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BJJGround Forum >> Blacks/Browns:dealing with athletic blues/purples?


3/6/13 12:42 PM
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LetsTalkItOut
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Blacks or browns... When you roll with really athletic and strong blues or purples, how does this usually go for you?

I'm a brown and I'm not athletic, roll relaxed, and if a lower belt wants to go hard then I'll play defensive. If there were points involved I wouldn't be doing well but I find submissions much better than if I amped up my level to match theirs.

Thoughts on how YOU roll with athletic lower belts? Do you chill and preserve yourself for a roll with a brown/black, or step up and match their pace?
3/6/13 1:13 PM
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CodeGeek
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I'm not a brown, but I've been a purple for a long time, and I'm getting up there in years. Young, strong, athletic guys are tough to deal with, and that's just how it is. I don't have the gas tank and speed to match that, as much as I've tried over the years. I've finally accepted that being a --insert belt color-- doesn't mean always beating a lower belt. These days I try to just have fun and flow with whatever energy my partner brings.
3/6/13 1:36 PM
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kcbjj
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Edited: 03/06/13 1:36 PM
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I'm 41, not a great athlete, not very strong, black belt, been doing BJJ since '98, bad back, and it's hard. I can get balled up by high level competitors. I'm sure whoever was a purple belt contender at any of the big tournaments would ball me up too. I'm basically a hobbyist that just didn't quit.

I'm also not an encyclopedia of moves either. I too also browse youtube for moves and strategies and stuff like that.
3/6/13 1:43 PM
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BigEyedFish
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I make sure that if Im in a bad position that I can get both shoulders on the mat IF Im being forced into a position that I cannot resist because I made an error or whatnot.

Own my elbows and neck

Not care about winning/escaping/countering.

I get comfortable with the helplessness and then from that comfort my vision where opportunity is concerned improves.
3/6/13 1:55 PM
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Wutang
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What are you looking to do in the roll? Survive? Win?

IMO, pressure usually does the trick.
3/6/13 1:57 PM
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TheBearStare
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it depends. intelligently speaking its best not to play fire with fire. if you turn it into a hard paced match or get scramble happy you are playing to their strength because they are athletically superior(thats their great equalizer.) so its best to slow it down and use your own strength which is your "bjj wisdom" and superior technique.

however, sometimes i know its good for me nonetheless to just go balls to the wall with them because its a good skill to develop in itself.
3/6/13 2:07 PM
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Rick Screeton
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Thank god for the gi   :)

3/6/13 2:25 PM
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The Cicada
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Unless you are a guy/gal with a very limiting injury with the real possibility for re-injury, you should look to ramp it up every now and then with someone who is highly athletic and motivated. The underlying reason (at least for me) for training is to learn skills that will protect me on the streets. I am not looking to score 3 pts all the time. I am looking for real life skills to use against a strong, fast, unwilling opponent. That is why I got into the martial arts arena, self defense. Guys on the streets are not just going to sit around and play 50% patty cake games when they are trying to hurt me. They are going to be moving fast and with violence. We all need a reminder of that sometimes as we get lulled into all the new age bjj point/tournament stuff. Just my take.
3/6/13 2:27 PM
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checkuroil
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Try and outlast the storm Phone Post
3/6/13 2:34 PM
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apollo
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Try to get on top and lock them down. They will usually wear out trying to escape then have your way with them.
3/6/13 2:38 PM
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zeerebel
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Edited: 03/06/13 2:39 PM
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I am 41 years old. 5'3" and 145 lbs and have full time job. I am purple belt 1 stripe and 2nd degree in Judo.

I teach an average of 12 hours a week. I am recovering from tear rotator cuff.

So my students kick my butt all the time. I rolled with young athletic MMA guys just to gauge where they are. I like to pick students who are closer to my sizes so that I can get up in the morning.

There are days where I just don't want to be at the gym. But there is no one to help me the run the class. So I just grind it out. I know I am more technical than my students but at the end of the day fighting is fighting.

I coin a phrase that help keep things in perspective. Combat Sports is Athletic Movement with Violent Intention.
3/6/13 2:39 PM
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LetsTalkItOut
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Some good points are being brought up. I'd like to say I take it easy and really focus on being technical and it all works out but it just doesn't end up working out that way. If I go too easy, I end up playing too much into what they are doing and I get run over and the rest of the roll I am fighting them off or just trying to recover to a better position.

