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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Paris Grand Slam--Day 2


2/10/13 2:31 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/10/13 3:00 AM
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We are less than 30 minutes away from Day 2 of the Paris Grand Slam.  The divisions for today are:

Men's  81kg, 90kg, -100kg and +100kg     Women's 70kg, -78kg and +78kg.  The only USA Judo competitor is Nina Cutro-Kelly.

The IJF is proudly saying that there were 6% more ippons this year than last.  Maybe so, but I wonder if they are adding in hansoku make as an ippon.  Let me be very clear, that what action I saw yesterday was riddled with penalties.  The Ippons did not seem that spectacular for the most part either.

Here is the link for the video feed:

http://212.227.28.227/live/index.php

Here is the link for the pools.

http://217.79.182.227/www.judo-world.net/ijf/grand_slam/2013_paris/tta_menue.php?modus=1024&sprache=english

Once again, there will be action on all 5 mats. I'm going to try and stay up long enough to watch Iliades compete a few rounds.  You can get commentary on the HD selection.

2/10/13 3:44 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/24/13 1:39 AM
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Iliades out in the first round.  He loses to Peters, the 2012 Bronze Medalist in 100kg by penalties.

Peters got an early waza-ari.  Iliades picked up 4 gripping penalties.  Two of them were for breaking the grip with two hands.

If Iliades is going to remain relevant, I think he has to move down to 90kg.  100kg is just to big a gap to cross and Peters towered over him and looked much stronger until the end.

I stated in another thread that the gripping rules favored the stronger fighters.  If Iliades was able to use two hands to break a grip, I think the match could have had a different result.

So, if the IJF wanted to give the stronger fighters even more advantages, congratulations, you've achieved success.

2/10/13 3:52 AM
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Seong gyeong
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Damn, I missed it. Sucks to hear that.
2/10/13 8:35 AM
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judoblackbelt
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You can still break the grip but with one hand only, too many of these and you will get penalized. All in all the shito's for negative gripping is better than before. The athletes look spent with the new rules. Hardly any mat work to conserve energy or none left in the tank or just trying to finish at the end. Hardly any golden scores with the shito's determining the winner in case of a tie at reg. So mission accomplished. The no leg grabs has taken some of the dynamic throws out of judo and the unpredictability. I see a few more ippon throws is it because the opponent is more tired and vulnerable? Now I see basic throws/combinations with very few counters. Mat work has become "extinct" unless it is a follow-up to a yuko/wazari. I miss this part of judo. Fighting up in weight (Iliadis) is an impossilbility for most of us yet alone these world class judokas. The strength difference is unreal. We will have to go thru these new rules for the year to see the total effect. What bothers me is the reduced matwork, there is no reason to engage umless you are ahead in the match.
2/10/13 9:29 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/24/13 9:14 PM
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Here is the trick to no golden score that the IJF does not tell you.  If the score is tied, they are ACTIVELY LOOKING to penalize a player so the match does not go into golden score.  Watch how penalties get assessed in the last 30 seconds by referees when the score is tied.

Is that the type of result that players, coaches and spectators deserve?

I disagree on matwork.  Maybe it was the matches I was watching but I saw more finishes in newaza than I remember from most Grand Slam events. There does seem to be more time given.  This is ancedotal, and I have not taken the time to review to the actual results.

I believe that the more ippons claim is simply from more matches being decided by hansoku make. Nick Delpopolo shows winning by ippon when all that happened was his opponent touched his leg.

The IJF is out of touch if they believe that this judo is more spectator friendly.  The martial arts viewer is simply more sophisticated than at any other time in history.

Imagine that the Miami Grand Slam Finals are broadcast on Versus, Fuel, or some other channel. Now imagine further that we have 100,000 viewers who are not judoka.   They watch the finals which are penalty fests or even worse, an athlete is disqualified for touching the leg.  What is their impression going to be of judo?

All that said, I'm back up this morning getting ready to watch the finals. Only watched an hour of the prelims. Once Iliades was out, I got annoyed and lost interest.

