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3/20/13 7:20 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Finally broke down and googled Yeager's Bio, I knew he was a clown, but have never cared enough to look.

Of course it included my favorite misrepresentational (?) phrase "trained Special Forces Teams"

Trained them in what, I always wonder.

A few weeks ago, DIA tech collection guys gave us a power point presentation on their capabilities. After that we were "trained" on that knowledge.

I noticed an OG tactical instructor used that phrase in his bio as well.

Awesome.
3/20/13 7:36 PM
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Gforce
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The peak of his CV involved a short stint as the chief of a TWO MAN police department. Yes, a guy who got arrested by him and his partner could have legitimately said "you got the whole fucking force after me, huh." He was fired from both that job and his other police job.

In his defense, small PDs in the Southeast are notorious for corrupt hiring practices. Yes, the Northeast has its problems with its union shops. Still, it's a nasty double-edged sword. When the elected sheriff changes, he can clear the place out and fill all of the jobs with his friends. Have a painting business as a side gig? Refuse to paint his brother's house on your day off for the cost of materials, and you are out on your ass.

There is an anecdote out there on the Web purporting to be from an ODA that was sent to train at his facility by higher command that didn't vet things properly. The guy posting it basically said that they realize soon after they got there that he was full of shit, and just did their own thing at his range facility.

For those of us who don't know what we are talking about,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLZL8wtuRmA
3/20/13 7:45 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Well he is certainly publicity savvy Phone Post
3/20/13 8:32 PM
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sreiter
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awilson82 - 
sreiter - worse stress i had when shooting was when instructor was firing live rounds behind me.

Was it Yeager? lol


Don't the military do that to get you used to gun fire?

I guy I knew who was in Nam told me a story of crawling under barb wire in boot, and notice the 50 was at a angle. He told the DI who said shut up. Turn out, they ended up shooting someone
3/20/13 8:35 PM
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sreiter
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Jedburgh1 -  Well he is certainly publicity savvy Phone Post

you didnt see his "i kill start killing people if we have a AWB" video ?
3/20/13 8:38 PM
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sreiter
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http://digitaljournal.com/article/341055

@ 32 second mark
3/20/13 8:47 PM
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Jedburgh1
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sreiter -
awilson82 - 
sreiter - worse stress i had when shooting was when instructor was firing live rounds behind me.

Was it Yeager? lol


Don't the military do that to get you used to gun fire?

I guy I knew who was in Nam told me a story of crawling under barb wire in boot, and notice the 50 was at a angle. He told the DI who said shut up. Turn out, they ended up shooting someone
Yeah they lock those guns down though, these days there is no possibility of them being able to hit you.

It may be a viable technique in very small trustworthy groups.

I posted that video on my YouTube channel of doing turn drills over our new medics shoulder Phone Post
3/20/13 8:50 PM
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RowdyYates
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for later
3/20/13 9:18 PM
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TheAssMurderer
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IP - I tried overnight backpacking for the first time recently. The weight of the pack + hilly terrain kicked my ass. It did not feel like a leisurely stroll.

Of course this has nothing to do with tactical shooting or gunfighting, but I wanted to let you know that it gets better. When I first began backpacking, I thought I would die on some of those trips. After while, you realize it's "all in your head". All hills become the same ( i mean hills, not mountains)- 45 lbs becomes 10 lbs, vice versa. Some trips are really weight critical, but it won't matter what you're carrying most of the time.

While you'll want to be well nourished and basically ready for the trip, keep doing it and soon it will be you kicking that hilly terrain's ass.

3/20/13 9:37 PM
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Gforce
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Jedburgh1 -  Well he is certainly publicity savvy Phone Post

Absolutely. He's from the same school as Gabe Suarez. Any publicity (even negative) is better than none at all.
3/20/13 9:41 PM
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awilson82
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Gforce -
awilson82 - 
sreiter - worse stress i had when shooting was when instructor was firing live rounds behind me.

