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2/17/13 6:48 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Everything in this thread is wrong.

Just kidding, I just didn't want to be inconsistent with the way I usually come into one of these threads.

In to actually learn something...
2/17/13 6:49 PM
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bravo45
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That's why we didn't talk about pistols, you fancy motherfucker.

I get to be the expert in this thread.
2/17/13 6:50 PM
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Stuart Scott's Eyeball
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Subd Phone Post
2/17/13 7:39 PM
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cfraze
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In Phone Post
2/17/13 8:00 PM
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bluejays
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In Phone Post
2/17/13 8:04 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Edited: 02/17/13 10:03 PM
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Edit: stupid fucking questions - wont happen again. Sorry.

2/17/13 8:10 PM
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Jdoc777
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In Phone Post
2/17/13 8:32 PM
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bravo45
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^^Did you read the thread? I advocate using a vertical fore grip; there is one pictured on almost every gun I put up.

The VFG closer to the magwell is much more unstable and doesn't give you any sort of 'speed' advantage.

I don't need to critique that cat's gun because there's nothing wrong with the way it's set up. The SCAR itself was the answer to a problem we didn't have. It's a good gun that we don't need.

It is clear to me that you don't have enough time on the gun to ask educated questions in this thread. You are always welcome to post in my threads, but your questions here don't make any sense.

Pay close attention and I promise you will learn.
2/17/13 8:41 PM
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TKjr
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In for learning Phone Post
2/17/13 8:44 PM
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MrFluffyHippo
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What's your stance on free floating fore-ends/quad rails? If shooting at 300yards and close is the added accuracy beneficial? Phone Post
2/17/13 8:51 PM
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bravo45
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I don't like quad rails because they are unnecessary weight, and there is no reason anyone ever needs that much rail space.

Free-floating fore-ends for a carbine system are not necessary because you aren't shooting groups from a bench. You are gunfighting, which means you are either shooting (hopefully from behind cover) moving, or communicating.

You are equal parts methodical and aggressive.

If you can shoot good, tight groups from where you're at in a gunfight, your position sucks.

Accuracy takes lives, cover saves them.
2/17/13 8:59 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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You said that 3-Gunners use a "thumb over" grip. I'm not a 3-Gunner, but the videos I can find of the best 3-gunners all show them using a grip that to my uneducated eyes looks quite a bit like yours, but without the foregrip obviously.

By way of example, here's Daniel Horner's rifle grip:
http://youtu.be/s1zVYv6zxkk?t=2m38s

Clint Upchurch, Taran Butler, Jerry Miculek, etc all seem to have a similar grip to Horner. In fact, the only person who I can find who uses a thumb-over grip is Matt Burkett. I thought it prudent to re-calibrate your definition of a 3-gun grip before you go throwing those dudes under the bus for whatever reason.
2/17/13 8:59 PM
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Keep if professional
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bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - Bravo45, have you taken any carbine training courses? I'm thinking of taking a tactical carbine course and possibly a small unit tactics course. What's your opinion on the utility of these and would you recommend any?

I have taken courses at MidSouth and other more exclusive places.

I would highly recommend a carbine course.

I don't know any reputable instructors teaching SUT- courses though.

Any idea where I could train in something like SWAT style entry in a team? I've read a few books about it, but it really seems like something you need hands on with.
2/17/13 9:02 PM
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theken206
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Thoughts/experiences on the .270/277 class of calibers like the 6.8 SPC etc, VS/over 5.56?
2/17/13 9:07 PM
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bravo45
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Rhymenoceros - You said that 3-Gunners use a "thumb over" grip. I'm not a 3-Gunner, but the videos I can find of the best 3-gunners all show them using a grip that to my uneducated eyes looks quite a bit like yours, but without the foregrip obviously.

By way of example, here's Daniel Horner's rifle grip:
http://youtu.be/s1zVYv6zxkk?t=2m38s

Clint Upchurch, Taran Butler, Jerry Miculek, etc all seem to have a similar grip to Horner. In fact, the only person who I can find who uses a thumb-over grip is Matt Burkett. I thought it prudent to re-calibrate your definition of a 3-gun grip before you go throwing those dudes under the bus for whatever reason.

I said that the TOB grip is popular with many 3-gunners. It is also popular with Costa and Haley and some of their disciples.

Don't mistake me for saying that competition shooters are not real shooters. If Jerry Miculek ever came out with some shit that was in direct opposition to what I was using, I would definitely re-evaluate my shooting techniques because I have a lot of respect for guys like him, Leatham, Jarrett etc.

AMU is a grey area. Many of them are excellent shooters, but just because they joined the Army doesn't make them expert gunfighters. Also, keep in mind these guys are shooting custom made, custom tuned rifles.
2/17/13 9:10 PM
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bravo45
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Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - Bravo45, have you taken any carbine training courses? I'm thinking of taking a tactical carbine course and possibly a small unit tactics course. What's your opinion on the utility of these and would you recommend any?

I have taken courses at MidSouth and other more exclusive places.

I would highly recommend a carbine course.

I don't know any reputable instructors teaching SUT- courses though.

Any idea where I could train in something like SWAT style entry in a team? I've read a few books about it, but it really seems like something you need hands on with.

