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BJJGround Forum >> Starting your own BJJ Brand. Ask me anything.


7/3/13 8:12 PM
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On the Mat
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yusul - 
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yusul - do you know the quality of american cotton vs. pakistani cotton?

answered that long ago. look a few pages back

i can't find it.

i found you mentioning the quality of american rashguards and manufacturing, and also pakistani gis vs. chinese in terms of cotton.

i'll check again.

Cotton quality can be the same at either place. Pakistan usually has better cotton than China because they grow a lot of the world's cotton. So they dont import. China imports. they een buy from USA.

Pakistan had a flood a few years back that wiped out the bulk of their cotton fields.

This drove the worlds cotton supply way down and price went way up. Because of that quality of cotton you could get for gis was second rate. thats why every brand of gis had pants ripping.

Since then cotton supply has come back but cost has not dropped. So it is still had to get high quality cotton for gis.
7/3/13 9:20 PM
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spider guard
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jleung - 
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kying418 - OTM- do you have an estimate as to the number of BJJ practioners in the USA and the world?

How the heck would i know that? Sorry no clue. I can tell you lot about making gis but this one i cant touch.

LOL, at least you're honest.

For the guys trying to get costs down. What kind of advice would you have about buying your own fabric and sending it to the factory?

You ever run into any issues with meeting minimum quantities?I know some of these fabric factories only produce in massive 1/2 ton quantities.

How about dimensions of the fabric? I know the gi tops need to be at least 60" wide so that the top won't require a back seam.

How many meters of fabric does it take make a gi?

Well I didnt make this tread to lie to people ;)

For guys trying to get the costs down thats simple buy more gis and negotiate. Also here is a tip that has saved me tens of thousands of dollars. Get a GREAT customs broker.

No I dont run in to meeting minimum quantities, we meet those easily. If you are trying to get your own fabric done you need to go directly to the mill. And you need to go back and check your production too. You could get F'd. Ya cant just do this stuff over the internet.

Check this out. Took me 2.5 years to get bamboo fabric for gis. Mill told me it would take 3 months. After 6 I got a sample. Sucked. Another 4 got another sucked. Finally jumpped on a plane for China. Went to mill and factory. Got a good sample. Long story short. To save about .10 a year they cheated me on thread count. Had 1500 pairs of bamboo pants rip. Lost almost a $100K refunding and replacing pants. I got lazy didnt want to fly back to check production. Had an agent thought that was good enough. wasnt.

Moral of the story. If you want to do something new or try to play with the big boys you got to be there yourself making sure shit is done right. or else you'll get F'd mill saved maybe $300. Cost me a ton.

Width of fabric depends on size of gis you want to make. Remember you have to weave 62-64" to get 60" of usable fabric. 60" should get you up to A4 even A5 depending on your cut.

It takes 2 meters of fabric to make a top and 1.25-1.65 for pants.

So even with an agent, it still went to crap? How many times did you fly back to get the pants issued corrected and how much time did you spend in China per issue? Do you think the agent and the plant were in connivance to screw you?
7/4/13 9:51 AM
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On the Mat
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spider guard - 
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jleung - 
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kying418 - OTM- do you have an estimate as to the number of BJJ practioners in the USA and the world?

How the heck would i know that? Sorry no clue. I can tell you lot about making gis but this one i cant touch.

LOL, at least you're honest.

For the guys trying to get costs down. What kind of advice would you have about buying your own fabric and sending it to the factory?

You ever run into any issues with meeting minimum quantities?I know some of these fabric factories only produce in massive 1/2 ton quantities.

How about dimensions of the fabric? I know the gi tops need to be at least 60" wide so that the top won't require a back seam.

How many meters of fabric does it take make a gi?

Well I didnt make this tread to lie to people ;)

For guys trying to get the costs down thats simple buy more gis and negotiate. Also here is a tip that has saved me tens of thousands of dollars. Get a GREAT customs broker.

No I dont run in to meeting minimum quantities, we meet those easily. If you are trying to get your own fabric done you need to go directly to the mill. And you need to go back and check your production too. You could get F'd. Ya cant just do this stuff over the internet.

