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UnderGround Forums >> seriously cut the boo sit about TRT


2/10/13 1:19 AM
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rundymc
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Winston Wolf - 
rundymc - Judging by his follow up comments, OP is clearly another ignorant fan voicing his opinion on something he knows nothing about.

said im not an expert Why would I be bUt I know enough about it that my opinion is the people who use it in UFC dont need it and use a BS excuse as to why athetes in their 30s "need" it

Noted, and no you don't need to be an expert, and yes I think guys like Marquardt and Duffee are pushing the line. However look at it this way, nothing's stopping Hendo, GSP whatev from using between fights. A piss test is simple to beat WITHOUT cycling off, and random piss tests are expensive by themselves let alone random blood tests (can't be beat).

I look at the testing, I look at this sport, and it's demands on the body, the physiques of high level competitors and I think "most of these guys are probably using, if not before a fight, between fights." So to me, it's fair play, though I suppose most people are cheaters.

Hell, in some ways you could argue TRT-exemption seekers are helping matters by putting themselves under scrutiny, lol.
2/10/13 8:32 AM
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Winston Wolf
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Edited: 02/10/13 8:33 AM
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rundymc - 
And Wagners Cut - 
Herring In A Fur Coat -
Trane - Voted OP up.

Aging is a part of life, why mess with mother nature? Let's not stop there, how about letting fighters 40 years+ to go on full blown steroids since their muscle mass has been naturally eroded. Let them have EPO transfusions as well since their cardio isn't as good as it used to be.


Aging is a part of life, why mess with mother nature?



So you are against all anti aging treatments across the board, not just TRT in professional athletes?



The point is, it's clearly being abused in between fights which gives them an unfair advantage. Phone Post



Bro, everyone can, and I wager WILL, abuse PEDs between fights, because there is no randomized testing for guys not in camp.

There is no incentive to not use between fights, and plenty of incentive TO use.

A TRT exemption is however a free pass to get a boost during a training camp, when random testing is a possibility. It no doubt helps, and I do think it should be more well-regulated than it currently is (only a handful of tests are required towards the fight IIRC), but it's not quite a full cycle.

Doesn't Hendo submit weekly blood work paid for from his own pocket before a fight? Commissions should mandate something like this.

to say everyone uses between fights is bull crap Way too many do but to say well u can get a way with it so everyone does is a cop out but point takin
2/10/13 9:37 AM
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Smith1234
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colubrid1 - Education is what is needed.

I grew up in the sixties and I am 53 years old. i am on TRT.

back when i was a kid the school caled my parents because i had vatamin pills and taking them at school. The thinking back then was why take pills when you should get it from natural foods. My parents gave me vitamin pills and the school frowned upon it..

What does this have to do with TRT? Test is a natural substance in the body. Just like Vit C.We are still living in medeval times. You will se in a few more years is more education and the benifits of a longer life with small amounts of test.


A kid in his 20-30's does not need it unless he abused testosterone and shut his natural production down. That is what happened to most of tehse athletes getting TRT. Those dummies took it when their natrual test production was at a all time high..basically they did not need it.

if they had been more educated they would have not have taken it then.
Interesting. Do you need to work out to get the benefits of taking T? Phone Post
2/10/13 9:38 AM
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Smith1234
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^^ Actually let me take a step back and ask what are the benefits of you taking T? Phone Post
2/10/13 11:18 AM
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Lobo8
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Edited: 02/10/13 11:22 AM
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Honestly Its ridiculous that they allow this crap. Their is So many ways to get your Testosterone to appear low so you can get a doctors note to get on the stuff. Then during training camp you can inject crazy amounts so your a roided beast that can train hard. Once fight time or your test times come around just taper off and come back to the "normal levels". Another ridiculous thing is the range of normal levels that you have test in is ridiculously huge. You dont have to a genius to know how to abuse the system. Trt is a joke. It irritates me when i see trt users like hendo(i bet a past steroid user too) fighting clean guys like shogun and put a beating on them. This is fighting and clean guys like bisping and shogun are getting hurt bad by these roided up trt fighters.
2/10/13 11:24 AM
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Winston Wolf
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Lobo8 - Honestly Its ridiculous that they allow this crap. Their is So many ways to get your Testosterone to appear low so you can get a doctors note to get on the stuff. Then during training camp you can inject crazy amounts so your a roided beast that can train hard. Once fight time or your test times come around just taper off and come back to the "normal levels". Another ridiculous thing is the range of normal levels that you have test in is ridiculously huge. You dont have to a genius to know how to abuse the system. Trt is a joke. It irritates me when i see trt users like hendo(i bet a past steroid user too) fighting clean guys like shogun and put a beating on them. This is fighting and clean guys like bisping and shogun are getting hurt bad by these roided up trt fighters.

