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UnderGround Forums >> Wrestling doesn't win fights


2/13/13 4:50 PM
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punchyone
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GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
2/13/13 4:54 PM
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GriffinQ
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punchyone -
GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/ Phone Post
2/13/13 4:56 PM
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epic hero
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GriffinQ - 
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post

Because submissions are not the focal point of wrestling, plain and simple.

Get a wrestler, don't let him train in the other facets of mma, we'll see how effective your wrestling is. Training in all aspects of mma coupled with your dominant skill is what makes it so effective. Wrestling fanboys only want to credit one discipline for their success, but without the use of the other disciplines they would not be nearly as successful, period. Do you believe Hughes does not have vast amounts of knowledge in regards to jiu-jitsu? Barnett as well?
2/13/13 5:00 PM
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punchyone
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GriffinQ -
punchyone -
GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/ Phone Post
Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj. Phone Post
2/13/13 5:03 PM
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GriffinQ
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epic hero -
GriffinQ - 
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post

Because submissions are not the focal point of wrestling, plain and simple.

Get a wrestler, don't let him train in the other facets of mma, we'll see how effective your wrestling is. Training in all aspects of mma coupled with your dominant skill is what makes it so effective. Wrestling fanboys only want to credit one discipline for their success, but without the use of the other disciplines they would not be nearly as successful, period. Do you believe Hughes does not have vast amounts of knowledge in regards to jiu-jitsu? Barnett as well?
Literally no one is only crediting one aspect except for those of you saying submission knowledge can only come from Jiu-jitsu. I have stated multiple times that BJJ knowledge is necessary due to the guard.

You're allowed to admit that wrestling can finish fights without it somehow making BJJ less important, yknow. Hughes' armbar of GSP? A sub he knew due to his knowledge of BJJ, due to the positions involved. His front headlock of Almeida? A submission he knew and learned from wrestling practice, long before he did BJJ. Phone Post
2/13/13 5:07 PM
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GriffinQ
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punchyone -
GriffinQ -
punchyone -
GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/ Phone Post
Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj. Phone Post
Fair point Phone Post
2/13/13 5:55 PM
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Vale_Tudo_83
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Jones was referring to lay n pray style base wrestling.

Of the hundreds of mma fighters how many of them are subbing ppl with there wrestling subs compared to the guys that use bbj/wrestling combos?

In mma wrestling is not associated with subs/ko/tkos, its more for positioning and control. Now I'm not saying its useless quite the contrary wrestling can lead to finishes witch happen all the time.

Plus any wrestler in mma today improves there grappling with bbj,i I dont think there to josh barrnett types out there that dont use bjj to inprove there subs. Phone Post
2/14/13 4:31 AM
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Wicked smahtMF
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punchyone - 
ausgepicht -
gamer - I hate to agree with Jones, but the fact is, Jones is right regardless

Wrestling by itself can not finish fights

It can only get you into position

Striking and BJJ is what finishes fights

Striking arts and submission arts are legitimate martial arts

Etc., etc. Besides the slams, all the positioning, control ties, scrambles, work ethic, training, competition experience, and more from wrestling wins these fights.

Wait we're is Gray Maynard's fight with rob Emerson? Double TKO, from wrestling. Phone Post

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive
2/14/13 5:39 AM
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GriffinQ
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Wicked smahtMF -
punchyone - 
ausgepicht -
gamer - I hate to agree with Jones, but the fact is, Jones is right regardless

Wrestling by itself can not finish fights

It can only get you into position

Striking and BJJ is what finishes fights

Striking arts and submission arts are legitimate martial arts

Etc., etc. Besides the slams, all the positioning, control ties, scrambles, work ethic, training, competition experience, and more from wrestling wins these fights.

Wait we're is Gray Maynard's fight with rob Emerson? Double TKO, from wrestling. Phone Post

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive
Banned 5 times in a few months was actually what I said. If you know anything about Thiaguy, you'll know why he shouldn't be judging other posters. Context, bro

I'm done arguing with you because no, my definition of wrestling does not match yours nor is it going to, regardless of how you seem to think I mean wrestling when I normally speak of it. Phone Post
2/14/13 7:31 AM
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Wicked smahtMF
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Griffin. fair enough. your definition is your definition. The issue, at least as it seemed to me, wasnt so much definition as nomenclature/ lingo. and originally it was about Jones' definition/ language/ intent/ meaning. i thought it was fairly obvious that he was talking "generally" and wouldnt have had a problem conceding that the rare, all be it fucking epic, slam kos dont apply. there are some crazy subs that have more of a wrestling look/ feel that come to mind like Von Flues, crazy fucking can openers, even the twister like someone else mentioned. its a fine line and id use the word grappling to describe in one word but yeah its just a way to quickly differentiate and i think most of us just use it like that without even thinking. ive got a buddy that tranes BJJ but has always called it wrestling. not sub wrestling, grappling, or BJJ, just wrestling. always annoyed me to be honest but there ya go.
FRAT
2/14/13 9:41 AM
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ausgepicht
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Edited: 02/14/13 9:45 AM
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Wicked smahtMF - 
punchyone - 
ausgepicht -
gamer - I hate to agree with Jones, but the fact is, Jones is right regardless

Wrestling by itself can not finish fights

It can only get you into position

Striking and BJJ is what finishes fights

Striking arts and submission arts are legitimate martial arts

Etc., etc. Besides the slams, all the positioning, control ties, scrambles, work ethic, training, competition experience, and more from wrestling wins these fights.