Check this out. Took me 2.5 years to get bamboo fabric for gis. Mill told me it would take 3 months. After 6 I got a sample. Sucked. Another 4 got another sucked. Finally jumpped on a plane for China. Went to mill and factory. Got a good sample. Long story short. To save about .10 a year they cheated me on thread count. Had 1500 pairs of bamboo pants rip. Lost almost a $100K refunding and replacing pants. I got lazy didnt want to fly back to check production. Had an agent thought that was good enough. wasnt.

Moral of the story. If you want to do something new or try to play with the big boys you got to be there yourself making sure shit is done right. or else you'll get F'd mill saved maybe $300. Cost me a ton.

Width of fabric depends on size of gis you want to make. Remember you have to weave 62-64" to get 60" of usable fabric. 60" should get you up to A4 even A5 depending on your cut.

It takes 2 meters of fabric to make a top and 1.25-1.65 for pants.

So even with an agent, it still went to crap? How many times did you fly back to get the pants issued corrected and how much time did you spend in China per issue? Do you think the agent and the plant were in connivance to screw you?

Yes even with the Agent I got f'd. The agent got lazy and didnt travel to the factory as he was supposed to.

I didnt fly back to get the pants fixed. I made agent do it or lose his client and commissions.

It took me 2 years and 3 trips to china to get the world first bamboo gis made.

No I dont think the agent and plant were in cahoots. It was the fabric mill that was working with the gi factory directly the screwed me. They are the old ones that saved any money. Agent and factory both lost money. But no one lost more money that i did.

The fabric mill wove the fabric with lighter and less threads than we asked for. Its like a thread count on sheets. You pay for 1000 thread count and you get 700. So they saved like a dime a foot or some crap like that. then all your pants rip and you dont sleep for months.

Then people come on here and bash you and tell you how much you suck. so you can come on your favorite forum for a while w o feeling like shit. lol
7/4/13 4:45 PM
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mooshin
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In for knowledge Phone Post 3.0
7/4/13 6:30 PM
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LEMon
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Thanks OTM, I've had similar experience. Everyone wants to make their own stuff but Unless u have your own factory it's hard. My friend went to china himself and got mats, ended up wrong thickness and density. We sold them and then we got from a diff factory, the one that makes zebra apparently lol. 90 were great, 10 were soft, ended up with gaps everywhere. Had to sell all 100.

Gis came wrong patch colours and same stitching on embroidery as the gi so it was invisible lol. Boom. Useless batch. Phone Post 3.0
7/5/13 7:52 PM
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On the Mat
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LEMon - Thanks OTM, I've had similar experience. Everyone wants to make their own stuff but Unless u have your own factory it's hard. My friend went to china himself and got mats, ended up wrong thickness and density. We sold them and then we got from a diff factory, the one that makes zebra apparently lol. 90 were great, 10 were soft, ended up with gaps everywhere. Had to sell all 100.

Gis came wrong patch colours and same stitching on embroidery as the gi so it was invisible lol. Boom. Useless batch. Phone Post 3.0

Manufacturing is not easy. There are lots and lots of storied of people getting ripped off (mostly from fake Pakistani emails from "factories") but also from people just not getting quality stuff.

I have been in the BJJ gear manufacturing since the 90s. I had help from some great people in Brazil and here. The KF & Kurgans people in Rio spent hours and hours with me. And, John Ounao was a big help. As was Howard from HCK.

You kinda need a mentor to do this right. Thats why Im trying to help you guys here. I cringe when i hear about some of the stuff that happens to people.
7/9/13 7:56 PM
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GrapplersSoul1208
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Edited: 07/09/13 9:17 PM
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7/9/13 11:09 PM
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jleung
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Just to keep this thread going. You don't always get a pioneer of the sport answering questions!

1) Was wondering what percentage of gis do you sell out of you brick n mortar stores compared to online?

2) Besides hemp and bamboo, any other alternative fabrics that you've looked into for manufacturing gis? I've seen a merino wool / polyester blend gi! How about linen? Organic cotton?

3) MMA shorts and rashguards. I've seen that a lot of brands are getting them sourced in the good ol' US of A now. How's the price differential? Is there any reason to go to China for that kinda stuff anymore? I hate dealing with customs! So much paperwork!

7/10/13 11:06 PM
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LankyFG
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jleung - 
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kying418 - OTM- do you have an estimate as to the number of BJJ practioners in the USA and the world?