Was it Yeager? lol


You guys beat me to it. There are some awesome pictures out there of him walking the line beating everyone with boxing gloves, choking people out with RNCs while firing live ammo, etc.

Mike from ENDO Tactical (the guy who made the photo above) has a blog that is basically a Yeager watch. Some of the shit is priceless.
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2012/03/08/tactical-response-still-puts-photographers-down-range/
I love Endo Mikes blog. Phone Post
3/20/13 9:54 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post
3/20/13 10:24 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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IP - I tried overnight backpacking for the first time recently. The weight of the pack + hilly terrain kicked my ass. It did not feel like a leisurely stroll.

Much of your exhaustion is caused by the shock of the activity. Your body is not in the mode for it and your mental, musculo-skeletal and nevous systems are all kinda fucked up.

When I used to bowhunt regularly (ground hunt/stalking) it took me a couple days to start to like my body was moving in a coordinated, efficient manner.Usually the 3rd and forth days were very enjoyable. Afew weeks ago I went on a short bowhunt and just the act of moving/climbing slow and stalking for a couple hours had my legs shaking and breathing hard. Several months ago I went on a rifle hunt. I was working out consistently hard kettlebell&weight vest workout twice/week, TRX once/week and jiujitsu twice/week....but then got a 40lb mouflan ewe on my pack and my ass is wornout climbing couple hundred feet of rough terrain. Add post adrenaline dump and ~100yds of low crawling is no wonder. 1st day was tiring just with rifle and packframe and gear (~20lbs) but second day could roam allday at moderate pace cruisiong gulches and hills and occasional groucho rushes to concealment, etc.

Hunters getting ready for big hunts will train-up for it by hiking, rucking, etc. Jedburgh1 doe maintenance training of "...6 miles @ 45lbs and a 15min per mile pace once a week."
3/20/13 10:29 PM
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sreiter
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Jedburgh1 -  Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post

#1 Marc Denny -

I trained with him @ Inosanto's...I have a million stories about him, but one of my favorites was when Dan asked him to help demo something.. normally, every forms a circle around dab to watch... as soon a Marc got in the middle of the circle, everyone took a few steps back...as if on que..lol

everyone knew who shit he was and no one wanted to get hit.

Another time, we shared a room in the PI (he was the only person their I knew) at a Leo Gaje training camp.

Gaje writes him a note that say "you need a LOT of work"... he literally cried and tore it up...

He's a huckster at best.
3/21/13 12:24 AM
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Gforce
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Jedburgh1 -  Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post

Most of them come from being KICKED OUT of military/LE in some form or another. Yeager got fired from 2 PDs (as I said before, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as the employment practices are pretty shady in his area).

Suarez, however, deserves no benefit of the doubt. He got thrown off the force for defrauding workers comp. Turns out that Gabe was teaching classes left and right while out on paid disability for a line of duty injury. Dude did some serious cell time, but his plea allowed him to avoid eating a felony, which preserves his right to own firearms.

Speaking of affiliations with Yeager, add the forum's own Frogman 211 to the list. He graduate BUD/S, but got the BOOT from Naval Special Warfare before earning his trident (there is a probation--I think that it's 6 months--before the trident and SEAL status are awarded). He got the BOOT from the forum for threatening the family of another forum member here.

The level of commonality for all of these guys is amazing.

1. Exact opposite of the "silent professional." Constant braggadocio, black dealer of death, etc.
2. Speaking of attention, as we mentioned before, they can't generate positive press, so they figure that negative attention is better than none at all.
3. Received the motherfucking BOOT for whatever public service organization that they claim as their crown jewel credential.
4. They have fans that worship them as demi-god like figures. Both guys have their own online forums where anything but the company line dogma posted by their apparatchiks is deleted.

