47
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The situation is really really sad.

If you are so fucking stupid that you wanna use steroids then go ahead. Ruin your system for the rest of your life, fuck with your mental health and tell your kids it's great.

That's what Martial Arts are all about
2/6/13 10:01 AM
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Headkick420
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lol. 0/10
2/6/13 12:52 PM
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Osbot
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Sean McCorkle - If a pro athlete tested positive for steroids it's because he was taking steroids. And it's not something he bought at GNC and thought it was legal. If you can buy it at GNC, it's because it doesn't work.

And his doctor didn't accidentally prescribe it. And there weren't false positives on the tests.

Do any of you actually believe that 90% of athletes in all professional sports are clean, and 10% that are juicing are the bad apples spoiling the bunch?

The ratio is probably quite the opposite. Are you telling me a 20 year old kid at the NFL scouting combine bench presses 700 lbs naturally? Probably not.

All of your Olympic athletes do too. This isn't an epidemic, it comes with the territory and always has. The UFC gets a bad rap for steroids because of the violence associated with it, but somehow football slides right by.

I have no idea how the NFL's testing policy works. But if any of you believe the whole league isn't gearing up you're crazy. You'd have to just to be able to recover from the weekly damage you incur.

I say legalize everything, and let the chips fall where they may. Sports aren't about fair competition. It's entertainment. And what's more entertaining than two chemically enhanced monsters going at each other?

Lastly, the whole TRT debate makes me want to hang myself. People say his ratio was 18:1 and 6:1 is the legal level, so he has 3x the testosterone level of his opponent. Those numbers have nothing to do with how much testerone someone has in their system. It a way of catching synthetic testosterone. IE testosterone you body didn't make. All the guys on TRT will have high ratios, which do not help at all, it's just a side effect. Like if you have piss in your blood, you might have a kidney stone. The piss blood doesn't tell you if it's a bigger or smaller stone.

All that matters on TRT is what your total level is at the time of the test. Normal ranges for men based on age are 450-850. I don't know what the commission allows, but lets say they cap it at 1000. Anyone and everyone should be free then to increase their testosterone to the limit, no different than driving the speed limit. The guys that don't want to, don't have to.

If you don't think it's fair that a fighter can boost his testosterone to a high end of legal using TRT, then I've got some news for you. I don't think it's fair that Cain has the insane God given cardio that he has. I don't think it's fair that Brock was as big, strong, and athletic as he was. I don't think it's fair that Randy could still compete at a high level at age 48.

We all knew what we were getting when Overeem signed. And we all hoped he wouldn't get caught. He is an absolutely terrifying prospect when he's on all the juice. That's what people want. Bigger, stronger, faster.

I'm sure there are long term side effects and risks to many steroids if they are taken long enough. Just like there are with drinking too much alcohol, smoking too many cigarettes, and texting while driving.

I say, get the government out of sports, and back to starting wars with countries that have natural resources we want. Let the UFC, NFL, MLB, whoever police their own fighters however they see fit.

But, hey, I'm an American. Someone who believes in freedom, Jesus, family, and the right to pursue happiness.

I wish more people had a clue about how pervasive the drug culture is in competitive sports.

When I played HS football in the 90's I would guess 5-10% of the guys I played with were saucing. When I played junior in Canada probably 25% were. I can only imagine that ratio continues to increase.

PED in professional sports is endemic.

Personally I don't care.

I don't care Lance was juiced to the gills, in fact you had to be a moron to not know he was.

I don't care because it makes the sports more entertaining, it can prolong careers. The major unfortunate side effect is that there are some long term detriments to health and the guys who are not willing to gear up can get left behind.

Then again, being a high level athlete in just about any sport will wreck your body and create long term health problems.

At the end of the day I don't think it can be properly regulated, and the guys not willing to break the rules are the ones who are being punished.

