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S&C UnderGround >> Question for Vermonter re hypertrophy


3/13/13 1:27 AM
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salyer36
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What if you did a conjugated periodization and concentrated on strength and hypertrophy? You would train you main lift as a power lifter and your supplement lifts as a bodybuilder.

Sort of like a modified westisde program like WS4SKB but tailored to your schedule.
3/13/13 6:10 AM
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Leigh
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Well, I'm no longer interested in bar strength, simply muscle mass. I will build the neural component on the mat. All I want to do is minimise the amount of time I have to lift. Seems to me, all I really have to do is keep my calories up and maybe put in the odd 20 mins lifting once a week or every other week. No longer will I be chasing numbers in the gym, I'll be chasing numbers on the scale and with BF %age.
3/13/13 9:38 AM
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Leigh
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Yes, I maintained most of my strength with just the 1 rep c&j. I do a 1RM max each week. I did lose strength on other lifts after a while but only by about 5% over 4 months. If you think its an issue, add in a few sub-max reps every few weeks.
3/13/13 3:13 PM
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HERTSWENIP
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Leigh - Yes, I maintained most of my strength with just the 1 rep c&j. I do a 1RM max each week. I did lose strength on other lifts after a while but only by about 5% over 4 months. If you think its an issue, add in a few sub-max reps every few weeks.

Leigh, approximately how much would you have to increase your training volume to increase your strength past this 1 rep per week "maintenance level" ?
3/13/13 3:15 PM
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jeremy hamilton
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^^^Probably 2 reps...
3/13/13 3:17 PM
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HERTSWENIP
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Edited: 03/13/13 4:11 PM
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lol. I thought he used to do 3 reps per week, before finally reducing it to 1?
3/13/13 8:03 PM
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Leigh
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Haha

I think doing the lift twice a week would be necessary to see improvements. Or eat more. Phone Post
3/13/13 11:34 PM
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6mildollarman
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Very good thread to jack to! Phone Post
3/14/13 8:38 AM
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Leigh
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1rm every week would be a killer - if you were doing other lifting. Its the only lift I do so its manageable. You could do 1 heavy set of more reps instead if you wanted but because of the low volume you need to keep intensity high (in weight lifting terms, not in aggression terms).
3/14/13 11:02 AM
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Leigh
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Yes, I gained 2 inches in 6 weeks following Joel Jamieson's guide. My conclusion was that getting stronger and practising jumping resulted in better jumping but the jumping practise wasn't required if I wanted to build explosive power for a different activity.

For example, if I wanted a better wrestling shot, I'd be better off getting stronger and practising wrestling, rather than doing plyos.
3/14/13 11:44 AM
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jeremy hamilton
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BBallfan - 
Leigh - Yes, I gained 2 inches in 6 weeks following Joel Jamieson's guide. My conclusion was that getting stronger and practising jumping resulted in better jumping but the jumping practise wasn't required if I wanted to build explosive power for a different activity.

For example, if I wanted a better wrestling shot, I'd be better off getting stronger and practising wrestling, rather than doing plyos.

It sounds like explosiveness is very specific. I have heard of guys that have a great box jump but it didn't transfer to their vertical jump and so on.

Do you still think that a strong squat doesn't necesarilly predict one's jumping ability? I think this is true. I doubt alot of NBA guys have tremendous squat numbers.


Box jump I think involves a ton of flexibility. Some guys can jump on to crazy high boxes but they also have their knees up by their heads when they land.

Not much correlation from squatting abilty to jumping. I think a good jumper will become better by training their squat but only to a certain point. A 2xbw squat will have your legs more than strong enough for jumping, shooting for a 3xbw would probably be pointless if your goal is vertical leap.
3/14/13 11:57 AM
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jeremy hamilton
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^^^ I am not saying a 2x bw squat will give you the best vertical in the world, I am just saying that you legs are plenty strong enough and you should probably practice more jumping instead of squatting.

And yes, losing bodyfat would probably help too.
3/14/13 12:16 PM
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jeremy hamilton
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What the fuck do I know about jumping though. This is just my opinion.

