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BJJGround Forum >> Longer read… Anyone w/ time, thoughts appreciated


2/12/13 11:11 PM
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Sweatpant King
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Pretty new to the forums, also new to bjj other than random stuff I picked up over the years wrestling with buddies and YouTube.

I’ve been going to classes a little over a month now and since I’m still new, and certainly biased, I need a fresh perspective on something that happened over the weekend.

I was rolling with someone who is also inexperienced (only a few weeks), we have 6 minute rounds. We got into a situation very early where I had double underhooks in the half guard bottom. I tried to get to my side to work something but, as he was the larger person, he smashed me with all his weight. So I rested on the bottom til he relaxed. He never did, every time I tried to get to my side he would smash harder but never really tried to pass. After 3 1/2 minutes of this position and having the skin of my chin and neck worn down about five layers from his shoulder, I tapped and asked him to restart since we were in a stalemate. Although uncomfortable, I was resting the majority of the time and wasnt working up a sweat. He got very pissed and started talking shit and raising his voice that it was bullshit, claiming his style was to grind me out “inch by inch.” I instantly offered to restart from the same position but he threw a fit and refused. After the round ended, he continued to talk down to me and annoy the living shit out of me so we argued back and forth and I’m certain we annoyed the instructor.

My argument was that I wanted to actually roll and not sit (legitimately bored) in the same position as he attempted nothing. There are only so many rounds I can get in each night as I have a grind it out job. In hindsight I wish I would’ve let him pass and just tried working some escapes. I would never ever dreamed of tapping if it was a competition, and in that scenario, would completely understand his point of view on grinding out a win (though not my style).

All in all, my question… was I being a bitch? Or did I have a reason to be annoyed? thanks
2/12/13 11:16 PM
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ChangoBravo
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You were right. It's training not the Mundials. A couple of noobs get stuck in a position were you can't submit/or escape, but you also can't move, it's best to quit wasting time and restart.


Chango
2/12/13 11:45 PM
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krept
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Edited: 02/15/13 11:17 AM
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edit to not take away from the good discussion below. some good points.
2/12/13 11:49 PM
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gusto
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i think you were being a bitch

other guy seems stupid too, but that is no reason for you to be a bitch
2/13/13 12:06 AM
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htownbjj
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Two noobs shouldn't be free rolling for 6 minutes in the first place.

I agree it's not productive to get squished for endless minutes, but it's probably not cool to tap out either. He definitely was being a jerk, and his reaction was uncalled for.

The real problem is, like I said, this situation shouldn't even occur in the first place. Even if the instructor is letting two beginners roll, he should at least be watching for one guy smashing the partner needlessly for long periods of time. In such cases, he should just restart you guys.
2/13/13 12:28 AM
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Sweatpant King
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Sounds like it was a little of each then. Gusto I was definitely a bitch letting it get to me.. Thanks for the advice guys Phone Post
2/13/13 7:30 AM
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Jessy30
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I think you were in the right. I also agree with htownbjj. Phone Post
2/13/13 5:02 PM
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markus
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for 2 dudes that only have 2 months of training between them, and your both annoyed with each other?

your a white belt playing saulo's 1/2 guard, and hes a smash and grind it out kind of guy


thats just funny.
2/13/13 6:52 PM
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Christophr
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Don't worry about it.
2/13/13 7:05 PM
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Braxmax
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Don't tap from boredom or mild discomfort. That bored feeling you had would have been a feeling of imminent death from a fury of fists in an actual fight. Obviously if all your considering is sport bjj then it doesn't matter quite as much, but being under a guy and not being able to move or get him off is exactly the reason you should be in that position in the first place. Take your licks like a man and don't bitch tap with some ridiculous excuse about really wanting to roll. Watch old mma matches and Gracie challenges. The small guy is many times stuck on bottom for a lot longer than 3 1/2 min. Learn how to escape, stfu and train. Phone Post
2/14/13 10:41 AM
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Sweatpant King
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markus - for 2 dudes that only have 2 months of training between them, and your both annoyed with each other?

your a white belt playing saulo's 1/2 guard, and hes a smash and grind it out kind of guy


thats just funny.
Don't know the difference between saulo's half and any other version of half guard tbh.. The annoyance came from the conversation that took place afterwards and a personality clash

^^Braxmax, thanks for the honesty. wasn't trying to rationalize my decision or make a shitty excuse, but probably won't react the same way again from your post alone hah Phone Post
2/14/13 12:33 PM
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biggator
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where was your instructor?

i join the chorus of posters saying that at 1 mo each of training you shouldnt be let loose on each other. just a recipe for ... well exactly what happened or a fistfight.

but in the future i say take your lumps and say thank you sir may i have another. spending time getting smashed by a big fat asshole who doesnt know how to sub you is time well spent in bjj terms.