How the heck would i know that? Sorry no clue. I can tell you lot about making gis but this one i cant touch.

LOL, at least you're honest.

For the guys trying to get costs down. What kind of advice would you have about buying your own fabric and sending it to the factory?

You ever run into any issues with meeting minimum quantities?I know some of these fabric factories only produce in massive 1/2 ton quantities.

How about dimensions of the fabric? I know the gi tops need to be at least 60" wide so that the top won't require a back seam.

How many meters of fabric does it take make a gi?

Well I didnt make this tread to lie to people ;)

For guys trying to get the costs down thats simple buy more gis and negotiate. Also here is a tip that has saved me tens of thousands of dollars. Get a GREAT customs broker.

No I dont run in to meeting minimum quantities, we meet those easily. If you are trying to get your own fabric done you need to go directly to the mill. And you need to go back and check your production too. You could get F'd. Ya cant just do this stuff over the internet.

Check this out. Took me 2.5 years to get bamboo fabric for gis. Mill told me it would take 3 months. After 6 I got a sample. Sucked. Another 4 got another sucked. Finally jumpped on a plane for China. Went to mill and factory. Got a good sample. Long story short. To save about .10 a year they cheated me on thread count. Had 1500 pairs of bamboo pants rip. Lost almost a $100K refunding and replacing pants. I got lazy didnt want to fly back to check production. Had an agent thought that was good enough. wasnt.

Moral of the story. If you want to do something new or try to play with the big boys you got to be there yourself making sure shit is done right. or else you'll get F'd mill saved maybe $300. Cost me a ton.

Width of fabric depends on size of gis you want to make. Remember you have to weave 62-64" to get 60" of usable fabric. 60" should get you up to A4 even A5 depending on your cut.

It takes 2 meters of fabric to make a top and 1.25-1.65 for pants.

Any tips for selecting a good customs broker? What part of the process do you bring one in? Before you place a big order or after it's on it's way?
8/2/13 11:43 AM
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On the Mat
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jleung - Just to keep this thread going. You don't always get a pioneer of the sport answering questions!

1) Was wondering what percentage of gis do you sell out of you brick n mortar stores compared to online?

2) Besides hemp and bamboo, any other alternative fabrics that you've looked into for manufacturing gis? I've seen a merino wool / polyester blend gi! How about linen? Organic cotton?

3) MMA shorts and rashguards. I've seen that a lot of brands are getting them sourced in the good ol' US of A now. How's the price differential? Is there any reason to go to China for that kinda stuff anymore? I hate dealing with customs! So much paperwork!


Sorry this thread dropped off main page so i figured it was dead.

1) it is about the same if you add all the shops up. Maybe a little more at shops. People like to try gis on.

2) never thought about wool? wouldnt that be hot as heck? organic cotton would be so much money with no new benefits of the fabric.

3) We do both. USA for short runs and overseas for large runs. Overseas is cheaper but you have to keep in mind you will pay 33% duties/taxes on synthetic wovens. So sometimes overseas seems really cheap. Till you have to pay shipping and taxes. That can double the cost of your FOB pricing.
8/2/13 12:07 PM
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On the Mat
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LankyFG - 
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jleung - 
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kying418 - OTM- do you have an estimate as to the number of BJJ practioners in the USA and the world?

How the heck would i know that? Sorry no clue. I can tell you lot about making gis but this one i cant touch.

LOL, at least you're honest.

For the guys trying to get costs down. What kind of advice would you have about buying your own fabric and sending it to the factory?

You ever run into any issues with meeting minimum quantities?I know some of these fabric factories only produce in massive 1/2 ton quantities.

How about dimensions of the fabric? I know the gi tops need to be at least 60" wide so that the top won't require a back seam.

How many meters of fabric does it take make a gi?

Well I didnt make this tread to lie to people ;)

For guys trying to get the costs down thats simple buy more gis and negotiate. Also here is a tip that has saved me tens of thousands of dollars. Get a GREAT customs broker.

No I dont run in to meeting minimum quantities, we meet those easily. If you are trying to get your own fabric done you need to go directly to the mill. And you need to go back and check your production too. You could get F'd. Ya cant just do this stuff over the internet.

