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3/22/13 7:15 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Never used one. Phone Post
3/22/13 7:17 PM
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sreiter
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IP - Sounds to me like there are quite a few civilian firearms enthusiasts with solid expertise in shooting. Have you guys ever thought about getting together privately and doing a round-robin type instruction/presentation to each other? I have to believe you'd pick up some good stuff, and at the same time save money by not paying for a big name. Obviously you guys are interested in improving your game. This might be a good option.?.

a few years back, jack, on several occasions offered to set up anyone who wanted, a free training day with his dad, plus beer and steaks... even would buy your ammo before it got too expensive.

no one ever took him up on it.

well, i kinda did, but i was living in the same town as Jack.. just because its the kinda guy i am, I paid for the lesson, which lead me to shooting at least 4 hours a week with him, sometimes 8, for around 9 months or so (and he offer the training day to me before he did the general OG..so)

WITHOUT question, Jacks the most generous, giving dude, you'll ever find in your life...

3/22/13 7:21 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Ha fuck I would do that now in a heartbeat, back then couldn't afford the airfare Phone Post
3/22/13 7:28 PM
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sreiter
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Jedburgh1 -  Ha fuck I would do that now in a heartbeat, back then couldn't afford the airfare Phone Post

obviously, i cant speak for Jack...but knowing the kind of person he is, i'm sure if you asked....

Dont know if you know, he's not in the same state anymore, so it would be a trip for him too.
3/22/13 7:33 PM
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Fast Pitch
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Great thread.
3/22/13 7:48 PM
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IP
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Damn, 1300 posts! This thread has done well.
3/22/13 8:03 PM
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tyronehernandez
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"OG Shooter's Improvement Conclave."

I know a BLM spot in the CA desert with our name on it. Just saying.

Seeing that Jack's Dad, who's identity is apparently unknown only to me, sounds old school, does he still shoot the weaver style as cooper taught or has he modernized.

Not to start the iso/weaver debate....
3/22/13 10:00 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Can you bring guns into CA? Phone Post
3/22/13 10:06 PM
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awilson82
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Yeah CA not exactly a firearm friendly destination lol. Phone Post
3/22/13 10:18 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Adub I'm gonna be back up in your area on the 31st Phone Post
3/22/13 10:19 PM
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sreiter
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tyronehernandez - "OG Shooter's Improvement Conclave."

I know a BLM spot in the CA desert with our name on it. Just saying.

Seeing that Jack's Dad, who's identity is apparently unknown only to me, sounds old school, does he still shoot the weaver style as cooper taught or has he modernized.

Not to start the iso/weaver debate....

he is constantly evaluating, and evolving. he'll take others classes to see if they're worth while, or watch magpuls dvd's etc.

he teaches iso or a modified version i think. athletic defensive position, like a boxer.. elbows slightly bent not locked out so elbow absorb recoil, not shoulders

i used to shoot modified weaver just because i shot better and he really tried to break me of the habit.

i shoot equally as well using either now..

i cant find it, but there was a great vid on one vs the other... and it really comes down to how each manages recoil...a proper weaver will do equally well, but, it take more of your energy to control it.

btw - 99% of the people out there who think they're doing iso, arent.

the key to why it works is Tony Chin..Toe knee chin all have to be in alignment with each other... that mean leaning fairly forward. When you do that, your body absorbs much more of the recoil and you get very little muzzle flip
3/22/13 10:21 PM
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sreiter
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Jedburgh1 -  Can you bring guns into CA? Phone Post

nothing good unless its a sanctioned tourney... that said, i live here so the travel is easy :)
3/22/13 10:29 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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sreiter - 
tyronehernandez - "OG Shooter's Improvement Conclave."

I know a BLM spot in the CA desert with our name on it. Just saying.

Seeing that Jack's Dad, who's identity is apparently unknown only to me, sounds old school, does he still shoot the weaver style as cooper taught or has he modernized.