2/10/13 11:28 AM
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Lobo8
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Winston Wolf - 
Gobulcoque - 
Winston Wolf - ok explain the ratio thing to me then Never said i was a doctor.I thought they were allowed 6:1 when the average is 1:1 and Overeem was 12:1 I admit im not n expert

The ratio is a ratio, it has nothing to do with the actual levels of testosterone in someones body. If no testosterone is administered from an outside source your ratio should be 1:1. If you are taking test/on TRT, this ratio will be way out of proportion, you could have a 100:1 ratio and still have less testosterone than a 40 year old fat man.

There is no reason why the level of testosterone shouldn't be consistent among all fighters since everyone seems to agree that it's a big advantage.

thanks thats what i thought and think they should all be 1:1

actually 1:1 ratio is the average male. But natural super atheletes and physical freaks can be much higher ratios but usually never past 4:1. But its ridiculous to allow the 1:1 ratio guys to get more just because they are crying about other guys having naturally higher levels. Its good that people want an even playing field but thats going a bit to far. But at the very least i think we can all agree that injecting synthetic testosterone to raise your low T levels because you abused steroids in the past is absolutely ridiculous.
2/11/13 4:11 PM
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Trane
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sparkuri -  A lot of good posters arguing with each other.
My view. I'd never even heard of trt until the UFC, and MOST people who "need" it have muscles on top of muscles.
If someone "needs" it to enhance their performance, then open the floodgates and cut the crap.
The exceptions would be guys like Hallman maybe, and the amount needed should be no more than that given to a janitor or teacher. Phone Post

That's because this BS exemption rule does not exist in any other sport except the UFC. Is TRT allowed in Boxing? NFL? NBA? MLB? NHL? If no then why is allowed here? If the reason is so that older fighters can still compete with the younger fellas then the UFC has become more of an entertainment business than it is a sport. If so, then it is what it is, and we shall accept this organization for what it is, an entertainment business.

Why is that guys that are on TRT perform better than they do when they're not on? Hendo, Vitor, Marquart, Sonnen etc.

Why is that they are jacked in their mid-late 30's?

Why is that many of these fighters are most likely PED abusers in their past which may have attributed to this low testosterone to begin with? So essentially the "cheaters" do not have to suffer the consequences of their actions, but instead rewarded?

Lastly, you don't have to be a medical doctor to observe the obvious. As with the the mass media, many of the publications done by doctors and journalists are agenda based and biased. Sometimes it's better to think for youself and form your own conclusions.
2/11/13 5:34 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Trane - 
sparkuri -  A lot of good posters arguing with each other.
My view. I'd never even heard of trt until the UFC, and MOST people who "need" it have muscles on top of muscles.
If someone "needs" it to enhance their performance, then open the floodgates and cut the crap.
The exceptions would be guys like Hallman maybe, and the amount needed should be no more than that given to a janitor or teacher. Phone Post

That's because this BS exemption rule does not exist in any other sport except the UFC. Is TRT allowed in Boxing? NFL? NBA? MLB? NHL? If no then why is allowed here? If the reason is so that older fighters can still compete with the younger fellas then the UFC has become more of an entertainment business than it is a sport. If so, then it is what it is, and we shall accept this organization for what it is, an entertainment business.