Check this out. Took me 2.5 years to get bamboo fabric for gis. Mill told me it would take 3 months. After 6 I got a sample. Sucked. Another 4 got another sucked. Finally jumpped on a plane for China. Went to mill and factory. Got a good sample. Long story short. To save about .10 a year they cheated me on thread count. Had 1500 pairs of bamboo pants rip. Lost almost a $100K refunding and replacing pants. I got lazy didnt want to fly back to check production. Had an agent thought that was good enough. wasnt.

Moral of the story. If you want to do something new or try to play with the big boys you got to be there yourself making sure shit is done right. or else you'll get F'd mill saved maybe $300. Cost me a ton.

Width of fabric depends on size of gis you want to make. Remember you have to weave 62-64" to get 60" of usable fabric. 60" should get you up to A4 even A5 depending on your cut.

It takes 2 meters of fabric to make a top and 1.25-1.65 for pants.

Any tips for selecting a good customs broker? What part of the process do you bring one in? Before you place a big order or after it's on it's way?

As soon as possible. Because you want your customs broker to inform the factory how to fill out the bill of lading.

Depending on what you are importing there are different Tariff Classifications. Depending on what you bring in there are different Tariff Classification you might put. They have different import costs and they also can clear customs faster.

If you do start a lot of importing then you will soon find out getting your shit out of customs is a bitch and the faster you can do it the better.

Read this

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/trade/iius.ctt/iius.pdf

Get a customs broker that is close to where port where your shipment is going be delivered. yes, a broker can do this all remotely but having a guy that goes to the port a lot means he knows people face to face. so he has friends there. this can be a life saver.

most of all dont get a lazy broker. they will just fill out paper work and not work to get your costs down! taxes are a bitch they eat up profits. ask the broker to check other ways or classifications you can import the products as to save money.


Do not fake what you paid for your goods. Factories will tell you they will lower the invoice costs to save you money. This can never hurt them. But it can FUCK YOU! its illegal. If you start sending a lot of money to china or worse pakistan then you will get an audit. if what you are importing doesnt match in value to how much money you are sending to Pakistan this is a huge red flag that is easy as heck to trace. trust me what ever you think you are saving you will wish you hadnt broke the law when they catch you.
8/2/13 2:11 PM
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LankyFG
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I can't say how much I appreciate you spreading your knowledge. I'm one guy with an idea and finally grew a set to take the plunge.

I'm testing sample right now, but I'll be importing gis from Pakistan in the near future. Every day there's something new that pops up and I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I send any sizable sum of money anywhere.

I'm an engineer by trade and I live in details and numbers. I need a design and a cost laid out before I do anything.

The customs information is probably the hardest to figure out so far, mainly because everything you read online seems like it's there to scare the shit of you and how it's going to cost way more than you plan for, take way longer than you expect, and no matter what you're gonna get screwed.

I haven't been able to find exactly how the taxes and fees are figured out or how to classify things the right way. Typically, what are the costs for importing gis? Percentage wise?

What about DDU and DDP? Just saw this listed on some paperwork sent from the manufacturer. They say they do both.
8/2/13 2:38 PM
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On the Mat
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"I'm testing sample right now, but I'll be importing gis from Pakistan in the near future. Every day there's something new that pops up and I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I send any sizable sum of money anywhere. "

That never stops get used to it. Be in the game since 1996 shit always happens. Even a great engineer cant not plan for murphys law :)

"The customs information is probably the hardest to figure out so far, mainly because everything you read online seems like it's there to scare the shit of you and how it's going to cost way more than you plan for, take way longer than you expect, and no matter what you're gonna get screwed."

I agree customs is very hard. Good broker will help a lot. ask your factory for a sample bill of lading. If they will not get you one most likely they are not really a factory.

It always takes longer than you are told or expect. And, someone along the line always trys to screw you it seems.

"I haven't been able to find exactly how the taxes and fees are figured out or how to classify things the right way. Typically, what are the costs for importing gis? Percentage wise?"

Cotton is a protected comity in our country. They duties are always changing. Get a good broker LOL sorry to keep repeating myself but its the truth.

"What about DDU and DDP? Just saw this listed on some paperwork sent from the manufacturer. They say they do both."

Delivered Duty Unpaid & Delivered Duty Paid I dont think you can do both or you would be paying duties twice?

