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UnderGround Forums >> Bas: Machida doesn't have a lot of weapons.


2/15/13 6:28 AM
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PointyShinyBurn
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Did most of you actually read what Bas said?
I'm gonna get a lot of heat now. Machida doesn't have a lot of weapons. Whatever he does, he does really well. He's got great distance, great accuracy, but his attack is always the same. It's a cross, or a kick and a cross. When you push him, he always moves to the same side. So, if Dan would look at that and just bullrush him, he could throw a big hand there and that could stop him."

How on earth can you read that as "MACHIDA SUCKS, NER NER NER". What Bas is describing is exactly what Shogun did when he stopped him with one punch.
2/15/13 7:08 AM
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ManWithTheIronFists
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Bas Rutten has alot of shit that comes out his mouth.
2/15/13 9:18 AM
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saemskin
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bas has his fighters confused... left inside leg kick, hard overhand right. sound familiar?

Machida is one of the most dynamic strikers we have ever seen in the octagon.
2/15/13 9:45 AM
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TheFatalBlow
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No weapons?! Really?! Bas has to be trolling Phone Post
2/15/13 10:18 AM
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PatrickVilone
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if machida doesnt have a lot, then Dan has few...

Everyone knows whats coming from Dan, that huge right hand. Everyone can see it. He leans to the side when he's preparing to throw it. Do you think Lyoto isn't gonna take advantage of that? With his speed, range and accuracy?

Dan is a great wrestler, solid ground game, slower than the average LHW, very predictable when it comes to striking, primarily throws punches, and a world-class clinch game..

Lyoto is a diverse striker, with amazing knees, great kicks, good punches, one of the most unique styles, OUTSTANDING footwork, speed, he uses his range like no other, underrated takedowns and ground game, uses his trips very well from the clinch...

What does Dan have that Lyoto doesn't?
All that I see is the power. And probably a better ground game.

Lyoto is my man, so this is a bias outlook, but the fight is gonna play out like so...

Lyoto is too elusive and Dan is too strong, Lyoto is going to try and keep his range early, I doubt they are going to be brawling like shogun and dan, expect to see vintage lyoto, movement and diverse striking, that knee to the body from a mile away will be utilized alot in this fight, but maybe not due to the risk of Dans right hand, lyoto is going to place this fight safe. stick & move. He knows he's faster than Dan, and he knows Dan is stronger than him. Expect a decision going Lyotos way, unless he lands some crazy strike that puts Dan to sleep..

Now I think we all know Dans strategy H-MOTHER-FUCKING-BOMB!!!! That huge right hand he has is unmatched by anyone else! His clinch game and judo are top of the tier. Also his ground control and GnP are wonderful,if Dan wins it'll be by KO probably early in the fight, or he wins by hugging Lyoto like Rampage did, or lyoto can't stop his takedowns and it turns into a 3 round GSP-like fight.

SUPER EXCITED for this fight!! I would love to see Hendo vs Jones, which should be scheduled for 4.27 anyways... but I just think Lyoto takes this one by decision or knockout. He's too fast and elusive. Don't get me wrong though. If lyoto strays from game-plan for just a second it could be lights out. But THE DRAGON WANTS THAT BELT BACK BABY!!!!
2/15/13 11:06 AM
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SQUEEZIE
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
GodSaveTheReem -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
GodSaveTheReem - Ever since the shogun fight i've felt that Machida, of all the high level guys, is the worst at in-fight game planning. As in, if Plan A doesn't work he has no Plan B. Luckily for him Plan A almost always works, but when faced with adversity he doesn't do so hot.
Shogun beat him up in the first fight and he got lucky, Machida didn't change his attack in the least in the 2nd fight and he got KO'd. Against Jones, once Jones took him to the ground and hit him in the face he had no response...wasnt much of a threat off his back and got bullied around.
Amazing Plan A, not much of a Plan B.
What? He changed everything he was doing in round 3 against Rampage and owned him. So he couldn't recover from getting thrown down and elbowed by the much bigger Jon Jones who also happens to be champ and that shows he has something wrong with adjusting midfights?