This is why I have said all along that there is room for you in this industry, assuming that it is not destroyed by gun bans.
3/21/13 1:04 AM
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Lurken
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sreiter - 
Jedburgh1 -  Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post

#1 Marc Denny -

I trained with him @ Inosanto's...I have a million stories about him, but one of my favorites was when Dan asked him to help demo something.. normally, every forms a circle around dab to watch... as soon a Marc got in the middle of the circle, everyone took a few steps back...as if on que..lol

everyone knew who shit he was and no one wanted to get hit.

Another time, we shared a room in the PI (he was the only person their I knew) at a Leo Gaje training camp.

Gaje writes him a note that say "you need a LOT of work"... he literally cried and tore it up...

He's a huckster at best.



Then fight him and whip his ass fat boy. You are a fucking nobody
3/21/13 1:15 AM
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Mr. Wright
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Lurken - 
sreiter - 
Jedburgh1 -  Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post

#1 Marc Denny -

I trained with him @ Inosanto's...I have a million stories about him, but one of my favorites was when Dan asked him to help demo something.. normally, every forms a circle around dab to watch... as soon a Marc got in the middle of the circle, everyone took a few steps back...as if on que..lol

everyone knew who shit he was and no one wanted to get hit.

Another time, we shared a room in the PI (he was the only person their I knew) at a Leo Gaje training camp.

Gaje writes him a note that say "you need a LOT of work"... he literally cried and tore it up...

He's a huckster at best.



Then fight him and whip his ass fat boy. You are a fucking nobody

3/21/13 2:09 AM
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sreiter
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Lurken - 
sreiter - 
Jedburgh1 -  Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post

#1 Marc Denny -

I trained with him @ Inosanto's...I have a million stories about him, but one of my favorites was when Dan asked him to help demo something.. normally, every forms a circle around dab to watch... as soon a Marc got in the middle of the circle, everyone took a few steps back...as if on que..lol

everyone knew who shit he was and no one wanted to get hit.

Another time, we shared a room in the PI (he was the only person their I knew) at a Leo Gaje training camp.

Gaje writes him a note that say "you need a LOT of work"... he literally cried and tore it up...

He's a huckster at best.



Then fight him and whip his ass fat boy. You are a fucking nobody

He pussied out of fighting me more times then you have. Now STFU and STFD and have respect for JEDBURGH1's thread
3/21/13 6:42 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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Gforce - 
Jedburgh1 -  Googling Suarez sent me down the rabbit hole of corrupt instructors.

They keep our contract courses very well vetted these days, had no idea the shooting class industry was so bereft of integrity out there.

I always thought George, the blog guy at Madogre was a clown, turns out he's affiliated with Yeager too. Where do these morons spring up from Phone Post

Most of them come from being KICKED OUT of military/LE in some form or another. Yeager got fired from 2 PDs (as I said before, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as the employment practices are pretty shady in his area).

Suarez, however, deserves no benefit of the doubt. He got thrown off the force for defrauding workers comp. Turns out that Gabe was teaching classes left and right while out on paid disability for a line of duty injury. Dude did some serious cell time, but his plea allowed him to avoid eating a felony, which preserves his right to own firearms.

Speaking of affiliations with Yeager, add the forum's own Frogman 211 to the list. He graduate BUD/S, but got the BOOT from Naval Special Warfare before earning his trident (there is a probation--I think that it's 6 months--before the trident and SEAL status are awarded). He got the BOOT from the forum for threatening the family of another forum member here.

The level of commonality for all of these guys is amazing.

1. Exact opposite of the "silent professional." Constant braggadocio, black dealer of death, etc.
2. Speaking of attention, as we mentioned before, they can't generate positive press, so they figure that negative attention is better than none at all.
3. Received the motherfucking BOOT for whatever public service organization that they claim as their crown jewel credential.
4. They have fans that worship them as demi-god like figures. Both guys have their own online forums where anything but the company line dogma posted by their apparatchiks is deleted.

This is why I have said all along that there is room for you in this industry, assuming that it is not destroyed by gun bans.

Things are much different now, after BUD/s, guys are shipped off to Jump school and immediately after that SQT (which is like 6 1/2 months long). It used to be that 6 months after you graduate from BUD/s you would then begin STT - being that he never even got to STT, he has maybe 7 weeks of actual shooting experience (in BUD/s). In other words, the guy has no experience whatsoever. 