Why is that guys that are on TRT perform better than they do when they're not on? Hendo, Vitor, Marquart, Sonnen etc.

Why is that they are jacked in their mid-late 30's?

Why is that many of these fighters are most likely PED abusers in their past which may have attributed to this low testosterone to begin with? So essentially the "cheaters" do not have to suffer the consequences of their actions, but instead rewarded?

Lastly, you don't have to be a medical doctor to observe the obvious. As with the the mass media, many of the publications done by doctors and journalists are agenda based and biased. Sometimes it's better to think for youself and form your own conclusions.

2/11/13 5:56 PM
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Jons Forsberg
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DeuceDroppin -  The ignorance here is sickening. It's not exactly just that simple though. What is truly sickening is all of these Internet experts, that don't even have the most basic level of understanding regarding this, yet they talk like they are experts and influence the random forum sheep to think as they do. Everyone that posts that TRT users are allowed to have 6 times more test in their bodies should seriously be perma-banned for such blatant ignorance. Phone Post

2/11/13 7:53 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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Trane - 
sparkuri -  A lot of good posters arguing with each other.
My view. I'd never even heard of trt until the UFC, and MOST people who "need" it have muscles on top of muscles.
If someone "needs" it to enhance their performance, then open the floodgates and cut the crap.
The exceptions would be guys like Hallman maybe, and the amount needed should be no more than that given to a janitor or teacher. Phone Post

That's because this BS exemption rule does not exist in any other sport except the UFC. Is TRT allowed in Boxing? NFL? NBA? MLB? NHL? If no then why is allowed here? If the reason is so that older fighters can still compete with the younger fellas then the UFC has become more of an entertainment business than it is a sport. If so, then it is what it is, and we shall accept this organization for what it is, an entertainment business.

Why is that guys that are on TRT perform better than they do when they're not on? Hendo, Vitor, Marquart, Sonnen etc.

Why is that they are jacked in their mid-late 30's?

Why is that many of these fighters are most likely PED abusers in their past which may have attributed to this low testosterone to begin with? So essentially the "cheaters" do not have to suffer the consequences of their actions, but instead rewarded?

Lastly, you don't have to be a medical doctor to observe the obvious. As with the the mass media, many of the publications done by doctors and journalists are agenda based and biased. Sometimes it's better to think for youself and form your own conclusions.

Is TRT allowed in Boxing?

Considering that the TUEs for TRT in US MMA are approved by the same state athletic comissions which regulate boxing, it's safe to say it is allowed in boxing.

 

 

If the reason is so that older fighters can still compete with the younger fellas then the UFC has become more of an entertainment business than it is a sport. If so, then it is what it is, and we shall accept this organization for what it is, an entertainment business.

All professional sprots are an enterntainment business.

And what is so unsporting about the older fighters being able to hang with the younger guys for longer?

 

Why is that guys that are on TRT perform better than they do when they're not on?

Is that not obious?

 

Why is that they are jacked in their mid-late 30's?

Not sure what you mean by that...

2/12/13 4:06 AM
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Trane
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Boxing is shit anyways and is losing credibility fast if a guy like Marquez pisses clean you know something's not right.

Please read this article.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-iole_marquardt_trt_commissions_070611

Actually, we are wrong about the purpose for allowing TRT, it's not really about allowing the older fighters to be competitive with the younger ones, according to article and Keith Kizer:
______________________________

Keith Kizer, Sirb’s counterpart with the Nevada Athletic Commission, is strongly in favor of providing therapeutic-use exemptions for TRT in cases where it’s medically indicated. He said if the TRT is monitored correctly, it will not provide a performance benefit.

Kizer said it becomes a fairness issue to a fighter who has a condition that can be corrected by a doctor and who would, in all other respects, be eligible to compete.

_____________________________

This is all BS. Victor Conte who knows more about PEDs than anyone states,

Conte, though, suggested doing away with the therapeutic-use exemption as a way to deny fighters a loophole through which they’re able to exploit the rules.