 

 

2/10/13 9:32 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Just had a chance to check out Marti's Facebook. Looks like the athletes in Paris are just as frustrated as this fan.

https://www.facebook.com/MartiMalloyJUDO/posts/331920366917912

 

 

2/10/13 10:22 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/10/13 12:32 PM
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Final Results:

-81kg Bronze

Nagashima (JPN) defeats Csoknyai (HUN) with a beautiful Ko-Soto-Gake from a bear hug type grip. He had been up by yuko from a left side uchimata.

Penalber (BRA) defeats Khabachirov (RUS) by waza-ari with seoinage. Penalber was playing double lapel grip very well in early rounds. Looks like he hit the seoinage from the same grip. Back to me, so not for sure.

-70kg Bronze

Vargas Koch (GER) defeats Ayush (MGL) by ippon with left side uchimata.  Koch was down by yuko with 58 seconds left.  An earlier yuko call for Koch had been waved off.

Decosse (FRA) defeats Pasquet (FRA) by penalties. No scores in the match.

More to come.

 

2/10/13 10:40 AM
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Edited: 02/10/13 12:32 PM
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-90kg Bronze

Kato (JPN) defeats Sulemin (RUS) by penalties. Kato had some nice seoinage attacks early that Sulemin spun out of. Kato gets a late osaekomi, but cannot hold it for a score.

Choriev (UZB) defeates Iddir (FRA) by yuko that looked like harai goshi. Gets the yuko with about 1 minute left and he had 3 penalties. Does not pick up the 4th one. USA Judo referee Gary Takemoto on the mat.

-78kg Bronze

Sato (JPN) defeats Jeong (KOR) by hansoku make from 4 penalties.

Roberge (CAN) defeats Cotton (CAN) by penalties. Just like clockwork with the penalties tied with 1 minute to go, the referee gives Cotton her second penalty.  Cotton picks up another one and so does Roberge. Cotton refuses to shake Roberge's hand at the end.

 

More to follow.

2/10/13 11:03 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/10/13 7:00 PM
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-100kg Bronze

Maret (FRA) defeats Pacek (SWE) with a nice version of  okuri eri jime. A little over a minute into the match

Grol (NED) defeats Kumashiro (JPN) with what looks like a nice tai-otoshi counter. He scored yuko earlier but I missed it as I was watching Maret's choke.  Match lasted about 2 minutes.

Men's +100kg Bronze

Cho (KOR) defeats Brayson (CUB) by wazari awasete ippon. He throws Brayson who towers over him twice with drop knee seoinage for waza-ari.  Brayson also had 3 penalties on his side of the ledger.

Shichinohe (JPN) defeats Silva (BRA) by having less penalties.

Women's +78kg Bronze

JiYoun Kim (KOR) defeats Kindzerska (UKR) by ippon. She was down by two penalties. There were about 3 minutes left on the clock.  Unfortunately, I was more focused on the other match where the other Kim from Korea was working okuri eri jime walking her opponent.  I believe it was a leg technique judging by the body position. Maybe Ko Soto, O Soto,  or Ko Soto Gake.

Eun Gyeong Kim (KOR) defeates Andeol (FRA) by ippon. She pins her with what looks like a Sankaku Gatame.

On to the finals.

2/10/13 11:17 AM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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-81kg Gold Medal match

It is Tchrikishvili (GEO) vs Imamov (UZB).  

Imamov (UZB)  defeats Tchrikishvili (GEO) by ippon with a little more than 3 minutes remaining on the clock.  It looks to me like the technique began as an Utsuri Goshi, and turned into a Ko Uchi Gari.  Don't know how the refs will classify it.

-70kg Gold Medal match

It is Polling (NED) vs Zupancic (CAN)

Polling (NED) defeats Zupancic (CAN) by ippon.  She throws her with uchimata for waza-ari and follows immediately into kesa gatame. Nice transitional judo. She looks incredibly strong.  Need to watch her over the coming years.

