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OtherGround Forums >> Bravo45 Gunfighting Discussion Thread


3/22/13 5:59 PM
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sreiter
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Jedburgh1 -  Damn this thread always heats up when I go to bed Phone Post



And like most threads, it will go to shit when sreiter shows up.

Standby for massive shittalking about how Jackburtons Da Da is the bestest in the world.

i've been here for 51 pages. You;re the only shit talker here,


Lets here about how your self taught, hillbilly sniper friend and you will hit 3 inch targets at 2500m all day long
3/22/13 6:03 PM
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Jedburgh1 - I didn't realize you guys were so bereft of shoot houses. That seems almost criminal negligence from a funding standpoint, but I guess you make do where you can.

But +1 on rappelling being the single most useless "tactical" skill.

The other thing about shot houses I've been expose to: They were all sub-sonic round capable only. No rifles. That was kind of a drag, especially as of late we transitioned over from subguns to carbines.

LAPD SWAT TL (retired) friend of mine said he never used rappelling during a real event.

but if he ever gets a gig as adviser/stunt man on a movie, it'll come in handy..
3/22/13 6:07 PM
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Sounds to me like there are quite a few civilian firearms enthusiasts with solid expertise in shooting. Have you guys ever thought about getting together privately and doing a round-robin type instruction/presentation to each other? I have to believe you'd pick up some good stuff, and at the same time save money by not paying for a big name. Obviously you guys are interested in improving your game. This might be a good option.?.
3/22/13 6:25 PM
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sreiter
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speaking of tactics - i just came across a email Jacks dad sent me when i have a questions....LOL Jed, this was on "that thread"


Hey WCDU

I'm having a debated with a guy who claims he's SF (A-team/ 5th/green beret)

Here's the scenario:

You're part of a breach team. You're mag runs dry. If there's a threat (the room isn't cleared)
obviously, you go to your secondary.

But, if the room is clear, do you change out mags before making your way through the rest of house?

How about if your M4 has a malfunction, same scenario. If the room is clear, do you do your "SPORTS" to clear the M4, or proceed with secondary only?

Is there contingencies to change the order of the stack before entering the next room that would give you time to clear the M4 ?

What happens if your sidearm malfunctions, which do you clear first?

etc
thanks

SReiter

Steve,

There is no hard or definitive answer to your questions. Generaly speaking you want the best tool for the job at hand and the best tool is generaly a long gun. Also if you are part of a team, there are additional options. I would not transition to the handgun unless I was in the middle of a shootout and the threat was less than 25 yds. Other wise I will get my AR up and running. So, if I "ran dry" that means I was busy pressing the trigger, so something likely needs continued shooting. However, if I have cover and my partner is beside me also shooting, I am going to get my long gun back in operation. If not, well I have to finish the fight as best I can. I don't remember SPORTS in detail but I do remember that I didn't like it. Most stacks are short lived in that they quickly divide into 2 man teams. It is too difficult to to have many more in a single room. Keeping in mind that there are rooms and there are rooms. Some are small and some are huge. You have to plan accordingly.

If your primary is down and then your secondary goes down, well, then you have to evaluate the problem. One could simply be empty and the other in some form of a malfunction. The malfunction could be final or simply need clearing. Let us say for the purpose of argument that they are both empty. Fix the one in your hands. Then if the situation allows for it, reload the other one.

The rule of thumb is to get the best weapon back in service. Keep in mind it could be the pistol. If the quarters are so tight that the short gun is the better tool, stick with it until the situation changes. An example that comes to mind is once I had to transistion from a perfectly good AR to my pistol to clear the area outside a window. The AR would have advertised my position.

Many amatuers want hard and fast answers. They want to be told what to do. That is okay for rookies and frequently has to be appraoch with a doctrinaire attitude.

In real life tactics are so fluid as to have an infinite number of variables. In most cases the first thing that goes to shit is the plan. Think Kumite vice Kata.


3/22/13 6:34 PM
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Jedburgh1
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IP - Sounds to me like there are quite a few civilian firearms enthusiasts with solid expertise in shooting. Have you guys ever thought about getting together privately and doing a round-robin type instruction/presentation to each other? I have to believe you'd pick up some good stuff, and at the same time save money by not paying for a big name. Obviously you guys are interested in improving your game. This might be a good option.?.

OG Shooter's Improvement Conclave.

