UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Do you guys like Glory/K1 Rules or MuayThai more?

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

2/19/13 7:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43382
Gokudamus stole my name - I like MT rules with elbows and clinch but i dislike the thai scoring wich is really there for the gamblers anyway


Aside from weighing kicks more, what else about the Thai scoring is different from K1/Glory?
2/19/13 7:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43383
TTT for Dick and his interaction on the UG btw. We are pretty lucky.
2/20/13 8:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gokudamus stole my name
131 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21789
Wasa-B - 
Gokudamus stole my name - I like MT rules with elbows and clinch but i dislike the thai scoring wich is really there for the gamblers anyway


Aside from weighing kicks more, what else about the Thai scoring is different from K1/Glory?

Its not just weighing kicks more. A teep scores more than a legkick unless you visibly hurt him with the legkick, a kick to the arms score more than a punch unless you visibly hurt the opponent with the punch

The scoring for MT is very visual, in holland and other western countries they use clickers to score techniques, in Thailand a guy might land 100 punches but a strong knee from his opponent wins him the round

And keep in mind the knee doesnt have to fold him over, all it takes is that a technique visually shows its effect on the opponent to score, a teep knocks you back, a kick to the arm knocks you back, a punch therefore needs to make you stagger, a legkick needs to make you stagger otherwise no score

Muay Thai is awesome but the sport is highly influenced by thai gamblers. Thats why its so hard to understand for a lot of westerners and imo we need another direction
2/20/13 9:45 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Sauce
73 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/24/03
Posts: 4969
I'm a huge Thaiboxing fan!!! Phone Post
2/20/13 9:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Da Ghost
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/19/11
Posts: 864
Muay Thai for me! K1 is purely commercial.

Can't beat a good bit of clinch work and elbows imo Phone Post
2/20/13 9:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bartholomew P Skibbenheims III
46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/1/10
Posts: 397
john joe - people generally say "Muay Thai" with the reasoning that its "a more complete ruleset" , but in terms of a spectator sport, K1/Glory rules blow it away. People who have watched both, unless they are a hard MT aficionado, will opt for K1 nine times out of ten.

faster pace, harder hits, more KO's, better hands etc

knees from the clinch would be nice ; Glory has the 3second/active clinch rule which seems to be a step in this direction
Couldn't have said it better! Phone Post
2/20/13 5:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43393
Bartholomew P Skibbenheims III - 
john joe - people generally say "Muay Thai" with the reasoning that its "a more complete ruleset" , but in terms of a spectator sport, K1/Glory rules blow it away. People who have watched both, unless they are a hard MT aficionado, will opt for K1 nine times out of ten.

faster pace, harder hits, more KO's, better hands etc

knees from the clinch would be nice ; Glory has the 3second/active clinch rule which seems to be a step in this direction
Couldn't have said it better! Phone Post

Does K1 also not have a 3 second rule?
2/20/13 5:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43394
Gokudamus stole my name - 
Wasa-B - 
Gokudamus stole my name - I like MT rules with elbows and clinch but i dislike the thai scoring wich is really there for the gamblers anyway


Aside from weighing kicks more, what else about the Thai scoring is different from K1/Glory?

Its not just weighing kicks more. A teep scores more than a legkick unless you visibly hurt him with the legkick, a kick to the arms score more than a punch unless you visibly hurt the opponent with the punch

The scoring for MT is very visual, in holland and other western countries they use clickers to score techniques, in Thailand a guy might land 100 punches but a strong knee from his opponent wins him the round

And keep in mind the knee doesnt have to fold him over, all it takes is that a technique visually shows its effect on the opponent to score, a teep knocks you back, a kick to the arm knocks you back, a punch therefore needs to make you stagger, a legkick needs to make you stagger otherwise no score

Muay Thai is awesome but the sport is highly influenced by thai gamblers. Thats why its so hard to understand for a lot of westerners and imo we need another direction

Interesting. Can see then quite a curve for Thai/MT guys going to K1 and vice versa. Are there different rules within Thailand as well? Like, are elbows ever not allowed? Are they much of a factor?

Also, how long can the clinch go in MT? Until there is an obvious stalemate?

How are sweeps (ie. where you catch a leg and sweep the other) scored in either?