 

2/10/13 11:46 AM
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-90kg Gold Medal match

It is Gonzalez (CUB) vs Liparteliani (GEO).

Liparteliani (GEO) defeats Gonzalez (CUB) by yuko. He threw him in the first minute with uchimata for yuko. Rest of the match is a penalty fest with Gonzalez picking up 3 from passivity and negative gripping and Liparteliani picking two up for passivity and negative gripping. They show the old tennis pro Ilie Nastase in the audience. If that is our celebrity guest at the Paris Open, I just don't know what to say. We have bigger stars at surf shop openings here in Orange County.  He did do a medal presentation.

-78kg Gold Medal match

It is Louette (FRA)  vs Ogata (JPN).

Louette (FRA defeats Ogata (JPN) by yuko.  She throws her early in the match with a drop knee seoinage. Ogata can never must any decent attack. Surprisingly with such little action in the match each player only picked up 1 passivity penalty.

Teddy Riner up in two matches.

 

2/10/13 12:20 PM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/10/13 7:53 PM
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-100kg Gold Medal match

It is Krpalek (CZE) vs Battulga (MGL)

Krpalek (CZE) defeats Battulga (MGL) by ippon.  He throws Battugla in the first minute with sumi gaeshi and no call by the referee.  The table overrules and awards yuko.  Next exchange Krpalek drags Battulga to the ground after an attack by the Mongolian competitor. Krpalek does the juji gatame roll, extends the arm and Battulga taps out. 

 

+100kg Gold Medal match

It is Riner (FRA) vs Kim (KOR)

WINNER,WINNER, TEDDY RINER.  Riner (FRA) defeats Kim (KOR) by ippon.  With 1:45 to go, Riner blasts Kim with a right sided uchimata. No question about the call. Match was very boring up to that point.  Riner was ahead having only 1 penalty to Kim's two, but Kim had the best attack with an ashi waza attempt that broke Teddy's balance.

 

+78kg Gold Medal match

It is Ortiz (CUB) vs Tachimoto (JPN)

Tachimoto (JPN) defeats Ortiz (CUB) by ippon.  Ippon defined by Ortiz getting 4 passivity penalties with the final one coming with 19 seconds on the clock.  Worst fight of the finals.

 

 

2/10/13 4:34 PM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Some stats from the finals

Total matches--21

Matches ending by Ippon-------------------9

Matches ending by awasete Ippon------2    2 seoinage in one,   uchimata into kesagatame

Matches won by waza-ari------------------1

Matches won by yuko-----------------------3

Matches won by penalties-----------------6    2 of the matches ended in hansoku make.

Total                                                          21

Miscellaneous

Ippon from newaza---------------------------3   1 osae waza, 1 kansetsu waza, 1 shime waza

Ippon from tachiwaza------------------------6

The referees decided more than 28% of the matches via penalty. 

 

2/10/13 7:11 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Thanks OCjudo for the analysis. Polling womens(70K-Ned) was a beast. I have to see the match she ipponed Lucie Decosse on the Greek's website when he has it posted.

Krpalek, mens 100K was also a beast. He looked like he could of fought in the 100+k easily.

Iliadis will have to get down to 90K. His strategy of grip fighting to get the over the back grip doesn't work well with these bigger 100K guys. They are too tall and strong for this to be effective.

I want to see the match between Maret Fra and Pacet SWE for one of the 100k bronze. That choke is something I have been working on and can't get it to work. He chokes from under the arm pit. I have seen it before a couple of times. Hope the Greek website has this match posted.
2/11/13 1:08 AM
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Seong gyeong
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OCJudoTrngCtr - 

-90kg Gold Medal match

It is Gonzalez (CUB) vs Liparteliani (GEO).

Liparteliani (GEO) defeats Gonzalez (CUB) by yuko. He threw him in the first minute with uchimata for yuko. Rest of the match is a penalty fest with Gonzalez picking up 3 from passivity and negative gripping and Liparteliani picking two up for passivity and negative gripping. They show the old tennis pro Ilie Nastase in the audience. If that is our celebrity guest at the Paris Open, I just don't know what to say. We have bigger stars at surf shop openings here in Orange County.  He did do a medal presentation.

