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UnderGround Forums >> TOP SEX REASSIGNMENT DOCS WEIGH IN ON FALLON FOX

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3/8/13 11:32 AM
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Crooklyn
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The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.

You should interview endocrinologists not plastic surgeons. The physicians you interviewed are no more knowledgable about the effects of hormones on a person than your run of the mill ER doc. So their words hold absolutely no merit and you wasted an afternoon on a pointless interview. Phone Post

Really? These doctors know nothing you say? Well color me confused.

Your response was limited because you know I'm right. If you're an RN like you say you know I'm absolutely 100% right and you came back with that sorry ass response to throw people off the trail. Phone Post

I don't think you're right. There. Now what?

3/8/13 11:32 AM
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Slevin Kalevra
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unless its a juiced up cyborg
3/8/13 11:33 AM
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scrapdo
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Nitecrawler - 
Aaron Becker - I don't care what has been done in the last 6-7 years, she shouldn't be fighting girls. I don't think that a girls punch or kick can do as much damage to her as it could to a real girl



MB: Most measures of physical strength minimize, muscle mass decreases, bone density decreases, and they become fairly comparable to women in their musculature. After as much time as has passed in her case, if tested, she would probably end up in the same muscle mass category as her biologically born female counterpart.


"fairly comparable" is not the same thing as "no advantage"
This! Even a gender reassignment doc, "herself" a transgender can even say its equal. IMO u have every right to be a transgender but you don't have the right to fight women...especially when you purposely failed to disclose. In fact, "she" should be penalized (no pun intended) for failure to disclose in her previous fights. Phone Post
3/8/13 11:33 AM
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The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.


But yet you feature this one first, during all the media hoopla, purely to create a buzz, instead of combining the two into a well written article with viewpoints from both sides. 

That's selective journalism, something they teach you if you actually went to college for journalism.


I presented this first because ZI interviewed these two physicians first and had the article written up and in a post queue already. The other interview wasn't conducted until late yesterday evening and isn't finished. Take your bullshit elsewhere. You don't know me, so don't pretend to know my ethics.

 

What does knowing you have to do with anything? Are we 'keeping it real'? Give me a break. I pointed out an article you wrote was selective journalism (ask ANY actual journalist, they will agree), and given your emotional retort, i'd say you are more involved than you let on. Either way, i look forward to seeing the tone of the article with the doctor who disagrees. Maybe we can review an actual hormonal expert this time, and not someone who stands to gain from all the media buzz. Maybe.

 


You presume to know why I put this piece up, or in what context it was intended. Media buzz had nothing to do with it. I saw all the questions in the other thread, and had some of my own, so I reached out to some physicians to get some expert opinions. My next piece is not with a hormonal expert. It's with a board certified orthapedic surgeon so I could pose questions to him about bone density, length of bones, etc.

For the record, he was the one who actually changed my mind about this whole topic and made me rethink my stance on it. I actually feel that much more testing and research needs to be done before transgender people compete in combat sports, despite the fact that there are a couple already competing. It's not because "Doh, he used to have a peener!" either. It's about having a complete study done with complete testing on skeletal structure, what the actual percentage is of the decrease in bone and muscle density,etc. Because there are so few professional athletes in the transgender community, I think current expert opinion is kind of limited. 


Thank you for your response, and i apologize if i was coming across as attacking you personally, or judging your trade. This debate obviously can cause a lot of flareups that boil over. I look forward to the next installment.

3/8/13 11:34 AM
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scrapdo
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3/8/13 11:35 AM
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torquemada
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Nitecrawler - Hillary Williams:

I competed against her in 2010 and nothing, behavior, strength, etc. would have clued me into her being anything other than biologically female. Not to mention the doctors showing her levels are good. Gender and sexual identity are so much more complicated than the scientifically illiterate like to accept, and if she's happy this way while phenotypically female (including hormone levels), well I wish her the best.


I still think it's weird to have you penis sliced like a banana and shoved up into your body.