BTW, Floyd Landis' solo ride in the 2006 tour, while geared off his dick, is one of the most amazing and entertaining athletic feats in all of sports!
2/6/13 2:39 PM
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BshMstr
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Sean McCorkle - If a pro athlete tested positive for steroids it's because he was taking steroids. And it's not something he bought at GNC and thought it was legal. If you can buy it at GNC, it's because it doesn't work.

And his doctor didn't accidentally prescribe it. And there weren't false positives on the tests.

Do any of you actually believe that 90% of athletes in all professional sports are clean, and 10% that are juicing are the bad apples spoiling the bunch?

The ratio is probably quite the opposite. Are you telling me a 20 year old kid at the NFL scouting combine bench presses 700 lbs naturally? Probably not.

All of your Olympic athletes do too. This isn't an epidemic, it comes with the territory and always has. The UFC gets a bad rap for steroids because of the violence associated with it, but somehow football slides right by.

I have no idea how the NFL's testing policy works. But if any of you believe the whole league isn't gearing up you're crazy. You'd have to just to be able to recover from the weekly damage you incur.

I say legalize everything, and let the chips fall where they may. Sports aren't about fair competition. It's entertainment. And what's more entertaining than two chemically enhanced monsters going at each other?

Lastly, the whole TRT debate makes me want to hang myself. People say his ratio was 18:1 and 6:1 is the legal level, so he has 3x the testosterone level of his opponent. Those numbers have nothing to do with how much testerone someone has in their system. It a way of catching synthetic testosterone. IE testosterone you body didn't make. All the guys on TRT will have high ratios, which do not help at all, it's just a side effect. Like if you have piss in your blood, you might have a kidney stone. The piss blood doesn't tell you if it's a bigger or smaller stone.

All that matters on TRT is what your total level is at the time of the test. Normal ranges for men based on age are 450-850. I don't know what the commission allows, but lets say they cap it at 1000. Anyone and everyone should be free then to increase their testosterone to the limit, no different than driving the speed limit. The guys that don't want to, don't have to.

If you don't think it's fair that a fighter can boost his testosterone to a high end of legal using TRT, then I've got some news for you. I don't think it's fair that Cain has the insane God given cardio that he has. I don't think it's fair that Brock was as big, strong, and athletic as he was. I don't think it's fair that Randy could still compete at a high level at age 48.

We all knew what we were getting when Overeem signed. And we all hoped he wouldn't get caught. He is an absolutely terrifying prospect when he's on all the juice. That's what people want. Bigger, stronger, faster.

I'm sure there are long term side effects and risks to many steroids if they are taken long enough. Just like there are with drinking too much alcohol, smoking too many cigarettes, and texting while driving.

I say, get the government out of sports, and back to starting wars with countries that have natural resources we want. Let the UFC, NFL, MLB, whoever police their own fighters however they see fit.

But, hey, I'm an American. Someone who believes in freedom, Jesus, family, and the right to pursue happiness.

Sean, i appreciate your honesty as a pro athlete and fighter.... i am neither, so i assume what you're saying is true.


however, in reference to a couple things, you're a bit off, IMO...

1. one can test positive for PED's from a legal supplement. many supplements are manufactured in the same labs as pharmaceticals, hence the posibilty of cross contamination.

2. while the T:E ratio doesn't specifically show how much test is in one's system, knwoing how much testosterone is in one's system is in their sytem also doesn't know how effective that testosterone is. ideally, free testosterone is what one would focus on.... so for purposes of testing, T:E is good enough, as it shows if someone is adminstering exogeneous testosterone or not...


again, i appreciate your candor, but thought these points should be clarified....
2/6/13 2:51 PM
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BshMstr
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6ULDV8 - 

When Ben Johnson got popped after his world record 100M dash at the '88 Olympics, every athlete they spoke to about it said his mistake wasn't doing it, but getting caught.

 

They thought the Canadian team needed better doctors to fix it.


the story i heard, was that they thought he was getting hGH, but they actually gave him aqueous stanzozol...

ironically enough, Carl Lewis failed several tests prior to the Olympics for various banned stimulants....

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