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UnderGround Forums >> Machida Strikes Landed on Hendo


2/25/13 9:16 PM
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D241
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Edited: 02/25/13 9:26 PM
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Lol at the people calling me butthurt.

 

Here's how I see how this has played out so far.

 

Henderson/Lyoto fought and had a very dull, lackluster fight, in which a fighter was awarded to be "the winner".

 

My take is that neither fighter did enough to walk away and be called "the winner", as if they just proved they were the clear cut better fighter.

I come on here, and state that I feel the fight should be a draw, and that Lyoto didn't do enough to pull away as being the better fighter.

I get called butthurt.

I explain myself.

Then you guys try to say, "Lyoto landed more strikes than Dan did"

I go back to my original argument which is what Lyoto did wasn't enough to be declared a winner.

I get called butthurt again.

 

 

The problem is, is we disagree on how a fight should determine a winner.

 

 

2/25/13 9:22 PM
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D241
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Glovegate - 

The strikes clearly weren't the same.  Spin it however you want, he did the bare minimum which is sad because he's capable of so much more.

I don't know why you're defending this performance.  I guess you think it makes you look more sophisticated?  You don't need to if that's the case.  You have a fairly keen eye, most people know that already.

If anything, defending this game plan makes you look worse, not better.

Voted up Glovegate.

 

Lyoto has had some good fights and moments prior, but this was one of his worst performances to date.

 

People defending his performance on here so adamantly is disturbing. 

2/25/13 9:28 PM
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D241
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Lets say whoever is reading this sentence is 6'2, 230lbs. Lets say I'm 5'4 120lbs(I'm not)

Lets say we square up, and you walk me down, and I continue getting out of your range. Lets say I jump in and hit you with a shot that lands, but not flush, and doesn't fase you. 30 seconds into it boom, the cops come.

 

You guys would say, "well, you landed a strike and the other guy didn't, so you'd be the winner in that scenario".

 

I would say no, I was scared, I threw a punch with the intention to get you away from me, not to knock you out.

Your argument would be that a punch was thrown, a punch landed, that means I am the victor.

 

 

Now raise my hand and give me a title shot?

 

 

Does the fact that instead of 30 seconds went by in this hypothetical scenario change if it's 15 minutes with the same percentage of action?

2/25/13 9:37 PM
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TheFlyingGentlemen
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Phone Post
2/25/13 9:38 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Glovegate - 

The strikes clearly weren't the same.  Spin it however you want, he did the bare minimum which is sad because he's capable of so much more.

I don't know why you're defending this performance.  I guess you think it makes you look more sophisticated?  You don't need to if that's the case.  You have a fairly keen eye, most people know that already.

If anything, defending this game plan makes you look worse, not better.


Yes, I already said they were not the same. They were not as flush, and Dan's chin and ability to absorb damage is what made them different. They were throw with the same intentions though. That much is obvious.

 

He fought the same way he always fights. Calculated precision striking and taking as little damamge as possible. He just couldn't put iron chin Hendo away, and neither could Hendo's last 37 opponents (via striking).

 

If you want to keep your "I want exciting fights" blinders on, and as Rashad said you cannot appreciate a technical style match up, that's fine. Stop pretending he fought any different then he always does.

2/25/13 9:43 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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D241 - 

Lol at the people calling me butthurt.

 

Here's how I see how this has played out so far.

 

Henderson/Lyoto fought and had a very dull, lackluster fight, in which a fighter was awarded to be "the winner".

 

My take is that neither fighter did enough to walk away and be called "the winner", as if they just proved they were the clear cut better fighter.

I come on here, and state that I feel the fight should be a draw, and that Lyoto didn't do enough to pull away as being the better fighter.

I get called butthurt.

I explain myself.

Then you guys try to say, "Lyoto landed more strikes than Dan did"

I go back to my original argument which is what Lyoto did wasn't enough to be declared a winner.

I get called butthurt again.

 

 

The problem is, is we disagree on how a fight should determine a winner.

 

 


Yeah, that's all you did. That's exactly how it went.

 

You never compared Machida to Kalib Starnes. You never cried that all he did was run away. You never ignored the facts of how he clearly outstruck Henderson.

 

People call you butthurt because you have said very ignorant and childish things in this whole thread. Even posters who like you and say you normally are a quality poster have pointed out how stupid your posts have been. Wake up man. Machida fought the same way he always does, threw the same strikes he always does, but just couldn't put away a guy who is impossible to put away. Keep crying though, it is helping your 'Im not butthurt' crusade.