I guess I am among the masses that are scientifically illiterate.
3/8/13 11:36 AM
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Letibleu
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Crooklyn is a she 0_o ! (shows how ignorant I am to general knowledge)
 
 
 
My question: I read that a man has an easier time cutting weight than a woman (water weight I assume with a small % of fat weight). On the same tangent, I also read a man can cut a higher percentage of weight. Is this true.
 
 
 
IF the above statement is true, does a transgender (male to female) posses a possible measurable advantage in that regard (whether it be slight or significant). Do we know scientifically or is it an educated guess?
3/8/13 11:40 AM
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Johnzandt - Perfect example of how the science should lead the opinion. I, myself, though she would have a distinct physical advantage, but after reading the experts testimony I now completely agree with Miss Fallon and think she should be allowed to compete in WMMA. Cheers, great read.

Ok Tom Cruise.... answer this - can it get pregnant and have a baby?

Then it is not a woman.

Science does not understand morality. Science is responsible for crack, should we all become crack heads?



'Ok Tom Cruise.... answer this - can it get pregnant and have a baby?'

Alright... um... John Travolta... are women who can't have babies not women?

 

In general this is a very difficult topic. Definitely needs more research before she should be allowed to compete again (nothing personal against her).

3/8/13 11:41 AM
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Crooklyn
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The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.


But yet you feature this one first, during all the media hoopla, purely to create a buzz, instead of combining the two into a well written article with viewpoints from both sides. 

That's selective journalism, something they teach you if you actually went to college for journalism.


I presented this first because ZI interviewed these two physicians first and had the article written up and in a post queue already. The other interview wasn't conducted until late yesterday evening and isn't finished. Take your bullshit elsewhere. You don't know me, so don't pretend to know my ethics.

 

What does knowing you have to do with anything? Are we 'keeping it real'? Give me a break. I pointed out an article you wrote was selective journalism (ask ANY actual journalist, they will agree), and given your emotional retort, i'd say you are more involved than you let on. Either way, i look forward to seeing the tone of the article with the doctor who disagrees. Maybe we can review an actual hormonal expert this time, and not someone who stands to gain from all the media buzz. Maybe.

 


You presume to know why I put this piece up, or in what context it was intended. Media buzz had nothing to do with it. I saw all the questions in the other thread, and had some of my own, so I reached out to some physicians to get some expert opinions. My next piece is not with a hormonal expert. It's with a board certified orthapedic surgeon so I could pose questions to him about bone density, length of bones, etc.

For the record, he was the one who actually changed my mind about this whole topic and made me rethink my stance on it. I actually feel that much more testing and research needs to be done before transgender people compete in combat sports, despite the fact that there are a couple already competing. It's not because "Doh, he used to have a peener!" either. It's about having a complete study done with complete testing on skeletal structure, what the actual percentage is of the decrease in bone and muscle density,etc. Because there are so few professional athletes in the transgender community, I think current expert opinion is kind of limited. 


Thank you for your response, and i apologize if i was coming across as attacking you personally, or judging your trade. This debate obviously can cause a lot of flareups that boil over. I look forward to the next installment.


No problem. It IS a really hot button topic, but my agenda is basically to present two sides. I feel that people digest thing better in smaller doses, so my idea was to present the "pro" side today and the "con" side tomorrow. 

I don't want to appear with a hard bias for the con side, however, it's really hard for me to blindly accept this right off the bat with no official studies having been completed for the combat sports arena. Finesse sports and single competitor sports like running, and the triathlons are a whole other ballgame, but when you factor in punches and kicks and possible strength advantages, the water doesn't run so clear anymore.

One last thing. As far as my not interviewing a hormone therapist, it was an oversight on my part. Fallon is post-op, and doesn't produce testosterone like a male anymore. The moment her testicles were removed, the playing field was leveled, hormonally. I will probably reach out to one now, just to get an expert opinion on the effects of estrogen on muscle mass, though.

3/8/13 11:41 AM
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The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.


But yet you feature this one first, during all the media hoopla, purely to create a buzz, instead of combining the two into a well written article with viewpoints from both sides. 

That's selective journalism, something they teach you if you actually went to college for journalism.