Not to start the iso/weaver debate....

he is constantly evaluating, and evolving. he'll take others classes to see if they're worth while, or watch magpuls dvd's etc.

he teaches iso or a modified version i think. athletic defensive position, like a boxer.. elbows slightly bent not locked out so elbow absorb recoil, not shoulders

i used to shoot modified weaver just because i shot better and he really tried to break me of the habit.

i shoot equally as well using either now..

i cant find it, but there was a great vid on one vs the other... and it really comes down to how each manages recoil...a proper weaver will do equally well, but, it take more of your energy to control it.

btw - 99% of the people out there who think they're doing iso, arent.

the key to why it works is Tony Chin..Toe knee chin all have to be in alignment with each other... that mean leaning fairly forward. When you do that, your body absorbs much more of the recoil and you get very little muzzle flip

I think you're too black and white about this stuff. It's all more dynamic than that. Let's not forget someone might be moving or off balance or peeking around cover or whatever.
3/22/13 10:32 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Ron Avery describes the difference between Weaver and Iso pretty well here. He's a fucking incredible shooter btw. Even though he's a little older he's a threat to win even at the highest levels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GewbIC2P8Hw
3/22/13 10:52 PM
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tyronehernandez
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Well CA might not be the best option.....there is always the NV desert which just happens to be situated next to vegas - incase we needed to head into town for "supplies".

So Avery is teaching with Haley now...nice line up over there.



3/22/13 11:37 PM
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Jedburgh1
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severnsmustache is a gun guy. He needs to open a range and invite us all.
3/22/13 11:38 PM
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sreiter
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Rhymenoceros - Ron Avery describes the difference between Weaver and Iso pretty well here. He's a fucking incredible shooter btw. Even though he's a little older he's a threat to win even at the highest levels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GewbIC2P8Hw

yes- thats the vid i was talking about

re: above...yeah, typing, i had to make it black and white, or wouldve been type for days, and no one would know what i was saying anyway
3/22/13 11:43 PM
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Jedburgh1
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Wow that was a great video.

As I've always said, the one-two punch of a great instructor is being able to demonstrate, and also articulate.
3/22/13 11:58 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Jedburgh1 - Wow that was a great video.

As I've always said, the one-two punch of a great instructor is being able to demonstrate, and also articulate.

There's another video with Avery coaching Haley. Haley and Costa get blown up a lot for their pistol skills due to the magpul stuff, but he would be about a B class shooter. There are legit GM special forces guys like Frank Proctor, but the guys who seem to get the most press aren't on the same level when it comes to pistol shooting. I guess that's the way of the world.
3/23/13 12:05 AM
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Jedburgh1
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While this may sound like jealous haterade to some....

Frank serves (or did serve I don't know if he's out now..) in a National Guard SF group.

Which means he has time to be a GM-class pistol shooter. And I respect him for that.
3/23/13 12:06 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Jedburgh1 - While this may sound like jealous haterade to some....

Frank serves (or did serve I don't know if he's out now..) in a National Guard SF group.

Which means he has time to be a GM-class pistol shooter. And I respect him for that.

Oh snap!

Pat Macnamara is a GM as well I believe. And Vickers I think made it to Master before jumping ship to "found" IDPA.
3/23/13 12:08 AM
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Jedburgh1
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It's unfair to mention anyone coming out of that particular unit.

The entire mechanism exists so that they can hone their shooting every single day.
3/23/13 12:14 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Jedburgh1 - It's unfair to mention anyone coming out of that particular unit.

The entire mechanism exists so that they can hone their shooting every single day.

The AMU?

JK. Fuck those guys though. How you can join the Army, get paid to shoot full time while conducting some bullshit exercises from time to time, have unlimited ammo and unlimited access to gunsmiths, and then compete as an A or B class shooter at matches is beyond me. Some of those guys are the grossest sandbaggers in the sport.
3/23/13 12:23 AM
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Jedburgh1
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Ah my friend,

You've confused your terms. The AMU is the Army Marksmanship Unit, of which your assessment is spot on.

Those men are from a SMU or special missions unit, which is a horse of a vastly different color. And yet they still find time to be GM class shooters. Truly amazing shooters.
3/23/13 12:27 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Edited: 03/23/13 12:30 AM
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<blockquote>Jedburgh1 - Ah my friend, <br /><br />You've confused your terms. The AMU is the Army Marksmanship Unit, of which your assessment is spot on. <br /><br />Those men are from a SMU or special missions unit, which is a horse of a vastly different color. And yet they still find time to be GM class shooters. Truly amazing shooters.</blockquote>

I was kidding, hence the "JK."

I'm aware those guys are/were Delta. I can say that because as a civilian I pay for their ammo or something. And because I don't know shit.

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