Thanks again, good to learn this stuff.
2/20/13 5:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43395
Wasa-B - 
daba -  MT. Didn't K-1 change their rules because of Buakaw? I always thought that was messed up. Phone Post

Believe this is another long perpetuated UG myth revolving specifically around K1 wanting to protect Masato from Buakaw. Does anyone have the exact time line of when K1 implemented there rule change on the clinch. As some of the others have pointed out, I believe the consideration of the clinch slowing down the action if there is no reset which is again I believe why the 3 second rule is there. This is similar to judo and rules around gripping where if you take it you have to attack within 3 seconds as you can stall like crazy otherwise or slow the action down.

Can anyone validate this?
2/20/13 5:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43396
Btw, did Duke mention they may also have Shoot Boxing rules? Thoughts?
2/20/13 6:01 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DJmixmasterMobbie
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/13/12
Posts: 194
subbb
2/20/13 6:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gokudamus stole my name
131 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21790
Wasa-B - 
Gokudamus stole my name - 
Wasa-B - 
Gokudamus stole my name - I like MT rules with elbows and clinch but i dislike the thai scoring wich is really there for the gamblers anyway


Aside from weighing kicks more, what else about the Thai scoring is different from K1/Glory?

Its not just weighing kicks more. A teep scores more than a legkick unless you visibly hurt him with the legkick, a kick to the arms score more than a punch unless you visibly hurt the opponent with the punch

The scoring for MT is very visual, in holland and other western countries they use clickers to score techniques, in Thailand a guy might land 100 punches but a strong knee from his opponent wins him the round

And keep in mind the knee doesnt have to fold him over, all it takes is that a technique visually shows its effect on the opponent to score, a teep knocks you back, a kick to the arm knocks you back, a punch therefore needs to make you stagger, a legkick needs to make you stagger otherwise no score

Muay Thai is awesome but the sport is highly influenced by thai gamblers. Thats why its so hard to understand for a lot of westerners and imo we need another direction

Interesting. Can see then quite a curve for Thai/MT guys going to K1 and vice versa. Are there different rules within Thailand as well? Like, are elbows ever not allowed? Are they much of a factor?

Also, how long can the clinch go in MT? Until there is an obvious stalemate?

How are sweeps (ie. where you catch a leg and sweep the other) scored in either?

Thanks again, good to learn this stuff.

No the rules are always the same in Thailand. Elbows are not scored at all unless they cut, drop or stagger the opponent but they are a serious factor. Usually the thais dont throw a lot of them against each other, because getting stitches usually means you risk of opening up the cut and not fighting again in 3 weeks. But if they are pissed at each other, then you might see a KO

Clinch is allowed for quite a while but IIRC there was a recent change a few years ago because the gamblers felt it was slowing down too much

Sweeps are scored highly because of course it means you visibly dropped your opponent, but no real throws, you can sweep the guy with your shin/top of your foot, but not reallly foot sweep him judo style. Sort of like how Overeem does it

2/20/13 6:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
AldoErasedMyAnswer
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/12
Posts: 392
Muay Thai
2/20/13 6:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
genshi
38 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/15/12
Posts: 869
Full Muay Thai Rules
2/20/13 7:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43402
ManWithTheIronFists - MT not the watered down BS that is K1 because they didn't want Buakaw to win every year.

Another one....
2/20/13 7:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 43403
"Sweeps are scored highly because of course it means you visibly dropped your opponent"

They are not scored as highly as dropping your opponent with a strike though are they?
2/20/13 7:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkuri
57 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/4/08
Posts: 12955

Muay Thai, but either is glorious

2/20/13 7:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Rusty Shackleford
45 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/4/12
Posts: 837
Wasa-B - Btw, did Duke mention they may also have Shoot Boxing rules? Thoughts?

He did, and thats something i would definately like to see more of on this side of the world.

3/13/13 9:45 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
490 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 2272
PhilBaroni - full Muay Thai rules

Phil,

You Got It!

Our new promotion Knockout Kings!

We are gonna follow the format of THAI FIGHTS promotion in Thailand, 3 round fast paced Full Rules Muay Thai Fights.

For the pros we are using MMA Weight Classes

Amateur bouts sanctioned the TBA.

Our 1st event May 11 along with Glory's ROAD TO GLORY.

Like us on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/KnockoutKingsMuayThai
3/13/13 10:23 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Megatherium
98 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/18/11
Posts: 5232
Great news, glad to here this!

Sounds very promising.
3/13/13 4:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
zealot66
57 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12797

I personally am excited to see Muay Thai fights but the format of K-1 is a proven quantity. I can think of so many K-1 max fighters that are so visually exciting and fast paced. Andy Sower, Buakaw, etc that pushed the action and very vew fights were stopped on cuts. I expect that depending on matchups there are a couple stopped on Cuts. In thailand, they don't stop for cuts but state side, a cut will stop an exciting fight. Rock em Sockem is what is needed.