-78kg Gold Medal match

It is Louette (FRA)  vs Ogata (JPN).

Louette (FRA defeats Ogata (JPN) by yuko.  She throws her early in the match with a drop knee seoinage. Ogata can never must any decent attack. Surprisingly with such little action in the match each player only picked up 1 passivity penalty.

Teddy Riner up in two matches.

 


LMAO @ "We have bigger stars at surf shop openings here in Orange County."

Thank you for that.

Not all of my favorites competed in this tourney; none of those who did won gold.

Will be interesting to see how things play out in tournaments to come due to these new rule changes.
2/11/13 10:26 AM
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Osaekomi
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OC, Thanks for the break-down. Both you and Judo Black Belt made good points. Hey, I watched the shiai as a skeptic but I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I dug the old school scoring parameters in that you now have to actually throw a dude on his back for a wazaari or ippon. No crap points for throws just because a fella was knocked down. Also, I liked the lack of "fencing" for grips and they players seemed to lock up more and boom in for big throw attempts. Agree with Judo BB about Iliadis' style not really being suited for those 100 kg beasts. I know because I faced the same problem when I started competing again in my late thirties in the late 1980s as a 200 lber. I found I could not muscle the bigger, taller dudes with longer extremities than I with my gripping. Was chucked hard a few times trying.
2/11/13 4:14 PM
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judoblackbelt
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The greek website (www.judo.com.gr)has some of the videos from the Paris Grand Slam.Watch the match below, Maret France vs Pacek SWE, 100k Bronze. Looks like a a Peruvian necktie choke but the choking arm is under the armpit. Neil Adams calls it Sankaku jime.
http://www.judo.com.gr/2013/02/judo-grand-slam-paris-2013-bronze-100kg-maret-cyrille-fra-pacek-martin-swe. Still looking for the Lucie Decosse vs Polling video. Rarely see Decosse loose let alone ipponed.

2/11/13 7:05 PM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Edited: 02/24/13 9:06 PM
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Hey Osaekomi,

I liked Day 2 much better than I liked Day 1, even with my frustration at Iliades going out in the first round. The consensus from some of the old school judo players that I talk to seems to enjoy the results that the new rules are creating.  I must be in the minority because I liked a lot of the game inside the game with gripping strategies.

I remain uncomfortable with the restriction and bans on throws, grips, and strategies that are efficient and effective. I believe that efficacy is extremely important in any martial art, and in the long run banning safe techniques that work is a bad thing.  I think there was a better way to get a result. If the technique didn't break balance and score--penalty.  That would have solved a lot of problems.

2/13/13 6:19 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Judo Grand Slam Paris 2013 -70kg DECOSSE Lucie (FRA) – POLLING Kim (NED). this match is on the website: www.judo.com.gr. The new 'bully on the block" is Polling, she counters Decosse(Olympic Champion) for Ippon. Must see video.
2/19/13 7:51 PM
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Wasa-B
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The Fight Network had this on! Caught both days, its been a while since Ive watched judo though you can catch on youtube now, so diff from the old days which was a bit like the days of VHS tapes of UFC/Pride. Man, the Paris tournament has the best vibe/production by a mile. I remember when i was younger and some of the older guys in my club talked about how big judo was in France and how into it and knowledgable the crowd was and the production value they had even back in the early 90s.

I do miss seeing leg attacks and pick ups though coming from wrestling.
2/22/13 10:41 PM
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factchecker
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Did you guys know that this was on YouTube? Some clip is over six hours long!
2/23/13 8:48 AM
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judoblackbelt
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The six hour long clips are the elimations. That is the norm. The quarter finals,semi's and finals are usually 2 hrs long and usually begin 1-2 hrs after the elimination round is completed. The website www.judo.com.gr is a subset of both these rounds.

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