I think you're reaching. Phone Post

The Rampage fight I didn't see so i can't really comment on it, but from everything I heard the first two rounds were very close so i don't think his Plan A failed as much as the judges just weren't on his side.
What I meant in the Jones fight was that even before he got elbowed he didn't really show anything off his back and just kind of laid there (i believe Jones himself stated his surprise at how non-threatening Machida was there). Even when he did get back to his feet he was still trying to do the same exact thing as Round 1 even though Jones had already adjusted.
Because of how good he is there have only been a few times in his career he has ever been in trouble, but when that happens he has never shown the ability to recover well. In my mind that is why he will never be on the same level as the all time greats like Anderson/Fedor, fighters who even when it goes wrong still find a way to win.
So you're basing all of this on him not being able to threaten Jones off of his back and being too hurt to recover after? Jones is a terrific talent, much bigger, and had done that exact same thing to everyone he's been on the ground with in mma except for 10 seconds against Vitor.

How about that triangle he fought through against Tito? He may not have the chin or durability of Fedor or Silva but I don't think getting beat on by someone 3 or 4 inches taller and 20+ pounds heavier shows a lack of heart. Phone Post

being three inches taller is matters that much? and how much did they way when in the cage that night since you know?
2/15/13 11:14 AM
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snerdog
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Powerful wrestlers bullrushing Machida have had a lot of success . . . oh, wait.

Love Bas, one of my favorites and if he thinks Dan could win, I'm all for it. I just thought that comment was a little odd.
2/15/13 11:20 AM
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gusto
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PointyShinyBurn - Did most of you actually read what Bas said?
I'm gonna get a lot of heat now. Machida doesn't have a lot of weapons. Whatever he does, he does really well. He's got great distance, great accuracy, but his attack is always the same. It's a cross, or a kick and a cross. When you push him, he always moves to the same side. So, if Dan would look at that and just bullrush him, he could throw a big hand there and that could stop him."

How on earth can you read that as "MACHIDA SUCKS, NER NER NER". What Bas is describing is exactly what Shogun did when he stopped him with one punch.

it isnt that he said he sucks it is that his analysis is poor
2/15/13 11:42 AM
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Lasko
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I love Dan Henderson but I see Machida countering a missed h bomb. Phone Post
2/15/13 11:50 AM
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Lobo8
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Fitzsimmons Shift - People sleep on Hendo's stand-up as being somehow crude, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with having the fundamentals of a hard right hand blow down pat. (His left hook is devastating too, of course, although his preferred stance doesn't often allow him to make use of it.)

For the rest, there's a strong clinch, above average freestyle wrestling and an under-rated ground game. (Shogun's a BJJ black belt -- putting him in a crucifix was no mean feat.)

It's not fair to say Dan is "one-dimensional" just because he's good at knocking people down with his power hand and does it often.

Hes a Good fighter for sure and saying hes one dimensional is ridiculous. But this machida matchup is really really bad for him. No way he wins this one.
2/15/13 12:23 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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SQUEEZIE -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
GodSaveTheReem -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
GodSaveTheReem - Ever since the shogun fight i've felt that Machida, of all the high level guys, is the worst at in-fight game planning. As in, if Plan A doesn't work he has no Plan B. Luckily for him Plan A almost always works, but when faced with adversity he doesn't do so hot.
Shogun beat him up in the first fight and he got lucky, Machida didn't change his attack in the least in the 2nd fight and he got KO'd. Against Jones, once Jones took him to the ground and hit him in the face he had no response...wasnt much of a threat off his back and got bullied around.
Amazing Plan A, not much of a Plan B.
What? He changed everything he was doing in round 3 against Rampage and owned him. So he couldn't recover from getting thrown down and elbowed by the much bigger Jon Jones who also happens to be champ and that shows he has something wrong with adjusting midfights?

