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OtherGround Forums >> Bravo45 Gunfighting Discussion Thread


2/18/13 9:50 AM
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Smoldy
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Awesome! Ty for this thread Phone Post
2/18/13 9:50 AM
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bravo45
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Jack_Burton - I didn't read everything, but everything I did read was 100% correct. Peer reviewed - peer approved.

I'd add a couple little things to consider, they may have been discussed and missed them.

On your plate carrier - nothing can placed on the shoulder that obstructs the butt of your rifle from coming into the same point of contact every single time you mount the gun - if you dont mount correctly and consistently, you get a shitty cheek weld. No flexi cuffs. No tourniquets. no comm gear. I saw pictures of MARSOC the other day and the tourniquets on each shoulder and the guy in the picture could barely get a decent cheek weld.


The shooting and training industry is a wild wild place, where the key to surviving is getting contracts for training for large federal entities. My dad who was primarily a tactical shooting instructor, who just happened to do a lot of hunting, including as a professional hunter in Africa. He ended up getting many contracts with Division of Wildlife places, Bureau of Land Management, and others like that. Grizzly bears eating park rangers made some people realize if you cant shoot in those situations you are going to die. So they paid for training. He bounced between that and teaching at Gunsite for many years. So are there many ways to skin a cat.

The government is finally coming around to understanding a triangle concept related to security, like the speed - power - accuracy triangle. Security requires equal parts physical security - procedural security and technical security. You already know all of the physical security stuff, and much of procedural stuff. If you add technical / IT security - you have all three and you have an excellent chance of landing a cushy ass government job.

I look forward to shooting with you when you get up and running.


You're absolutely right regarding the plate carrier and I am very guilty of having bullshit cover up my firing shoulder; usually an MBITR antenna.

It was very interesting to watch the trend in assaulters go from these big ass heavy rigs with everything hung on them to slicked down carriers with just a few mags and a radio, guys were learning and adapting, and maybe just getting old.

Thanks for the thoughts, we are still a few years away before this is more than a pipe dream.
2/18/13 9:54 AM
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MarsMan
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Billy Yank -  Re: the single point sling.

I use one, and I work with dozens of people (very skilled shooters) that use them, and none of us have ever stuck our head and arm though the loop as shown in your example. Phone Post

In my limited experience, the single point sling's advantage is when you have to do a lot of week side transitioning (like clearing a right hand corner in an urban scenario.

I started with the two point, then used the single for a while, but I realized that:

1- If I'm on the move (or in tight quarters), I rather keep the rifle on the strong side, even if I have to expose myself a little when turning a corner.

2- I can transition to weak side when I'm behind cover just fine with the two point sling...it takes a little longer but, with practice, not THAT longer.

3- single point, for me, was just HORRIBLE when you had to draw a pistol, or carry something, or sling the rifle on your back to jump a wall...it just plain sucked, and like Bravo pointed out, was no fun when you got a rifle swing on the balls.

 

So now I'm back into the two point... it solves the problems above and has two other upsides.

- I can wrap it around my stock and keep it really tight to my body, when I'm just walking in a safe place, or carrying crap....I don't know if this makes any sense...maybe I should take a pic.

- I can adjust it so that the lowest tip of the stock sits at the sweet spot near my collarbone, tight enough so that it feels like that junction acts like a hinge when I lift the rifle into the ready position (not the "right" way to do it, just my personal preference).

(Sorry if my terminology sounds weird as I am not familiar with all the terms in English)

 

2/18/13 9:59 AM
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bravo45
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I used to be the same way, regarding switching hands to better use cover and the single point sling then one day I realized:

If I am so rushed for time behind cover that I don't have enough to take off my 2 point sling, then I probably have a lot bigger problems than shooting ambidextrously.
2/18/13 10:01 AM
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bravo45
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Stay tuned for today we will go over some sights and positional stuff; After I get back from the goddamn DMV.
2/18/13 10:03 AM
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Jack_Burton
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MBITR ant is probably OK since its flat enough. I died a little on the inside when I saw few images of Marsoc teams and they looked bad. It was nice to see you post images that are up to par. Army SF always had a higher level of professional than the USMC though. I have never completely understood why.

SF guys are really and truly professional soldiers.

Everyone should get what the SEALS get. Which is like an unlimited budget and free beer and pizza or something. That's what I heard anyway.

The guy who killed OBL took 4 mags. 3 on his PC and one up. He came back with exactly the same load minus 3 rounds. He gave the magazine with 27 rounds in it the CIA analyst who found him.

I use a Crye JPC with three mags. That's heavy enough in your 40's, but I am not working in high threat areas. Unless you count the line at Starbucks being really long or something.

2/18/13 10:03 AM
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MarsMan
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bravo45 - Stay tuned for today we will go over some sights and positional stuff; After I get back from the goddamn DMV.

LOL....have fun, man.

Thanks for another great thread!

2/18/13 10:07 AM
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bravo45
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^^We just don't photograph our shitbags.

Yes SEALs budget....good PR machine. Never forget Big Army hates us and wishes we would go away. Phone Post
2/18/13 10:09 AM
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JustMidge
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In and thank you Phone Post
2/18/13 10:15 AM
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Jerry Bohlander
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Looking forward to the optic discussion. A favorite subject of mine.
2/18/13 10:40 AM
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jahmon
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bravo45 - Stay tuned for today we will go over some sights and positional stuff; After I get back from the goddamn DMV.

Hope you don't have to use any of your acquired skills while at the DMV!

Voted up for good thread and taking the time to respond to questions.