If we've got a little land to run and some steel targets, I'm in.
3/22/13 6:35 PM
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Lurken
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sreiter - 
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Jedburgh1 -  Damn this thread always heats up when I go to bed Phone Post



And like most threads, it will go to shit when sreiter shows up.

Standby for massive shittalking about how Jackburtons Da Da is the bestest in the world.

i've been here for 51 pages. You;re the only shit talker here,


Lets here about how your self taught, hillbilly sniper friend and you will hit 3 inch targets at 2500m all day long

LOL at hillbilly. he had the sandbox record early desert storm for taking out a haji mortar crew that was wearing out a Marine infantry platoon. 1000 plus yards shots at moving targets.

You little spandex wearing chubby fag.

You are a nobody. You have no military or l.e. experience. Your a fucking weirdass little wannabe punk that pays a shitload of money to be affiliated with known firearms instructors. Dont ruin the thread.

MODS please monitor sreiters posts. he tends to start shit and destroy good threads.

Im done!
3/22/13 6:35 PM
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Jedburgh1
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^^I vaguely remember that debate. Was that guy saying clear the rest of the house with the secondary?
3/22/13 6:37 PM
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sreiter - 
Lurken - 
Jedburgh1 -  Damn this thread always heats up when I go to bed Phone Post



And like most threads, it will go to shit when sreiter shows up.

Standby for massive shittalking about how Jackburtons Da Da is the bestest in the world.

i've been here for 51 pages. You;re the only shit talker here,


Lets here about how your self taught, hillbilly sniper friend and you will hit 3 inch targets at 2500m all day long

LOL at hillbilly. he had the sandbox record early desert storm for taking out a haji mortar crew that was wearing out a Marine infantry platoon. 1000 plus yards shots at moving targets.

You little spandex wearing chubby fag.

You are a nobody. You have no military or l.e. experience. Your a fucking weirdass little wannabe punk that pays a shitload of money to be affiliated with known firearms instructors. Dont ruin the thread.

MODS please monitor sreiters posts. he tends to start shit and destroy good threads.

Im done!

What's the beef with you two?
3/22/13 6:42 PM
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sreiter
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Lurken - 
sreiter - 
Lurken - 
Jedburgh1 -  Damn this thread always heats up when I go to bed Phone Post



And like most threads, it will go to shit when sreiter shows up.

Standby for massive shittalking about how Jackburtons Da Da is the bestest in the world.

i've been here for 51 pages. You;re the only shit talker here,


Lets here about how your self taught, hillbilly sniper friend and you will hit 3 inch targets at 2500m all day long

LOL at hillbilly. he had the sandbox record early desert storm for taking out a haji mortar crew that was wearing out a Marine infantry platoon. 1000 plus yards shots at moving targets.

You little spandex wearing chubby fag.

You are a nobody. You have no military or l.e. experience. Your a fucking weirdass little wannabe punk that pays a shitload of money to be affiliated with known firearms instructors. Dont ruin the thread.

MODS please monitor sreiters posts. he tends to start shit and destroy good threads.

Im done!

What's the beef with you two?

he's a weirdo stalker who literally destroys every thread. he's been called out to shoot for cash, to fight me IRL, and always pussies out. Classic troll.

Here - you can read his idiocy.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&forum=104&thread=1365932&page=1
3/22/13 6:43 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Back on track.  A pro-tip for Friday.  My good friend came by the house recently.  He was headed out the door for Afghanistan soon.  As such, the bravo on his team had mounted him a SpecterDR on his M4, for longer engagements.  He complained about the old "nose to the charging handle" method of reacquiring parallax every time, as you would with glass optics or red dot.  

 

So I shared this with him:  

 

 

For the purposes of this picture I have used a zip-tie, but I would recommend using only rubber bands, to save your face.  Get your good head position and cheek weld, and place a rubber band where your cheek and corner of your mouth hit the buttstock.  Good positioning every time, and no nose to the charging handle (which I don't like either, I had surgery for a deviated septum years ago, and it aggravates my nose to shoot like that...)  

3/22/13 6:50 PM
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Jedburgh1 - ^^I vaguely remember that debate. Was that guy saying clear the rest of the house with the secondary?

i dont remember it all...

i think??? it had something to do with him saying just keep on firing (spray and pray) dont even think about conserving ammo...

At some point I mentioned I saw Tim Kennedy on some TV show doing a house clearing where he ran dry for no reason, only taking out 3 targets (dummies) with several mags. Maybe deadliest warrior.

When he asked you, you said you'd converse in that you'd only fire as much as you needed or something to that effect...