I think you're reaching. Phone Post

The Rampage fight I didn't see so i can't really comment on it, but from everything I heard the first two rounds were very close so i don't think his Plan A failed as much as the judges just weren't on his side.
What I meant in the Jones fight was that even before he got elbowed he didn't really show anything off his back and just kind of laid there (i believe Jones himself stated his surprise at how non-threatening Machida was there). Even when he did get back to his feet he was still trying to do the same exact thing as Round 1 even though Jones had already adjusted.
Because of how good he is there have only been a few times in his career he has ever been in trouble, but when that happens he has never shown the ability to recover well. In my mind that is why he will never be on the same level as the all time greats like Anderson/Fedor, fighters who even when it goes wrong still find a way to win.
So you're basing all of this on him not being able to threaten Jones off of his back and being too hurt to recover after? Jones is a terrific talent, much bigger, and had done that exact same thing to everyone he's been on the ground with in mma except for 10 seconds against Vitor.

How about that triangle he fought through against Tito? He may not have the chin or durability of Fedor or Silva but I don't think getting beat on by someone 3 or 4 inches taller and 20+ pounds heavier shows a lack of heart. Phone Post

being three inches taller is matters that much? and how much did they way when in the cage that night since you know?
Jones has said he weighs 225+ in the cage, Machida has said he basically doesn't cut any weight (probably just a couple pounds for that fight) because he doesn't like the way he feels and against Bader weighed 202.

I'm not knocking Jones at all, he makes the weight so I have no problem with it. He's in the right division. It's just a combination of a big lhw that can easily and probably will be a hw and a very small lhw. Machida could fight at middleweight and not even be one of it's biggest guys, he probably is just waiting for Silva to stop fighting there. Phone Post
2/15/13 12:29 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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PointyShinyBurn - Did most of you actually read what Bas said?
I'm gonna get a lot of heat now. Machida doesn't have a lot of weapons. Whatever he does, he does really well. He's got great distance, great accuracy, but his attack is always the same. It's a cross, or a kick and a cross. When you push him, he always moves to the same side. So, if Dan would look at that and just bullrush him, he could throw a big hand there and that could stop him."

How on earth can you read that as "MACHIDA SUCKS, NER NER NER". What Bas is describing is exactly what Shogun did when he stopped him with one punch.
What's funny is right before the ko Machida landed a solid knee to the body and Bas never mentioned that. Or the takedowns. It was a case of Machida getting too aggressive in the pocket against a heavier puncher.

Machida avoids being predictable with all of the feints he makes during a fight imo. If he was easy to predict you wouldn't have so many fighters get in there and have no idea what to do. Phone Post
2/15/13 12:30 PM
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ausgepicht
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Freddie Gavaria -

http://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/14/3989270/ufc-157-lyoto-machida-dan-henderson-bas-rutten-mma

Kind of surprising coming from Bas. If Machida is one dimensional then what exactly is Hendo? Also, despite what he says, rushing Lyoto is FAR from a good idea. 

Bas is right, from a technical point of view. If you pull Machida's nutsack off your eyes you'll see better. He has a straight left and a footsweep. What Machida does so brilliantly is in terms of timing, footwork, tactics and strategy. Simple fighters think in terms of techniques. Great, masterful fighters think like Machida and that is what makes Machida one of the best.

The problem with the sort is people like you who can't admire a fighter, be a huge fan, or even think he's the best ever without adding a religious fervor and zealousness to your ability to perceive. You guys are ready to strap bombs to your back and blow up a market in the name of your fighter.

Stop being so biased you throw all ability to be objective out the window. You want religion? Go to church and fuck off. Phone Post
2/15/13 12:48 PM
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hubris
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I'd love to see Bas spar with Lyoto

just some light contact
2/15/13 2:55 PM
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DoomFarmer
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Dan has heavy hands and benefits from a brawl.

Far fewer weapons than Machida currently.

You Guys bitching about people coming down on Bas' opinion know it too. Phone Post
2/15/13 2:55 PM
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DoomFarmer
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ausgepicht -
Freddie Gavaria -

http://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/14/3989270/ufc-157-lyoto-machida-dan-henderson-bas-rutten-mma

Kind of surprising coming from Bas. If Machida is one dimensional then what exactly is Hendo? Also, despite what he says, rushing Lyoto is FAR from a good idea. 