Kelly Baggett has a lot of good stuff on his site about jumping.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/articles.html
3/14/13 12:17 PM
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vermonter
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I concur with Jeremy. 2x bodyweight squat is plenty of general strength for jumping. And probably not too high that the extra muscle weight would interfere with a relative intensity exercise like your vert.

And to BBallfan: You are correct that losing bodyfat will help tremeandously. When doing relative weight exercises, being very lean is a huge advantage.
3/14/13 1:15 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 03/14/13 1:18 PM
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BBallfan - 
vermonter - I concur with Jeremy. 2x bodyweight squat is plenty of general strength for jumping. And probably not too high that the extra muscle weight would interfere with a relative intensity exercise like your vert.

And to BBallfan: You are correct that losing bodyfat will help tremeandously. When doing relative weight exercises, being very lean is a huge advantage.

My fat ass needs to lose some weight. It's depressing because I saw a vid of Michael Jordan dunking at 48 years old. Even old and out of shape he can still dunk. But then again it is MJ I'm talking about, so it's no surprise.

Well Jordan is very athletic (i.e. "out of shape" is relative here), spent many years jumping, and is much closer to the hoop than the average person at 6'6". Considering that i am 6' even myself, I would need a 6 inch better vertical than him to match his feats, which is a huge difference. And that's just to get my head to the same place... for dunking his arms are also much longer, so the difference is probably closer to 10"
3/14/13 1:58 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 03/14/13 1:59 PM
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BBallfan - 
vermonter - 
BBallfan - 
vermonter - I concur with Jeremy. 2x bodyweight squat is plenty of general strength for jumping. And probably not too high that the extra muscle weight would interfere with a relative intensity exercise like your vert.

And to BBallfan: You are correct that losing bodyfat will help tremeandously. When doing relative weight exercises, being very lean is a huge advantage.

My fat ass needs to lose some weight. It's depressing because I saw a vid of Michael Jordan dunking at 48 years old. Even old and out of shape he can still dunk. But then again it is MJ I'm talking about, so it's no surprise.

Well Jordan is very athletic (i.e. "out of shape" is relative here), spent many years jumping, and is much closer to the hoop than the average person at 6'6". Considering that i am 6' even myself, I would need a 6 inch better vertical than him to match his feats, which is a huge difference. And that's just to get my head to the same place... for dunking his arms are also much longer, so the difference is probably closer to 10"

Good points about Jordan. If I told you how short I am you would laugh that I even mentioned Jordan in the first place. I will get my jumping ability out of the suck zone into the less suck zone though. I doubt I will ever dunk, but I still want to improve anyway.

Let's do some math to figure out the importance of weight, beause math is fun.

Let's say I'm right about the 10 inch difference in vert. Let's also assume that that google is right, and jordan was about 215 in bodyweight, so he has roughly 20 lbs on me. Big advantage for me right? Let's find out.

me: (10 - 7.5) * 195 = 487.5

Jordan: (10 - 8.33) * 215 = 359.05

487.5 - 359.05 = 128.45 = 41.62 calories

So I would need just over 41.5 calories more than jordan just to touch the rim in a single jump. To put it in perspective, the difference is nearly as much as a powerlifting bench press with a 45 lb plate on each side of an olympic bar. Imagine adding that much energy to an already difficult lift. Major difference.

So how much weight would I need to lose for to compensate for the height difference? Let's find out!

128.45 / 2.5 = 51.38

195 - 51.38 = 143.62

So in order to match jordan's energy output at my height to touch the rim, i'd have to lose a little over 50 lbs, weighing in at 143.62. At 6' tall i may no longer have the muscle to generate the required energy to touch the rim at that weight.
3/14/13 9:03 PM
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salyer36
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For what its worth:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/54-dirty-tricks-for-higher-vertical-jumps.html
3/15/13 2:36 AM
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HERTSWENIP
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Edited: 03/15/13 2:45 AM
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*Side note: Type II, fast twitch fibers are much more efficient at rapid elastic energy storage than type I. A person with a high type II makeup will not only be able to produce more power for vertical jumping, but will be able to store and use more elastic energy from a running start (no one dunks from a standstill) than someone with average fiber type makeup.
3/15/13 9:35 AM
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ShamusO'nyou
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ttt

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