defending the shoulder smash and escaping/guard recovery is exactly what you should be practicing right now.

do shrimp drills. if he is smashing you dig your fingers between your face and his shoulder/bicep and pull against it. make some space and breathe with purpose and not like you are drowning.

next time you are paired with him i would pull half guard and let him get to smash mode and get back to work. only way to learn and it would piss him off if you were successful.

have fun and dont forget to ask your instructor for advice.
2/14/13 3:12 PM
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tio te
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I agree 100% with biggator^

You are never going to find a place where every training partner meets your expectation of a perfect training parter, but there is always something that you can grow from and learn in every roll. You got frustrated that you were stuck, and that is understandable, but eventually you will learn to avoid being stuck there. That day will come much sooner if you face that situation regularly.

If you legitmately believe that your partner might injure you, then avoid that person. Otherwise, leave your ego at the door and learn to embrace the uncomfortable positions. I have found that in jiu-jitsu (and life) the things that frustrate me are the things I need to face most in order to grow. As a white belt, surviving, defending, and keeping calm in bad positions should be your top priority anyways. This guy sounds like he could help you a lot.

And ask your instructor for advice!
2/14/13 3:37 PM
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triso
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You should look at this as a lesson. You need to be able to move peoples weight from the bottom regardless of their size.

So let's forget the nonsense that ensued afterward and figure out why you couldn't move him.

You are saying you had double underhooks and a fully locked half guard? We're you locking your hands in a body lock type position or were they free to move about? Did you unlock your half guard at any point?
2/14/13 8:24 PM
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Herbish1
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Still don't understand the argument of why noobs shouldn't roll and I probably never will because that's how I learned.

But tapping because you're stuck and uncomfortable is weak. Sucks the guy on top wasn't working too hard in your eyes, but maybe he wanted to work top control. It's not the end of the world to give up a pass and work sub defense and escapes from dominant positions. Phone Post
2/14/13 10:34 PM
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pcuzz
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Shouldnt have tapped, guys gets stuck and you cant sweep or submit your supposed to verbally taunt him into doing something.
2/15/13 2:23 AM
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Subzero90
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You tapped because you were stuck in a position. It's not on him to move.. You have to make him move. You won't gain respect in many clubs doing that shit.
2/15/13 3:23 AM
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TheMessiah
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Best way is to roll with upper belts so you can learn. Phone Post
2/15/13 8:53 AM
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mrgoodarmbar
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He was being a douche....you were being something...If you really wanted to train and roll various positions you could've easily let go of those double underhooks that you probably held onto for dear life. But you were afraid to work pass defense of side control defense and guard recovery. That could've been just as valuable...

BTW - you might want to consider getting rid of the underhook that is going to be your bottom elbow when you get onto your side...I think the double underhooks is keeping you too flat on your back, so your stuck underneath your opponent. However, your own focus on "winning" wouldn't allow you to do it for fear of being passed and "beaten"..He is your training partner not your adversary or your competition. Stop worrying about "winning". Just practice all the techniques from all the positions that you can.
2/16/13 8:51 AM
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DNAsmoothie
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mrgoodarmbar - He was being a douche....you were being something...If you really wanted to train and roll various positions you could've easily let go of those double underhooks that you probably held onto for dear life. But you were afraid to work pass defense of side control defense and guard recovery. That could've been just as valuable...

BTW - you might want to consider getting rid of the underhook that is going to be your bottom elbow when you get onto your side...I think the double underhooks is keeping you too flat on your back, so your stuck underneath your opponent. However, your own focus on "winning" wouldn't allow you to do it for fear of being passed and "beaten"..He is your training partner not your adversary or your competition. Stop worrying about "winning". Just practice all the techniques from all the positions that you can.
I agree with the point you make at the end of your post. This is training, it doesn't matter if you loose a position or get subbed in training so long as you are progressing... Phone Post
2/16/13 9:36 AM
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SiuHung
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If you've been doing BJJ less than a year, you both need to stop rolling to win and start rolling to learn. IT's never wrong to tap out and start over, but turning a roll with an other newb into a stalemate deathmatch isn't productive at all either.
2/16/13 11:20 AM
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2 rocks pounding against each other only makes them crumble

2/17/13 3:06 PM
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Sweatpant King
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Didnt think of it like that before, but your right I was definitely too concerned about winning and ended up bitching out bc of it.

Thanks for the responses and I'll for sure use some of the advice I got here Phone Post
2/17/13 3:55 PM
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Alabama Man
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i would suggest being less concerning about "winning" against other white belts from the death grip half guard and be worried about continuing training and showing up every time you can. the majority of white belts don't make it to purple belt so i would be concerned about that.

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