Respect.
2/18/13 11:04 AM
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comeacrossclean
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sub
2/18/13 11:15 AM
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MountainMedic
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bravo45 - Stay tuned for today we will go over some sights and positional stuff; After I get back from the goddamn DMV.
Interested in your take on scout style set ups. Phone Post
2/18/13 11:19 AM
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Arglebargle
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bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - 
bravo45 - 
Keep if professional - Bravo45, have you taken any carbine training courses? I'm thinking of taking a tactical carbine course and possibly a small unit tactics course. What's your opinion on the utility of these and would you recommend any?

I have taken courses at MidSouth and other more exclusive places.

I would highly recommend a carbine course.

I don't know any reputable instructors teaching SUT- courses though.

Any idea where I could train in something like SWAT style entry in a team? I've read a few books about it, but it really seems like something you need hands on with.

What would be the practical application for this?

CQB is very difficult and very dangerous. I never advocate anyone 'clearing rooms' for home defense.

Friends of mine that have small children in other rooms, I sit down with them and set up a home defense plan that works, with a minimum of room clearing, because amateur room clearing is a good way to get your gun taken from you, or killed.

If I gave you a home defense scenario could you offer suggestions?

How much experience do you have with AKs?

Gotta get ready for work and just finished page 5. Will check back later.
2/18/13 11:25 AM
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bravo45
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Well the DMV was closed on a Federal holiday. Who knew? Bravo45 has never been accused of being a smart man.

So let's get this thing started:

Sights we can talk about all damn day, so I will try to stay on topic of the thread which is in terms of the fighting rifle or carbine, with a few tips thrown in here and there.
2/18/13 11:29 AM
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Sagiv Lapkin
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Edited: 02/18/13 11:31 AM
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NerdQuestionOfTheDay.com, Owner

For me the ACOG was the single most favorite piece of gear on deployment. Obviously it depends on your philosophy of use and personal preference, but I love that thing. Ideal for room-clearing? probably not. But general warfighting (at least for me), fuck yes.

2/18/13 11:31 AM
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bravo45
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If it were up to me, all of our infantry guys no matter the branch would have the option of a red-dot optic and an ACOG.
2/18/13 11:33 AM
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conwaytitty
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what's the title of the other thread with all the cool pics? very cool pics man i'm seriously jealous best 2 threads on here in awhile
2/18/13 11:35 AM
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bravo45
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So we will start with irons. I have back up irons on all of my rifles, because of what I built them for. Are they necessary down at your local 3-gun match if your sight goes down? Probably not.

But if you are slugging it out with some asshole, and your sight goes down, you'll be sad. And then probably in some pain shortly thereafter.

There are so many different types of irons that I can't begin to whittle them down for this thread but this is what I like:

A big square national match front sight post. I love the lines of a square post and can see them much easier.

Folding

Quick-detach if possible. Some instructors don't like QD because they want their irons, their last line of defense, to be tool-tightened and correct. I like QD for the modularity of the gun.
2/18/13 11:35 AM
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awilson82
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Bravo whats your preference on muzzle brakes, comps, flash hiders? What do you run? What works?

2/18/13 11:35 AM
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bravo45
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conwaytitty - what's the title of the other thread with all the cool pics? very cool pics man i'm seriously jealous best 2 threads on here in awhile

Bravo45's Tactical and Deployment Picture thread
2/18/13 11:38 AM
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bravo45
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I prefer a folding sight for this reason right here:  Iron sight obstruction.  

 

 

 

CQB is about vision, and I want as much open space in my optic as possible, thus folding irons.  You'll notice I don't practice what I preach sometimes, that's because I am not a rich man and can't update each one of my rifles just because my tastes change.  

2/18/13 11:39 AM
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TowerMonkey
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bravo45 -
Billy Yank -  Re: the single point sling.

I use one, and I work with dozens of people (very skilled shooters) that use them, and none of us have ever stuck our head and arm though the loop as shown in your example. Phone Post

I'm having trouble picturing how you route your sling.

Keep in mind that picture is not a true single point, I couldn't find mine, so I rigged one up for the picture.
Maybe he's talking about the single point lanyards that attach directly to your rig and have the quick release tabs?

I use a single point but I leave it a little loose so I can transfer to me back easily, that's just how I learned so it's what I use. Phone Post
2/18/13 11:39 AM
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conwaytitty
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thank you
2/18/13 11:49 AM
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bravo45
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Most of you already know what I'm going to recommend as my favorite Optic: the EOTech.  

First let's address the cons:  

Battery life.  The EOTech will eat batteries if you let it, however you need to be doing regular battery maintenance on your sights.  If you throw batteries in there and stick it in your safe, those batteries are eventually going to corrode in the compartment and your sight will be worthless; warranty will not cover this either.  

So for battery life I recommend rotating your batteries out ever so often, and cleaning out the battery compartment terminals with a pencil eraser, don't ruin your expensive sight through negligence.  

 

Zero shift: I have personally never seen this problem, but it does exist from what I hear and you need to be aware of it.  Treat your rifle roughly and confirm your zero a few times to see if it is a problem with your sight.  If so, send it back!  

 

And now the pros:

 

It's a holographic sight.  If I can see the reticle, I can shoot it.  I can put my nose on the buttstock of my rifle and as long as I can see, I can shoot just as well as if I were following all the fundamentals of basic rifle marksmanship.  

 

 

Guess where my bullets will go?  

 

This becomes very necessary when shooting under NODs; push the gun out as far as you need to in order to see the reticle, and then kill your enemy.  

 

 


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