I see two choices, taking it and just embracing the helplessness bigeyedfish mentioned and going the keep it playful approach or stop being "lazy" and take it to them. Thoughts on this?
3/6/13 2:41 PM
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BigEyedFish
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just understand it is helplessness with purpose. Defense and thought. Then you react. GJJ philosophy is the opposite of what is being discussed here. Its not about pushing back. Its about not losing first, and then finding a way to win second. You have to be smart and technical about it.
3/6/13 2:41 PM
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zeerebel
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Edited: 03/06/13 2:42 PM
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I catch my students when they make a mistake. I can't force my position anymore. I just lack the strength.
I also notice that my spinning arm bar off side mount, knee on belly are not as successful because I lack speed and sometime the strength to finish the arm bar.

Also Judo throws and getting harder and harder for me to setup.
3/6/13 2:45 PM
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zeerebel
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GJJ philosophy has to be taken with grain of salt. When striking are employed Keep it playful will get you smashed.
3/6/13 2:48 PM
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zeerebel
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@ The Cicada
On days where I feel fresh and relax. I am hyper speed and I rolled fast. Just like you said I don't want to fall in love with the slow and methodical because I want to make sure I can handle myself.
3/6/13 2:49 PM
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BigEyedFish
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Not one person at the GJJ Academy will tell you that you should take the same keep it playful approach when in a real fight situation. Not a single one.
3/6/13 2:53 PM
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That Guy in the Back
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I focus on clean technique and setups. I don't get into takedown wars with the young explosive guys, but have been known to throw them or sweep them consistently. Being that I'm old (brown belt) and past my prime, I try to go harder when they push, but I never go 100%.

My main focus is to not get hurt and have fun while learning. Phone Post
3/6/13 2:55 PM
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A_Butler
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I'm the strong, athletic, in shape, fast paced, pressuring blue belt. I get out techniqued. The couple of browns and blacks I roll with wait for that positional error and capitalize on it. My coach is a current UFC vet and black belt so he can out last me in the conditioning game. Plus, he's got the upper hand in technique. But the guys that don't compete for a living usually just wait til I do something stupid and make me pay dearly for it. Phone Post
3/6/13 3:06 PM
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htownbjj
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Edited: 03/06/13 3:08 PM
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I'm old, slow, and weak. I avoid muscling moves as much as possible and try to keep it fun and relaxed.

One thing that does help a lot is to focus on arm drags and two-on-ones from bottom (MGInaction plug, also the Emily Kwok version of Marcelo's game). Usually as a higher belt, the grip battle is in your favor, so if you can take control of one arm, it slows down the roll and sets up nice sweeps and backtakes, etc.

I also choose to let myself get put in bad positions all the time, and I think that de-escalates a lot of potentially high-intensity rolls. My training partners don't usually think passing my guard, getting mount, and so on are such a big deal and so they don't try to fight me to the death.

If I'm escaping a bad position, I use a lot of frames as well as try to use timing in my favor. It's hard for lower belts to keep continuous pressure, so usually there's an opportunity to pummel for the underhook and so on.

Keeping it playful really is a good motto.
3/6/13 3:09 PM
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BigEyedFish
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GREAT post ^ especially the part about taking control of one arm. I started doing that last year and it really helps.
3/6/13 3:14 PM
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puppet
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In. Phone Post
3/6/13 3:22 PM
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TBoy2
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Great, thread. I'm 45 and a 4 stripe purple. I wondered how other non-athletic higher belts did with strong athletic guys. But, more importantly what strategy their used.

I have good days and bad like everyone else. Felt bummed out last week when I got smashed by a very strong blue belt wrestler and then a couple of purple belts. Especially when I will be a brown soon.
3/6/13 3:25 PM
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RPBJJ
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slow them down and start using some serious technique.

Im a brown belt, but Im 225 and pretty athletic but at almost 36 Im slowing down man. So Im working the basics even more than when I was a white belt. Eventually the fancy shit stops working and you better have some good basic to fall back on.
3/6/13 3:30 PM
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puppet
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Have you older guys/higher belts noticed an increase of athletic, lower belt level bjj players since the sudden increase of popularity? Phone Post

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