 

You have yet to logically defend how Lyoto did NOT win rounds 1+2, or even 3 for that matter. The ONLY person of importance agreeing that Machida didn't win is........

 

 

 

2/25/13 10:00 PM
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D241
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Watching the fight now. Watched rounds 1 and 2 thus far.

 

Rd 1 wasn't as bad as I remembered for Lyoto. It was a feeling out process and Lyoto didn't back away that much. Rd 1 hard to score 2nd time around. First time I gave it to Dan, 2nd time I don't feel comfortable giving it to either guy.

Rd 2-hard to score as well. Lyoto was very standoffish. The strikes he threw landed, but hard to say it was enough. Dan was coming forward and connected a couple times, can't really say that was enough to win him the round either.

 

 

Before I watch round 3, I'll say this. When watching the fight the first time, I saw a pattern and openings that I forgot to mention.

 

The few times Lyoto initiated the striking(mostly in rd 1), even if Machida didn't land flush, as soon as he(Lyoto) was done with the strikes, Dan would charge forward. EVERYTIME. This is where Machida could've capitolized much more. 

It's fair to say we all agree Lyoto is a counter striker yes?

That being said, his best bet is to draw Dan in. With Lyoto's speed and range, he seemed to have been able to do that. It's just there were multiple times where Lyoto steps in with a jab, or a jab kick and he's on his heels, and Dan comes forwrard. Lyoto could've circled and jabbed and with his speed plus the momentum of Dan coming forward, Lyoto could've hurt and dropped Dan many times.

Instead of countering, Lyoto would get out of the way. It didn't make Dan look good, but on the same token it didn't make Lyoto that great when that's what he was doing more than countering or initiating the stand up.

Lyoto could've done this alot more often, and this would've at least gotten Dan tired in the latter part of the fight. 

2/25/13 10:17 PM
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D241
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rd 3, Dan coming forward, Lyoto going backwards. BAM, left kick to the body, I think that was the one in one of Damn Severn's gifs. That's hard to judge b/c it looked and sounded clean, but Dan walked through it. The liver is on the right side and I don't think that kick hit the liver, it would've at the very least slowed down Dan. Regardless, that's a score.

 

Dan gets takedown in a tie up scramble, not a hard takedown or slam, basically just lands in top position. Dan is in top position kneeing Lyoto's leg, Lyoto is 100% on the defensive, no urgancy to escape or mount any type of sweep or submission. Lyoto has closed guard, and both hands clinched behind Dan's back. Hoping to stall I assume.

Finally after 2 minutes of Dan being on the top doing very little damage as Lyoto was holding him close, the referee advises Lyoto "you've got to work". Lyoto obliges quickly, and goes for a kimura. Dan quickly defends and in that moment Lyoto escapes to his feet.

 

Ok, I had to rewind this part here so I can pinpoint the stinker part of this fight.

1:50 left in the final round when Lyoto escapes

Dan doesn't come forward, instead just slowly prods to his left.

1:35 Lyoto throws a leg lick that lands.

1:30 Lyoto throws a lazy leg kick that Dan checks. Looks like it hurt Lyoto

between 1:30 mark and 38seconds left in the final round, Lyoto does a whole lot of nothing. Lots of feints, no commitment. Granted Dan isn't doing anything either, Dan just was in top position for 2 minutes. 

Last part of the 3rd round was actually shitty for both fighters. Looked worse for Lyoto the first time around b/c the fight was close and he just got taken down, but knowing the results the 2nd time watching, Dan could've/should've done more in the 3rd. Not sure what, but something.

 

3rd round was hard to score too b/c although Dan had octogon control/top position most of the fight, Lyoto landed the more significant strikes.

I stand by my original stance but even stronger, definitely a draw.

 

2/25/13 10:20 PM
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Oprahs Queefs Are My Air Supply
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D241 - 

Lets see gifs of these "hard shots" that would've dropped any other fighter.

 

Look, I'm not some bitter butthurt Hendo fan. I'd rather Hendo get knocked out brutally, than to lose a boring lack luster fight like this.

 

This is FIGHTING, not scoring points with fighting moves.

Fight should've been scored a draw. Hendo didn't do enough to win, but Machida damn sure didn't as well.

 

If the sport was about how can you hit someone without getting hit, he'd be perfect. But UFC started to figure out who was the baddest dude, and neither of these guys can walk away saying, "I'm clearly better than that guy". They can't even say they were clearly better that night.


Spot on.  It isn't about getting a stoppage its about actively trying to finish your opponent.

 

Take Maia vs Fitch as an example. Maia was always trying to finish that fight.