I presented this first because ZI interviewed these two physicians first and had the article written up and in a post queue already. The other interview wasn't conducted until late yesterday evening and isn't finished. Take your bullshit elsewhere. You don't know me, so don't pretend to know my ethics.

 

What does knowing you have to do with anything? Are we 'keeping it real'? Give me a break. I pointed out an article you wrote was selective journalism (ask ANY actual journalist, they will agree), and given your emotional retort, i'd say you are more involved than you let on. Either way, i look forward to seeing the tone of the article with the doctor who disagrees. Maybe we can review an actual hormonal expert this time, and not someone who stands to gain from all the media buzz. Maybe.

 


You presume to know why I put this piece up, or in what context it was intended. Media buzz had nothing to do with it. I saw all the questions in the other thread, and had some of my own, so I reached out to some physicians to get some expert opinions. My next piece is not with a hormonal expert. It's with a board certified orthapedic surgeon so I could pose questions to him about bone density, length of bones, etc.

For the record, he was the one who actually changed my mind about this whole topic and made me rethink my stance on it. I actually feel that much more testing and research needs to be done before transgender people compete in combat sports, despite the fact that there are a couple already competing. It's not because "Doh, he used to have a peener!" either. It's about having a complete study done with complete testing on skeletal structure, what the actual percentage is of the decrease in bone and muscle density,etc. Because there are so few professional athletes in the transgender community, I think current expert opinion is kind of limited. 


Thank you for your response, and i apologize if i was coming across as attacking you personally, or judging your trade. This debate obviously can cause a lot of flareups that boil over. I look forward to the next installment.

While I don't believe you had any motive to write a bias article, I think the takeaway is a valid one. You really need to put both sides in the same article for it to be a real story. If that meant taking another day to fully formulate the piece, it's still worth doing so. That's pretty basic journalism...and that's coming from a physician. That said, I appreciate the information you're providing. Thanks Phone Post
3/8/13 11:43 AM
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Crooklyn
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Crooklyn is a she 0_o ! (shows how ignorant I am to general knowledge)
 
 
 
My question: I read that a man has an easier time cutting weight than a woman (water weight I assume with a small % of fat weight). On the same tangent, I also read a man can cut a higher percentage of weight. Is this true.
 
 
 
IF the above statement is true, does a transgender (male to female) posses a possible measurable advantage in that regard (whether it be slight or significant). Do we know scientifically or is it an educated guess?

Testosterone aids men in cutting weight. Fallon doesn't produce it from anywhere other than her adrenal gland, just like a female. In addition to that, she took test blockers and is now on estrogen for the rest of her life. She carries much more fat and actually has to work at gaining muscle and keeping it. It is also physiologically harder for her to cut weight now.

3/8/13 11:45 AM
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The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.

You should interview endocrinologists not plastic surgeons. The physicians you interviewed are no more knowledgable about the effects of hormones on a person than your run of the mill ER doc. So their words hold absolutely no merit and you wasted an afternoon on a pointless interview. Phone Post

Really? These doctors know nothing you say? Well color me confused.

Your response was limited because you know I'm right. If you're an RN like you say you know I'm absolutely 100% right and you came back with that sorry ass response to throw people off the trail. Phone Post

I don't think you're right. There. Now what?

Haha you have absolutely nothing. You interviewed 2 plastic surgeons who do lipo and rhinoplasty(nose jobs) all day long on an endocrine topic. I called you on it and you have no argument for your wasted day. Next time do some research before you consult "experts". Phone Post
3/8/13 11:48 AM
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Crooklyn
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The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.

You should interview endocrinologists not plastic surgeons. The physicians you interviewed are no more knowledgable about the effects of hormones on a person than your run of the mill ER doc. So their words hold absolutely no merit and you wasted an afternoon on a pointless interview. Phone Post

Really? These doctors know nothing you say? Well color me confused.

Your response was limited because you know I'm right. If you're an RN like you say you know I'm absolutely 100% right and you came back with that sorry ass response to throw people off the trail. Phone Post

I don't think you're right. There. Now what?

