UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> TOP SEX REASSIGNMENT DOCS WEIGH IN ON FALLON FOX


3/8/13 9:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Trojan Rubber Guard
83 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/18/09
Posts: 2148
Crooklyn -

Fallon's opponent from her last fight:

 

Fun story, this Ericka chick got KOd in her first fight 3 seconds quicker than Fallon KOd her Phone Post
3/8/13 9:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Crooklyn
678 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/11/07
Posts: 42448
Butter, 'cuz I'm on a roll!

The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.

3/8/13 9:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bearded Collie Herds Orca
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/26/12
Posts: 111
For anyone who cares, here's the scientific reason why she shouldn't be allowed (the science behind why she should be allowed has already been stated). Hormones have two ways of influencing the form of an organism: Organizational effects and Activational Effects. Organizational effects dictate the gross structure of the body, and in typical cases lead not only to genital sexual differentiation but also to brain and body sexual differentiation. These occur extremely early in development (from fetus to very young infant). Activational effects are the effects that come during puberty and beyond. They're called activational because they are a second hormone bath that "activates" the latent male/female "organization".

In other words, even if she's been on hormone therapy, etc, her mind and body still bear the stamp of the early male hormone bath she encountered as a fetus and very, very young infant. That stuff can't be reversed, no matter how many hormones she pumps in as an adult. The organizational effects of that early male hormone bath still linger in the form of her body and brain.

3/8/13 10:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HexRei
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/4/07
Posts: 12701
KingstonHawkeJr - Are we all pretending that she doesn't look like a man? Just look at ANY of her pictures. Before I even read the article when I saw the picture I thought to myself "who the hell is this manly looking ass chick". She looks more manly than Cyborg, and Cyborg was pumping male hormones into her body. This is a non-issue. And everyone being politically correct isn't helping.

Yeah, lets ignore science and just go off your opinion based on a picture you saw on the internet.
3/8/13 10:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Odinson
54 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/20/10
Posts: 6212
In other new. Top pharmaceutical exec says " Take xanax everyday for a happy life." Of course this lady would advocate for this. Because an "expert" spoke it is now written in stone.
3/8/13 10:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HexRei
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/4/07
Posts: 12702
Crooklyn - 

The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


Ronda's actually fought heavier than 145.
3/8/13 10:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GayGuardMooseSaucy
441 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/4/11
Posts: 10378
Born a woman, you should fight women
Born a man, you should fight men

Just my opinion Phone Post
3/8/13 10:12 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Aaron Becker
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/8/11
Posts: 237
GayGuardMooseSaucy -  Born a woman, you should fight women
Born a man, you should fight men

Just my opinion Phone Post

sounds good to me
3/8/13 10:13 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JSF1984
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/14/11
Posts: 108
Johnzandt - Perfect example of how the science should lead the opinion. I, myself, though she would have a distinct physical advantage, but after reading the experts testimony I now completely agree with Miss Fallon and think she should be allowed to compete in WMMA. Cheers, great read.
Wow that easy to convince you huh? Not buying this bs this "MD" is spewing. Q Phone Post
3/8/13 10:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BrandCarey
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/18/11
Posts: 127
While I respect the fact that the doctor has intimate knowledge with the procedure and the SRS process, I believe asking a trasgendered doctor who is a leading force in these type of suregeries their opinion on whether or not this is acceptable is a huge conflict of interest. This is the same as Big Tobacco doing studies on the effect of cigarettes. A person with a vested interest in the matter is hardly an unbiased opinion, no matter how hard they try.

Furthermore, why has no one talked about what happens if Fallon stops taking the hormones? I do not claim to know the answer but it would stand to reason that Fallon's body would begin to produce testosterone at a level that someone born a man would. Granted this would not immediately reverse the estrogen treatments but I would have to guess it would be somewhat similar to a normal woman taking testosterone.

Anyone have info on this?
3/8/13 10:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chomas
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/29/09
Posts: 13676
None of these opinions are really objective, the one subjective opinion that is valuable would be her potential opponents.

Sorry if you have a 5 O Clock shadow on your tits then you need to be fighting men. Phone Post
3/8/13 10:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jweinberg
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5504
Nitecrawler - Hillary Williams:

I competed against her in 2010 and nothing, behavior, strength, etc. would have clued me into her being anything other than biologically female. Not to mention the doctors showing her levels are good. Gender and sexual identity are so much more complicated than the scientifically illiterate like to accept, and if she's happy this way while phenotypically female (including hormone levels), well I wish her the best.


Beautifully stated by Hillary.  I agree.

3/8/13 10:18 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
6ULDV8
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14972

This is not even an argument.  If there are no sexes and men fight women at the professional level because there's no difference then fine.

 

There are differences between the sexes though and you can't just chop your dick off and go beat up women.

 

It's laughable, but kind of sad, that anyone is even defending this.