2/25/13 10:21 PM
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D241
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Glovegate - 

Please stop resorting to personal insults.  How come everyone who found Machida's gameplan boring and irritating is a "just bleed" moran?

If you want to argue that you enjoyed it that's fine but please be more civil and open minded.  People who disagree with you are not idiots by virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.

 

Machida has great finishing ability when he chooses to employ it.  He did not choose to do so against Dan.  Using Dan's iron chin is a pretty weak excuse, bro.  More people than Dan could have withstood what Machida dished out (or didn't, as it were) last night.  All these gifs just prove that.

 

Also this:

"Yes, I already said they were not the same. They were not as flush"

"He fought the same way he always fights"

is just ridiculous.  Don't insult people if you're going to contradict yourself within the space of a single post.  Chill, brother.

 

Cheers.


Exactly, I come here for friendly banter or debate, and who was the first to throw an insult? That's right Wasa-B and LayNPray.

 

Find me where I called you butthurt or anytype of insult.

You won't find it, yet somehow you will think you're quick witted and try to counter with this is just me being butthurt.

 

That's what's funny, the people saying I'm butthurt are in reality, the first to resort to insults instead of debating the topic at hand.

2/25/13 10:24 PM
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D241
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Oprahs Queefs Are My Air Supply - 
D241 - 

Lets see gifs of these "hard shots" that would've dropped any other fighter.

 

Look, I'm not some bitter butthurt Hendo fan. I'd rather Hendo get knocked out brutally, than to lose a boring lack luster fight like this.

 

This is FIGHTING, not scoring points with fighting moves.

Fight should've been scored a draw. Hendo didn't do enough to win, but Machida damn sure didn't as well.

 

If the sport was about how can you hit someone without getting hit, he'd be perfect. But UFC started to figure out who was the baddest dude, and neither of these guys can walk away saying, "I'm clearly better than that guy". They can't even say they were clearly better that night.


Spot on.  It isn't about getting a stoppage its about actively trying to finish your opponent.

 

Take Maia vs Fitch as an example. Maia was always trying to finish that fight.


That's a great example. Just earlier today I was talking with caseharts and I stated how if I bet on a fight, I have a stipulation that if the fight goes to decision, the bet is off. I had added however, that had I bet on Jon Fitch against Maia with that stipulation, I would've felt compelled to pay as Maia did more than enough in my opinion to show he was the better man that fight.

 

2/25/13 10:35 PM
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D241
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TopGrinder -  Neither of those guys won that match. Hendo chased like a slow rampage and machida ran like Starnes. Very dissapoint for two legends. Machida should of been docked a point or a warning for the running. At least when Condit fought Diaz he attempted to engage here and there...

In a supposed fight with no winners it should have been scored a draw Phone Post

Even though I can tell you're just butthurt, I wanted to say I love this post. Very accurate.

2/25/13 10:37 PM
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D241
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"Chuck Liddell looking over at our stat sheet, 'Did anyone land anything'"

 

And yet I'm the one being close minded, I don't see the brilliance of Machida in this fight, and I'm just butthurt.

I guess Chuck Liddell was butthurt too because he too was disappointed in the fight?

2/25/13 11:02 PM
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Zaph
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I always wonder why people argue over something as subjective as whether or not anything is boring.  I've never been bored by a Machida fight.  I enjoy anticipating each one of his strikes.  I like wondering what he's going to do next.  I enjoy the feints and mind games he plays against his opponents.  I enjoy the speed and precision of his techniques and movements.  However, I really don't care who else does. I dislike the fact that the public's perception of Machida is such that his UFC career could end quickly if he lost an unpopular fight, but otherwise, I'm not on a crusade to convince people that he's awesome.  I think he's awesome, and that's good enough for me.

That said, don't try to tell me for a second that Machida didn't win that fight.  That's just absurd. It wasn't even a particularly close fight.

2/25/13 11:30 PM
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Bloodstorm
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DamnSevern - 


this takedown was a thing of beauty
2/25/13 11:58 PM
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D241
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Zaph - 

I always wonder why people argue over something as subjective as whether or not anything is boring.  I've never been bored by a Machida fight.  I enjoy anticipating each one of his strikes.  I like wondering what he's going to do next.  I enjoy the feints and mind games he plays against his opponents.  I enjoy the speed and precision of his techniques and movements.  However, I really don't care who else does. I dislike the fact that the public's perception of Machida is such that his UFC career could end quickly if he lost an unpopular fight, but otherwise, I'm not on a crusade to convince people that he's awesome.  I think he's awesome, and that's good enough for me.