Yeager talks about his time in Iraq as a contractor, but didn't he completely bitch out during an ambush?

3/21/13 8:58 AM
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Jedburgh1
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Ah frogman, now famous for murdering civilians Phone Post
3/21/13 9:23 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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As long as we're talking about frauds who make bank training fools, I'll throw in Rob Pincus. Fucking terrible. Every part of his pistol craft is based on nonsense, he has no tactical experience (but tactical reasoning for everything he does), his technique is fucking terrible, and get this - he refuses to demo shooting drills at speed in class because he doesn't want to "show off" or "be a distraction" or whatever. He also passes every single student in his classes because he doesn't want them to doubt their shooting skills in case they ever have to use them. Can you believe that shit?
3/21/13 10:04 AM
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TheHouse
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I always wondered how someone who hasn't had the military experience would get into the field of specialized trainer. I mean what if "joe" had never been in the military, but had the right mindset or the right technical/tactical prowess for training people. Just because someone hasn't experienced a firefight, does that mean they don't have the competency of developing strategies or training methods to do well in that situation? Phone Post
3/21/13 10:14 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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TheHouse -  I always wondered how someone who hasn't had the military experience would get into the field of specialized trainer. I mean what if "joe" had never been in the military, but had the right mindset or the right technical/tactical prowess for training people. Just because someone hasn't experienced a firefight, does that mean they don't have the competency of developing strategies or training methods to do well in that situation? Phone Post

I'd like Jed's opinion on this for sure.

However, I think you can separate it into two categories: Technical and tactical. I think that certainly there are people out there who can teach you to shoot who have never been in a gun fight. But they better be good shooters themselves, know what I mean?

Likewise, there are probably brilliant tacticians who aren't world-beating shooters.

However, I sure as hell am not going to take technical advice from someone who can't shoot, and I'm not going to listen to tactical advice from someone with no meaningful experience. Of course there is the obvious exception of those who have learned accepted techniques and who are accredited instructors. But when someone like Pincus - with no accreditations, relying solely on his own tactical deep thoughts - tries to teach tactics I think it's a joke.
3/21/13 10:18 AM
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gravedigger
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Rhymenoceros I think we discussed Pincus awhile back on this forum and kind of disagreed. I took a Combat Focus shooting class by him in New York. I thought the instruction was good and I am a fan.......cant remember now at this point did he show drills at speed and get his hits. I think so but not 100% been a minute.
I do like his theory behind Combat Focus Shooting. Good to listen to. I also think you can find insturctors who are not as "famous" and get good instruction out of them also for a fraction of the cost.
3/21/13 10:33 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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gravedigger - Rhymenoceros I think we discussed Pincus awhile back on this forum and kind of disagreed. I took a Combat Focus shooting class by him in New York. I thought the instruction was good and I am a fan.......cant remember now at this point did he show drills at speed and get his hits. I think so but not 100% been a minute.
I do like his theory behind Combat Focus Shooting. Good to listen to. I also think you can find insturctors who are not as "famous" and get good instruction out of them also for a fraction of the cost.

Yep, I remember.

I'm not saying his theories are poorly reasoned, and I'm certainly not saying they're poorly verbalized. However, that doesn't mean he is correct.

For example, his insistence on training to act surprised before drawing the gun. Why not just train to draw the gun? Why ingrain the habit of flinching et al before going to the gun? I know he has some reasoning, but I think he's wrong, and we both have the same (lack of) tactical credentials to back up our claims.

I'm sure he's forced to demo from time to time, but I can find all his posts on M4C.com where he gives his crazy rationale for why he doesn't - and tells his instructors not to - demo in class. It's pure pre-UFC "don't expose the fraud in the star-spangled gi" TMA stuff. I'd prefer not to dig through that garbage, but it's out there in case anyone cares to look for it.

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