Bas is right, from a technical point of view. If you pull Machida's nutsack off your eyes you'll see better. He has a straight left and a footsweep. What Machida does so brilliantly is in terms of timing, footwork, tactics and strategy. Simple fighters think in terms of techniques. Great, masterful fighters think like Machida and that is what makes Machida one of the best.

The problem with the sort is people like you who can't admire a fighter, be a huge fan, or even think he's the best ever without adding a religious fervor and zealousness to your ability to perceive. You guys are ready to strap bombs to your back and blow up a market in the name of your fighter.

Stop being so biased you throw all ability to be objective out the window. You want religion? Go to church and fuck off. Phone Post
You sound as dramatic as everyone else. Phone Post
2/15/13 2:56 PM
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inf0
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If anything, the fighter who didn't have a lot of weapons was Bas himself. What is he even talking about?

 

2/15/13 3:11 PM
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Wade Garrett
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Edited: 02/15/13 3:13 PM
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Brock Lesnar cut Alistar Overeem and dropped Heath Herring with punches. Let us now discuss the K-1 level striking skills of Brock Lesnar.
2/15/13 3:12 PM
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Neil Funk
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If Bas says it, I'll roll with it
2/15/13 3:17 PM
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bhealthy
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Very likely Bas is trolling. Remember, he singlehandedly destroyed kimbo's mma career by making damn sure he never developed even a basic ground game. ZERO. no GnP defense, no, no pancrase reverals, no sweeps, no subs.

sadly, Bas may be remembered for "preparing", and then shamelessly marching the most one dimensional, unprepared mma player in a long time into battle.


the only other explanation could be that he has vivid memories of HIS OWN nightmarish EXPERIENCEbeing held down for the majority of his match against a roided-wrestler in a ufc-brand championship fight!
2/15/13 3:19 PM
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Wasa-B
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"Whatever he does, he does really well. He's got great distance, great accuracy, but his attack is always the same. It's a cross, or a kick and a cross. When you push him, he always moves to the same side. So, if Dan would look at that and just bullrush him, he could throw a big hand there and that could stop him."

Well, he does have the knee to the leever and also mixes it up with kicks from both legs iirc and from low and high and also has those sweeps and does flurry when opp presents. So yeah, i guess he does have a versatile attack but his main weapons are that above imo though of course Dan really only has one main weapon too.

Machida also goes for the td when there too.
2/15/13 3:28 PM
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Wasa-B
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WiqedWhite - 
ufc98newb -
WiqedWhite -  Jack Slack is furious right now Phone Post

Jack Slack:

"Lyoto Machida is as fine a striker as has ever stepped into the octagon. A master of movement and timing despite his limited move set and technically mediocre kickboxing, Machida has shown how much of striking is in the intangibles and not in how pretty one's technique looks on it's own."

Ka-Boom Phone Post

Jack is great but not without his own bias and limits.

He went into great analytical length about how/why Chael was able to "outstrike" Anderson but many of us suspected why and it was confirmed in the rematch.

I dont see Machida as technically mediocre kickboxing, he's elite level karate adapated MMA striking. Who has more tools in their arsenal? Anderson, yeah, who else?
2/15/13 3:31 PM
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Wasa-B
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I agree people get too panty bunchy too quick but really, who other than Anderson has a super diverse arsenal that are their go to things?

Jones. Yes.

Aldo. No. He has a very "basic" tool kit: leg kicks, simply punches.

GSP. Yes but more than Machida? He's got the jab, punch/kick combos but does he have more go to stuff than Machida?
2/15/13 3:32 PM
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jimbonice
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I had to come back to this thread. I've been listening to Bas since pride, and I don't think I've ever heard him say anything stupider. Phone Post
2/15/13 5:00 PM
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Forrest Spliffn
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Machida has more weapons but is more conscious about being hit than Dan.

Machida has superior movement but likes to go in and out and often doesn't commit like he could.

Sometimes I feel Machida worries a lot about losing. Dan seems to be mentally over the outcome and shows up with the sole intent of punching his opponents head off.

My gut tells me machida will win but Henderson has proven what a true G he is too many times for me to discount him in anyway.

Dan needs to watch those incoming kicks and lyoto needs to avoid getting clipped at all costs.

I'm excited for this one, it could go either way. Phone Post

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