That said, don't try to tell me for a second that Machida didn't win that fight.  That's just absurd. It wasn't even a particularly close fight.


Even though we disagree on whether Machida vs Hendo was convincing or not, I'm voting you up b/c you articulated yourself well, plus I admire your I don't give a fuck attitude. Keep that and you'll be happier easier.

 

 

2/26/13 12:03 AM
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D241
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You know, it's biased b/c the thread starter, no matter what side he's on, he has massive influence for 1-

He's arguably the best poster on this site

2-he's got influence b/c of his awesomeness

3-he's got the ability to make awesome gifs for any fight. 

 

I know the fight wasn't once sided or clear cut winner b/c I just watched it for a 2nd time recently, but I know there's possible gifs that if 5 done in a row it would paint the picture of the fight a different way.

 

I know people won't believe this, but I try to look at fights that went like this as far as how each guy could've done better. Lyoto had many advantages in this fight and he didn't use them offensively nearly as much as he could've. 

He could've been in and out more often which would've made Dan come forward everytime b/c he(Dan) did come forward everytime Lyoto initiated the striking. When Lyoto did throw and back up, he only backed up, when there were plenty of times for him to use his speed and be in and out. 

The more Lyoto would've been in and out, the more Dan would've chased him. I'd assume Lyoto would have the better gas tank and could use that to his advantage, tiring Dan out in the 3rd round and having more of a speed/quickness advantage.

 

This fight isn't just about how Dan didn't do enough, it's about how Lyoto didn't live up to his potential as well.

2/26/13 12:27 AM
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Fudge Cake
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Didn't Machida land a spinning jab or something near the end of the 3rd round? I was hoping to see a replay of that but don't think they ever showed it.
2/26/13 12:58 AM
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Neil McCauley
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only viewed the gifs, but thanks DS for shedding some light on the DERP that are "fans" on this forum.
2/26/13 1:15 AM
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Wasa-B
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
D241 - 

The irony of someone with the screen name "lay and pray" sticking up for the elusive Lyoto Machida is rich.

 

 

The counter argument for those that say Machida didn't win is, "waaaaah, you're butthurt" makes it obvious that's all you have to say.

 


No the counter argument has been made over and over, but you refuse to accept it and keep crying about not enough action for your viewing pleasure. He was the more "Effective Striker" in a fight that was 80% striking. He did everything better than Henderson outside of "moving forward" that doesn't even score in MMA unless it is "EFFECTIVE aggression".

 

 

To compare a counter striker that is as accurate and devastating as Machida to "LnP" just shows how butthurt or ignorant you really are.

 

 

 

Fucking guy has one of the best HL reel finishes of all UFC fighters.....he cannot put away a guy who has NEVER been KO'd and all of a sudden dipshits are comparing his to LaynPray and Kalib Starnes.

 

Then they wonder why people call them butthurt idiots...



2/26/13 1:31 AM
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mofomike
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DamnSevern - 


that was beautiful but the rest of the fight sucked ass

2/26/13 2:42 AM
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HoursOfLurking
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Loved how machida pull back from striking after bader got ko. Phone Post
2/26/13 3:01 AM
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kylekanada
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Yeah, I remember a spinning jab counter. In for gif
2/26/13 6:47 AM
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FedorEmilioEstevez
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Love these gifs Phone Post
2/26/13 8:28 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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D241 -
Glovegate - 

Please stop resorting to personal insults.  How come everyone who found Machida's gameplan boring and irritating is a "just bleed" moran?

If you want to argue that you enjoyed it that's fine but please be more civil and open minded.  People who disagree with you are not idiots by virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.

 

Machida has great finishing ability when he chooses to employ it.  He did not choose to do so against Dan.  Using Dan's iron chin is a pretty weak excuse, bro.  More people than Dan could have withstood what Machida dished out (or didn't, as it were) last night.  All these gifs just prove that.

 

Also this:

"Yes, I already said they were not the same. They were not as flush"

"He fought the same way he always fights"

is just ridiculous.  Don't insult people if you're going to contradict yourself within the space of a single post.  Chill, brother.

 

Cheers.


Exactly, I come here for friendly banter or debate, and who was the first to throw an insult? That's right Wasa-B and LayNPray.

 

Find me where I called you butthurt or anytype of insult.

You won't find it, yet somehow you will think you're quick witted and try to counter with this is just me being butthurt.

 

That's what's funny, the people saying I'm butthurt are in reality, the first to resort to insults instead of debating the topic at hand.

The ironing. Phone Post

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