Wait we're is Gray Maynard's fight with rob Emerson? Double TKO, from wrestling. Phone Post

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive

If there was any doubt about how stupid you are, reading your 4th grade spelling, punctuation, and syntax did away with it. Your logic is on par with a potato rolling down a hill. 

Someone said wrestling doesn't WIN fights. I not only proved it, but proved wrestling also FINISHES fights. Why does that bother you? Stuck under side control for an entire workout by a junior high school wrestler?

2/14/13 5:32 PM
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Wicked smahtMF
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ausgepicht - 
Wicked smahtMF - 
punchyone - 
ausgepicht -
gamer - I hate to agree with Jones, but the fact is, Jones is right regardless

Wrestling by itself can not finish fights

It can only get you into position

Striking and BJJ is what finishes fights

Striking arts and submission arts are legitimate martial arts

Etc., etc. Besides the slams, all the positioning, control ties, scrambles, work ethic, training, competition experience, and more from wrestling wins these fights.

Wait we're is Gray Maynard's fight with rob Emerson? Double TKO, from wrestling. Phone Post

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive

If there was any doubt about how stupid you are, reading your 4th grade spelling, punctuation, and syntax did away with it. Your logic is on par with a potato rolling down a hill. 

Someone said wrestling doesn't WIN fights. I not only proved it, but proved wrestling also FINISHES fights. Why does that bother you? Stuck under side control for an entire workout by a junior high school wrestler?


lmfao i like to talk some shit when it comes to control/ position (since "wrestling" just doesnt seem to translate like it used to) and i am fairly unconcerned with spelling/ syntax when ripping into a good "grinder" debate but i am man enough to admit when ive been bested. lols were def had upon reading,"Why does that bother you? Stuck under side control for an entire workout by a junior high school wrestler?" fucking GOLD my fren. and just to be clear, side control = not so much. back mount = no can defend lol
2/16/13 12:15 PM
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UGSlapshot
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ausgepicht -
Wicked smahtMF - 
punchyone - 
ausgepicht -
gamer - I hate to agree with Jones, but the fact is, Jones is right regardless

Wrestling by itself can not finish fights

It can only get you into position

Striking and BJJ is what finishes fights

Striking arts and submission arts are legitimate martial arts

Etc., etc. Besides the slams, all the positioning, control ties, scrambles, work ethic, training, competition experience, and more from wrestling wins these fights.

Wait we're is Gray Maynard's fight with rob Emerson? Double TKO, from wrestling. Phone Post

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive

If there was any doubt about how stupid you are, reading your 4th grade spelling, punctuation, and syntax did away with it. Your logic is on par with a potato rolling down a hill. 

Someone said wrestling doesn't WIN fights. I not only proved it, but proved wrestling also FINISHES fights. Why does that bother you? Stuck under side control for an entire workout by a junior high school wrestler?

The only thing you "proved" is that you're a ass. Phone Post
2/16/13 8:44 PM
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ausgepicht
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By all means, join the discussion instead of cowardly name calling. Is the subject too complex? Listen, I'm "a ass" (oh the ironing) so you should destroy my point easily. If you can't destroy the logic of "a ass" then where are you on that food chain?

Go.

2/16/13 8:55 PM
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liquidrob
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punchyone - 
GriffinQ -
punchyone -
GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/ Phone Post
Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj. Phone Post

Yes, but the set up KZ used was with his back on the mat, you wont learn that transition in wrestling
2/16/13 9:53 PM
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Br0ckFnSams0n
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Porkchop - It doesn't win Olympic medals either.
Too soon... Phone Post
2/16/13 9:58 PM
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UGCTT Molsonmuscle360
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So wait?  Does that mean GSP lost all his fights that all he really did was wrestle?  Dan Hardy was ripped off!!

2/16/13 11:47 PM
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punchyone
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liquidrob -
punchyone - 
GriffinQ -
punchyone -
GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/ Phone Post
Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj. Phone Post

Yes, but the set up KZ used was with his back on the mat, you wont learn that transition in wrestling
Actually it was set up from back mount with one hook in, garcia scrambled from that position and KZ hit the guillotine with his left side on the mat. Yes I called the twister a guillotine, cause that's what it is. Phone Post
2/16/13 11:50 PM
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punchyone
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liquidrob -
punchyone - 
GriffinQ -
punchyone -
GriffinQ -
epic hero - It's applying jiu-jitsu any way you put it, doesn't matter

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact
Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu. Phone Post
Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room. Phone Post
Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/ Phone Post
Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj. Phone Post

Yes, but the set up KZ used was with his back on the mat, you wont learn that transition in wrestling
Secondly, that transition may not be taught at the East Schmuckatelly Falls High School, but I didn't know a wrestler that couldn't hit that move just as KZ did. Phone Post

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