What would be the practical application for this?

CQB is very difficult and very dangerous. I never advocate anyone 'clearing rooms' for home defense.

Friends of mine that have small children in other rooms, I sit down with them and set up a home defense plan that works, with a minimum of room clearing, because amateur room clearing is a good way to get your gun taken from you, or killed.
2/17/13 9:11 PM
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bravo45
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theken206 - Thoughts/experiences on the .270/277 class of calibers like the 6.8 SPC etc, VS/over 5.56?

Those are good calibers, but there is nothing wrong with 5.56. It has taken life and will continue to do so for quite some time.
2/17/13 9:16 PM
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Keep if professional
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bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - Bravo45, have you taken any carbine training courses? I'm thinking of taking a tactical carbine course and possibly a small unit tactics course. What's your opinion on the utility of these and would you recommend any?

I have taken courses at MidSouth and other more exclusive places.

I would highly recommend a carbine course.

I don't know any reputable instructors teaching SUT- courses though.

Any idea where I could train in something like SWAT style entry in a team? I've read a few books about it, but it really seems like something you need hands on with.

What would be the practical application for this?

CQB is very difficult and very dangerous. I never advocate anyone 'clearing rooms' for home defense.

Friends of mine that have small children in other rooms, I sit down with them and set up a home defense plan that works, with a minimum of room clearing, because amateur room clearing is a good way to get your gun taken from you, or killed.

Purely for my own personal enlightenment. And the tiny possibility of rounding up collaborators with Mexico when they invade Texas.

J/k about the 2nd part. Kind of.
2/17/13 9:20 PM
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ChipW
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Bravo45, what do you think of frank proctors sling. It's on his website, wayofthegun.com . It's adjustable like the vtac but simple, no metal parts and light weight. Phone Post
2/17/13 9:23 PM
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ChipW
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ChipW - Bravo45, what do you think of frank proctors sling. It's on his website, wayofthegun.com . It's adjustable like the vtac but simple, no metal parts and light weight. Phone Post
Here
http://www.wayofthegun.us/ Phone Post
2/17/13 9:24 PM
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bravo45
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Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - Bravo45, have you taken any carbine training courses? I'm thinking of taking a tactical carbine course and possibly a small unit tactics course. What's your opinion on the utility of these and would you recommend any?

I have taken courses at MidSouth and other more exclusive places.

I would highly recommend a carbine course.

I don't know any reputable instructors teaching SUT- courses though.

Any idea where I could train in something like SWAT style entry in a team? I've read a few books about it, but it really seems like something you need hands on with.

What would be the practical application for this?

CQB is very difficult and very dangerous. I never advocate anyone 'clearing rooms' for home defense.

Friends of mine that have small children in other rooms, I sit down with them and set up a home defense plan that works, with a minimum of room clearing, because amateur room clearing is a good way to get your gun taken from you, or killed.

Purely for my own personal enlightenment. And the tiny possibility of rounding up collaborators with Mexico when they invade Texas.

J/k about the 2nd part. Kind of.

I wouldn't teach to anyone unvetted. CQB tactics are very closely held and also very fluid.

My advice is to make friends with a reputable instructor.
2/17/13 9:28 PM
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bravo45
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ChipW - 
ChipW - Bravo45, what do you think of frank proctors sling. It's on his website, wayofthegun.com . It's adjustable like the vtac but simple, no metal parts and light weight. Phone Post
Here
http://www.wayofthegun.us/ Phone Post

Frank's sling appears to pass the common sense test.

Of course, with a background like that I will be biased, naturally.
2/17/13 9:35 PM
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MarsMan
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On app, late, but in. Phone Post
2/17/13 9:49 PM
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ashleigh11
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mars man, any chance of updating your thread?
2/17/13 9:52 PM
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theken206
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bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - Bravo45, have you taken any carbine training courses? I'm thinking of taking a tactical carbine course and possibly a small unit tactics course. What's your opinion on the utility of these and would you recommend any?

I have taken courses at MidSouth and other more exclusive places.

I would highly recommend a carbine course.

I don't know any reputable instructors teaching SUT- courses though.

Any idea where I could train in something like SWAT style entry in a team? I've read a few books about it, but it really seems like something you need hands on with.

What would be the practical application for this?

CQB is very difficult and very dangerous. I never advocate anyone 'clearing rooms' for home defense.

Friends of mine that have small children in other rooms, I sit down with them and set up a home defense plan that works, with a minimum of room clearing, because amateur room clearing is a good way to get your gun taken from you, or killed.

Purely for my own personal enlightenment. And the tiny possibility of rounding up collaborators with Mexico when they invade Texas.

J/k about the 2nd part. Kind of.

I wouldn't teach to anyone unvetted. CQB tactics are very closely held and also very fluid.

My advice is to make friends with a reputable instructor.

Yeah I would think with out a Service based or LEO back ground or the like your not really going to be able to find to find all that many good places to properly hands on train CQB or SUT etc.



I think I have gotten lucky being able to pick shit up from friends with a lot of hands on experience lol.


Any book recommendations in general?

I quite like Plasters "The Ultimate Sniper" Revised.

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