3/8/13 10:18 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JSF1984
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/14/11
Posts: 109
Chupacabro - "MB: Most measures of physical strength minimize, muscle mass decreases, bone density decreases, and they become fairly comparable to women in their musculature. After as much time as has passed in her case, if tested, she would probably end up in the same muscle mass category as her biologically born female counterpart"

Most measures....fairly comparable.....probably end up

The needle on my bullshit meter is all the way in the red. Phone Post
Glad somebody else picked up on that too Phone Post
3/8/13 10:26 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
gregnog
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/13/10
Posts: 44
Isn't the fact that the doctor is transgender kind of make this a bit weird listening to her opinion on the subject?

Maybe that's just me.
3/8/13 10:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JSF1984
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/14/11
Posts: 110
Crooklyn -

The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.

So you're saying that Ronda Rousey vs Renan Barao would be a fair fight because they're the same height and weight? Phone Post
3/8/13 10:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Brandable
74 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/9/12
Posts: 1271

What a ridiculous story. Let this shit die. 33 years of development as a man does not go away with 2 years of hormone therapy. This guy has many advantages over a naturally progressed woman, and this whole charade is fucking disgusting.  Really fucking sick and tired of this bullshit PC world we live in. This shouldn't have ever made the news. Does he have ovaries, and a uterus? No? Then he is a man. Does he have 2 X chromosomes? No? Then it's a fucking man. 

Let's not forget the only reason Fallon came out, was because a coach caught him, and the coach was going to tell everyone, because he thought it wasnt fair. This wasnt an act of integrity or honor, or him making a mark in the LGBT community, this was pure cheating, he got caught, and now the media is helping him spin it so that he is the victim. Everyone that has reported on this story has failed to even bring that up. Hack journalism at it's best. This is why people typically have to go to college and then intern for some years, but in MMA, just setup a wordpress blog and you're a 'pro'.

But sure, let a man beat up on a woman, who cares right? We're only trying to legitimize the sport, let's throw away the last 17 of work so some mentally diseased dude can beat the shit out of women, all because some of you dont have the spine to admit that he is a twisted fuck. 

Good call.

3/8/13 10:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Brandable
74 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/9/12
Posts: 1272
Crooklyn - 

The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.

3/8/13 10:34 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chupacabro
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/9/12
Posts: 53
Not flexing at weigh-ins... smart move on mr Fox's part. Look as soft and feminine as you can, despite the 33" waist. Phone Post
3/8/13 10:34 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
6ULDV8
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14973
octowussy - 
6ULDV8 - 

This is not even an argument.  If there are no sexes and men fight women at the professional level because there's no difference then fine.

 

There are differences between the sexes though and you can't just chop your dick off and go beat up women.

 

It's laughable, but kind of sad, that anyone is even defending this.


Yes, because SRS is just "chopping your dick off". An intelligent point made by what I'm sure is a very intelligent man.

It is what it is and if people want to do it, I have no problem with that.

 

If you want to change yourself to the weaker sex from the stronger one and then engage in hand to hand combat with the weaker sex for your chosen profession, it is beyond ridiculous.

 

I really can't believe anyone is arguing for this.  Humanity has gone full retard.

 

 

3/8/13 10:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Darup
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/10
Posts: 5530
What do you expect sex change doctors to say? Come pay us for a sex change that won't make you fully female. No of course these guys will say the operation makes the guy a full woman. Phone Post
3/8/13 10:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chupacabro
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/9/12
Posts: 54
I think the answer here is obvious. He fights Cyborg. If he makes it out of the first round, he's still a man and must not be allowed to fight women. If not, she's legit and good to go. Phone Post
3/8/13 10:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Crooklyn
678 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/11/07
Posts: 42450
Butter, 'cuz I'm on a roll!
BrandCarey - While I respect the fact that the doctor has intimate knowledge with the procedure and the SRS process, I believe asking a trasgendered doctor who is a leading force in these type of suregeries their opinion on whether or not this is acceptable is a huge conflict of interest. This is the same as Big Tobacco doing studies on the effect of cigarettes. A person with a vested interest in the matter is hardly an unbiased opinion, no matter how hard they try.

Furthermore, why has no one talked about what happens if Fallon stops taking the hormones? I do not claim to know the answer but it would stand to reason that Fallon's body would begin to produce testosterone at a level that someone born a man would. Granted this would not immediately reverse the estrogen treatments but I would have to guess it would be somewhat similar to a normal woman taking testosterone.

Anyone have info on this?

How about you actually read the article? I specifically asked what happens if she stops and one of the physicians answered.

3/8/13 10:41 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Crooklyn
678 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/11/07
Posts: 42451
Butter, 'cuz I'm on a roll!
Brandable - 
Crooklyn - 

The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.

3/8/13 10:41 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
whoabro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/22/07
Posts: 9081
Aaron Becker - biased doctors will be biased towards their kind of patients. It's good for business
Yup.

Im by no means bigoted against trans people, but im still very skeptical about allowing them in sports.

Competing in mma is not a right btw. Phone Post

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.