“I think for the most part, these guys go to these anti-aging/longevity-type docs, and they’re using these substances off-label as opposed to really treating a deficiency,” Conte said. “As you know, the system works on a feedback loop. You use the drugs, the testosterone or the steroids, and it saturates the androgen receptors. When you go off, because [the body has] been given the signal that its cup is full, it shuts down your own endogenous production.

“It takes a while for the signal to register [that the body] needs to produce more. They take that window and they go to the doctor and they say, ‘I have all these symptoms. I’m irritable, I’m not recovering,’ and they get a prescription [for TRT]. It’s easy to trick the doctor into thinking because you have low testosterone levels in blood serum that you need a prescription.”

____________________________________


To sum it up, Keizer believes that TRT provides no performance advantage and is for fighters that have a medical condition which produces low testosterone.

Victor Conte on the other hand believes that it does enhance performance and that fighters not only use this loophole to exploit the rules to gain an unfair advantage. He adds that doctors could easily be tricked into thinking that one needs TRT treatment when they naturally don't.

From what we've observed about the benefits of TRT and who all is using them, who do you tend to believe in this matter?
2/12/13 4:17 AM
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Trane
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Edited: 02/12/13 4:39 AM
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...
2/12/13 7:02 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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"And what is so unsporting about the older fighters being able to hang with the younger guys for longer?"

as a fan don't you want the fighter that is most skilled, that works the hardest and fights the smartest to win? or should testicular productivity be the main determinant?
2/12/13 3:48 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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Jons Forsberg - "And what is so unsporting about the older fighters being able to hang with the younger guys for longer?"

as a fan don't you want the fighter that is most skilled, that works the hardest and fights the smartest to win? or should testicular productivity be the main determinant?

Testicular productivity alone does not win fights.

As a fan, I'm all for fighters being able to prolong their careers by chemical supplementation.

2/15/13 9:09 PM
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Winston Wolf
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pretty sure Danas reading this thread
2/15/13 9:25 PM
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Lobo8
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Edited: 02/15/13 9:28 PM
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Glad hes reading these threads and listening to the fans. Thank you Dana!!!
2/16/13 12:39 AM
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DaddyGorg
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Edited: 02/16/13 12:40 AM
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OP is 100% correct. The amount by which in a normal person it naturally drops in your 30's,40's and for most the 50's is insignificant to fighting prowess. Absolutely irrelevant issue for every single fighter except for roid junkies.
2/16/13 1:08 AM
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Megatherium
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1a1 - Im not a MD, however, anecdotally the high amount of athletes that legitimally need TRT seems to be stageringly high in MMA.

Seems odd

Indeed it does!
2/16/13 1:09 AM
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backside smith
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I only read about 5-6 posts.... but here is my 2 cents.... everybody gets old... and with that comes a a drop in test.... it will happen to everyone... that's who you are....  if you have tiny little balls then you have tiny little balls.... get over it, you're not the stud you think you are.... I'm sorry if you can't break off the old lady like you used to you f*cking has been.... sorry if she thinks back to all the real men that used to sex her up like she deserves... and if she hits menopause and grows a beard..... and she prob. will..... she can take all the ERT in the world and deep inside you'll know that b*tch has a beard...I'm ugly with long arms, and I'm not going to line up for arm shortening or pretty pills..... it's cheating and there is no 2 ways about it... now take your useless little balls and your gyneclamasia back to the gym and train hard like the rest of us or at least do the best you can you little fairies...... and be ashamed, yah ashamed.... your grandfathers are turning over in thier graves....

2/16/13 1:11 AM
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Trane
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Glad to see that Dana can finally spot the obvious!
2/16/13 3:40 AM
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Winston Wolf
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Edited: 02/16/13 3:40 AM
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wheres know it all Herring who is owned by Dana who no doubt read this thread
2/16/13 3:44 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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lol God. you're such a sad man Winston.
2/16/13 3:47 AM
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Winston Wolf
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no im happy as can be just came in to 10 Gs.Why am I sad ? oh and kisss my ass
2/16/13 3:48 AM
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Winston Wolf
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im obviously joking about Dana reading this

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