6/5/13 8:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
490 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 2334
Highlights of the ROAD TO GLORY Tournament May 11 Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR4G5IjXA_s&feature=youtu.be

Our fans loved the GLORY Fights!
6/6/13 7:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44888
Gokudamus stole my name - 
Wasa-B - 
Gokudamus stole my name - 
Wasa-B - 
Gokudamus stole my name - I like MT rules with elbows and clinch but i dislike the thai scoring wich is really there for the gamblers anyway


Aside from weighing kicks more, what else about the Thai scoring is different from K1/Glory?

Its not just weighing kicks more. A teep scores more than a legkick unless you visibly hurt him with the legkick, a kick to the arms score more than a punch unless you visibly hurt the opponent with the punch

The scoring for MT is very visual, in holland and other western countries they use clickers to score techniques, in Thailand a guy might land 100 punches but a strong knee from his opponent wins him the round

And keep in mind the knee doesnt have to fold him over, all it takes is that a technique visually shows its effect on the opponent to score, a teep knocks you back, a kick to the arm knocks you back, a punch therefore needs to make you stagger, a legkick needs to make you stagger otherwise no score

Muay Thai is awesome but the sport is highly influenced by thai gamblers. Thats why its so hard to understand for a lot of westerners and imo we need another direction

Interesting. Can see then quite a curve for Thai/MT guys going to K1 and vice versa. Are there different rules within Thailand as well? Like, are elbows ever not allowed? Are they much of a factor?

Also, how long can the clinch go in MT? Until there is an obvious stalemate?

How are sweeps (ie. where you catch a leg and sweep the other) scored in either?

Thanks again, good to learn this stuff.

No the rules are always the same in Thailand. Elbows are not scored at all unless they cut, drop or stagger the opponent but they are a serious factor. Usually the thais dont throw a lot of them against each other, because getting stitches usually means you risk of opening up the cut and not fighting again in 3 weeks. But if they are pissed at each other, then you might see a KO

Clinch is allowed for quite a while but IIRC there was a recent change a few years ago because the gamblers felt it was slowing down too much

Sweeps are scored highly because of course it means you visibly dropped your opponent, but no real throws, you can sweep the guy with your shin/top of your foot, but not reallly foot sweep him judo style. Sort of like how Overeem does it


"a kick to the arms score more than a punch unless you visibly hurt the opponent with the punch"

So you could land a solid, flush punch to the face but unless the guy is visibly rocked, a kick to the arms scores more?

Dam, this is very interesting. I doubt the "K1 rules are watered down" crowd realize this. So Thai scoring is much more discretional or subjective i guess and does not seem to really take into account the real "damage" of a shot where you hurt someone but may have no visible cut or do the fish dance?

6/6/13 7:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44889
Also watched some clips of clinching and some of the best Thai guys at it. You def see Buakaw tossing guys around in K1 very easily esp with that spinning twist very much like a sasae tsuri komi ashi in judo. As a wrestler/judo guy, Im finding this part of Thai very interesting because its a bit like dirty boxing but not really but where clinching (stand up grappling) and striking come together. Ill try to find that Thai clinch training clip at home. I guess its a bit like judo though where the style of clinching is limited to the rules. In judo, because getting taken down to your stomach doesnt matter so much, that effects the attacks and the stance. In MT, because you cant shoot for the legs for example, the stance is obviously very up right so as to not give up neck/plum position, yeah?

I know Buakaw has competed in the SCup but cant recall specifically how he has done in the clinch vs more grappling orientated guys. Toby Imada is a grappler, right? I'll have to look up some more SCup.

Ive made some threads on this but still trying to think of major MMA bouts between a clinch heavy MT guy vs a grappler esp a Greco or Judo guy. There was Overeem/Lesnar. Shogun fought Randleman but not sure how much clinch there was. Anderson/Chael but most of that was Anderson on the defense more against Chael's td attempts. Anderson was creative in the clinch vs Bonnnar though even Bonnar isnt a strong grappler and Anderson, because he's an MMAer, has more freedom to do things in the clinch (2 on 1 which is more used in wrestling for example).

I think the potential Randy/Wand fight would have been interesting vs Greco vs Thai clinch.

Sakurai vs Trigg was a bit of an example I guess though Sakurai did not dominate with the Thai clinch until he rocked Trigg with a punch first though the punch happened in close quarters.
6/6/13 10:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
371 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44891
ttt

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.