I prefer to have my broker deal with duties. He is going to know more that some guy in pakistan usually. But get a quote for each and see whats up.

But becaureful. in the past i have pre paid shipping and duties only to charged again when good got to port. I did get money back from factory but not with out a fight. PORRA!
8/2/13 2:57 PM
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LankyFG
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Thanks for the encouragement. I feel like I need to find a good customs broker? Is that what you're saying? ha!

Sorry, about the DDU/DDP questions. I meant to ask is better to go one way or the other? I figured DDP may seem easier at first to let them handle everything, but I also thought a customs broker would be able to get things done more smoothly, even with their added charges.

I'll get a copy of a bill of lading and start narrowing down a broker. I live just outside of Baltimore, so luckily I have a port right up the street.

Thanks again!
8/2/13 4:35 PM
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The Principal
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In. Phone Post 3.0
8/4/13 5:52 PM
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On the Mat
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LankyFG - Thanks for the encouragement. I feel like I need to find a good customs broker? Is that what you're saying? ha!

Sorry, about the DDU/DDP questions. I meant to ask is better to go one way or the other? I figured DDP may seem easier at first to let them handle everything, but I also thought a customs broker would be able to get things done more smoothly, even with their added charges.

I'll get a copy of a bill of lading and start narrowing down a broker. I live just outside of Baltimore, so luckily I have a port right up the street.

Thanks again!

This shit isnt easy. I have found the more your do yourself and dont let the people overseas do the smoother it will go. You know the old saying right??

If you want it done right do it yourself. well problem is if you dont know WTF you are doing this doesnt apply. LOL

So call some customs brokers. Try to get sample import docs from your factory. Then go see the customs brokers and tell them. Look i hear there are different ways these products can be brought in. Can you help me figure out what is best so i can let the factory know how to fill out the paper work properly. Tell the broker its the first time they make these specific products or some shit.

Maybe Ill do a work shop or class on how to do this shit.
8/5/13 9:25 AM
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LankyFG
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If you did a workshop or a seminar, I'd be on the first plane to Cali or where ever you hold it!

8/5/13 10:54 AM
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On the Mat
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LankyFG - If you did a workshop or a seminar, I'd be on the first plane to Cali or where ever you hold it!


If enough people want to do it Ill do it. Let me know if you are interested.
8/5/13 2:38 PM
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sharkroll
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I'd be interested.
8/7/13 12:44 PM
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Ray Elbe
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LankyFG - If you did a workshop or a seminar, I'd be on the first plane to Cali or where ever you hold it!


If enough people want to do it Ill do it. Let me know if you are interested.
I'm interested.

Magicalray@aol.com for some sort of mailing list ;) Phone Post 3.0
8/7/13 2:24 PM
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The Principal
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Scotty, What is your view of companies making micro-batches, of say 50-100 limited edition gis? Is it cost effective to do so? About 200-400 gis used to be the limited release number, but now it seems like it is going down. Thanks for your insight. Phone Post 3.0
8/7/13 5:54 PM
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Ray Elbe - 
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LankyFG - If you did a workshop or a seminar, I'd be on the first plane to Cali or where ever you hold it!


If enough people want to do it Ill do it. Let me know if you are interested.
I'm interested.

Magicalray@aol.com for some sort of mailing list ;) Phone Post 3.0

Ray,

when i get back from GQ in Amsterdam ill probably build some kind of opt in page and see what kind of interest people have in doing a workshop or something.

Of course Im sure Ill be accused of using LI marketing for doing so. Maybe do a facebook group.

thanks
8/7/13 5:59 PM
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The Principal - Scotty, What is your view of companies making micro-batches, of say 50-100 limited edition gis? Is it cost effective to do so? About 200-400 gis used to be the limited release number, but now it seems like it is going down. Thanks for your insight. Phone Post 3.0

Limiters gonna limit.

you know when 300 was a small run someone had to do 200, then some one had to do 100, then 50. soon it will be one of a kind gis. OH SNAP! Cats out the bag. who's gonna run with that one??
8/10/13 8:22 AM
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Ray Elbe
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Lets meet up in Amsterdam ;) Phone Post 3.0
8/10/13 6:55 PM
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Chester Davis
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Does otm offer any kind of whole sale type of deals for supplying gis to an academy ? if so who would I need to contact about that ?

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