Basically, he was arguing until you agreed with me (to whatever degree), then literally never posted another word on the subject.
3/22/13 6:51 PM
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Jed - Cycling the M4 via charging handle

Method you favor, please.

3/22/13 6:53 PM
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Jedburgh1 - 

Back on track.  A pro-tip for Friday.  My good friend came by the house recently.  He was headed out the door for Afghanistan soon.  As such, the bravo on his team had mounted him a SpecterDR on his M4, for longer engagements.  He complained about the old "nose to the charging handle" method of reacquiring parallax every time, as you would with glass optics or red dot.  

 

So I shared this with him:  

 

 

For the purposes of this picture I have used a zip-tie, but I would recommend using only rubber bands, to save your face.  Get your good head position and cheek weld, and place a rubber band where your cheek and corner of your mouth hit the buttstock.  Good positioning every time, and no nose to the charging handle (which I don't like either, I had surgery for a deviated septum years ago, and it aggravates my nose to shoot like that...)  


thats a GREAT tip

you posted it before , but i wasnt sure what you meant..for sure will get your cheek weld consistent
3/22/13 6:53 PM
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Jed - Preferred go-to mechanical breaching tool
3/22/13 6:55 PM
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Jedburgh1 - ^^I vaguely remember that debate. Was that guy saying clear the rest of the house with the secondary?

he may have..like dont worry if you run dry you can finish with secondary, or something like that ...he also said something like the rest of the team would have my back if i was out... and i argued you're putting their life in danger by not doing your job, AND not covering them.. things along those lines
3/22/13 6:56 PM
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Jedburgh1
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sreiter - 
Jedburgh1 - ^^I vaguely remember that debate. Was that guy saying clear the rest of the house with the secondary?

i dont remember it all...

i think??? it had something to do with him saying just keep on firing (spray and pray) dont even think about conserving ammo...

At some point I mentioned I saw Tim Kennedy on some TV show doing a house clearing where he ran dry for no reason, only taking out 3 targets (dummies) with several mags. Maybe deadliest warrior.

When he asked you, you said you'd converse in that you'd only fire as much as you needed or something to that effect...


Basically, he was arguing until you agreed with me (to whatever degree), then literally never posted another word on the subject.

Ah yeah.

He retired the last year or two out of 5th Group. Some of those old guys are still holding onto old techniques.

Gotta stay current.
3/22/13 6:57 PM
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Jedburgh1
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IP - Jed - Cycling the M4 via charging handle

Method you favor, please.


I'm confused. Reloading? Malfunction clearing?
3/22/13 6:59 PM
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IP - Jed - Cycling the M4 via charging handle

Method you favor, please.


BCM gunfighter - support hand only ... yeahm i know i'm not jed - lolol
3/22/13 6:59 PM
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Jedburgh1
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IP - Jed - Preferred go-to mechanical breaching tool

The ram, if someone else carries it.

Honestly though our interior SOP is shotguns and door charges.

We carry rams and halligans sometimes but rarely use 'em.

I ripped up the inside of a 160th Nightstalker helicopter with a halligan on my back one time. They were not happy about that.

Most useful mechanical tool? Bolt cutters.
3/22/13 7:01 PM
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Jedburgh1 - 
IP - Jed - Cycling the M4 via charging handle

Method you favor, please.


I'm confused. Reloading? Malfunction clearing?

Reloading in a hot area. What's the smoothest method.
3/22/13 7:02 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Slap the bolt release with an open hand.
3/22/13 7:05 PM
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Jedburgh1 - 
IP - Jed - Preferred go-to mechanical breaching tool

The ram, if someone else carries it.

Honestly though our interior SOP is shotguns and door charges.

We carry rams and halligans sometimes but rarely use 'em.

I ripped up the inside of a 160th Nightstalker helicopter with a halligan on my back one time. They were not happy about that.

Most useful mechanical tool? Bolt cutters.

We almost always used rams, and always took a set of bolt cutters (side gates). Have you used a sledge hammer? I've never seen one used in training or real life.

My issue with a ram is they expose the dude swinging it, as they can't always stand off-set. Effective, though.
3/22/13 7:08 PM
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Jedburgh1 - Slap the bolt release with an open hand.

Malfunction?
3/22/13 7:11 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Pulling the charging handle with your support hand as the second step in your immediate action process Phone Post
3/22/13 7:14 PM
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^^^The hammer, ever use one and was it as effective as a ram?

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