Haha you have absolutely nothing. You interviewed 2 plastic surgeons who do lipo and rhinoplasty(nose jobs) all day long on an endocrine topic. I called you on it and you have no argument for your wasted day. Next time do some research before you consult "experts". Phone Post

Try reading my comments to Brandable. I don't bother replying to you that way because you're a hostile person. Lose the hostility and I won't give you empty answers.

3/8/13 11:49 AM
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Big Pookie
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I wonder if these doctors think a transgender who was born a woman can fight a man.
3/8/13 11:55 AM
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Well, it's awesome that just because people disagree with two Doctors who are going to be incredibly biased that they're getting argued with and having their intelligence called into question. Get an independent study or a few endocrinologists, you know the doctors who would have some authoritative information on the subject and be far more objective, and I might agree that he can fight women.

One of my friends is a psychiatrist, gets good money from a few pharma companies to do lectures about some of their medications in his free time. He only does these seminars to further his income and increase the number of people who come to see him to get medicated and further an agenda. Not saying these gender reassignment doctors are furthering an agenda, but I know firsthand that doctors will stretch things for their own benefit. Why would a gender reassignment doctor say in any way that "No, they're still men", that would absolutely hurt business for them because people go to these doctors to become women, not just look like them.

3/8/13 11:57 AM
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Do you really think that the reactions would be any different if OP did interview an endocrinologist?

Rational thought is lost on some people. Didn't somebody here write something like: "I don't care what science says, if it doesn't feel right, I don't believe it."

I'm still saying that if she can find female opponents, why not let them fight?

And Crooklyn gets accused of being emotionally involved. That makes me wonder about all those extremely negative responses? Seems to me that if you take your time to respond to this post with anger and an aggresive tone, you might be more emotionally involved than you think.
3/8/13 11:58 AM
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gregnog - Isn't the fact that the doctor is transgender kind of make this a bit weird listening to her opinion on the subject?

Maybe that's just me.
This. This is just another transgendered person justifying themselves being a complete "woman" by signifying that Fallon Fox is now a woman having completed the same gender reassignment that the doctor had. You can't change chromosomes and she will always be genetically a male. This has nothing to do with ones gender identity. Phone Post
3/8/13 11:59 AM
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I'm thinking of getting a dolphinplasty next week
3/8/13 11:59 AM
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UGCKIRTT_SonofJockstrap - 

Well, it's awesome that just because people disagree with two Doctors who are going to be incredibly biased that they're getting argued with and having their intelligence called into question. Get an independent study or a few endocrinologists, you know the doctors who would have some authoritative information on the subject and be far more objective, and I might agree that he can fight women.

One of my friends is a psychiatrist, gets good money from a few pharma companies to do lectures about some of their medications in his free time. He only does these seminars to further his income and increase the number of people who come to see him to get medicated and further an agenda. Not saying these gender reassignment doctors are furthering an agenda, but I know firsthand that doctors will stretch things for their own benefit. Why would a gender reassignment doctor say in any way that "No, they're still men", that would absolutely hurt business for them because people go to these doctors to become women, not just look like them.


What a bizarre reply. I don't see why they would necessarily lie. They have nothing to gain by taking a stance here, at least nothing significant.
3/8/13 12:01 PM
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toolverine
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torquemada - 
Nitecrawler - Hillary Williams:

I competed against her in 2010 and nothing, behavior, strength, etc. would have clued me into her being anything other than biologically female. Not to mention the doctors showing her levels are good. Gender and sexual identity are so much more complicated than the scientifically illiterate like to accept, and if she's happy this way while phenotypically female (including hormone levels), well I wish her the best.


I still think it's weird to have you penis sliced like a banana and shoved up into your body.

I guess I am among the masses that are scientifically illiterate.

How do you feel about a ring of skin around your donger being cut off for God?

3/8/13 12:01 PM
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Crooklyn
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Butter, 'cuz I'm on a roll!
XIII - Do you really think that the reactions would be any different if OP did interview an endocrinologist?

Rational thought is lost on some people. Didn't somebody here write something like: "I don't care what science says, if it doesn't feel right, I don't believe it."

I'm still saying that if she can find female opponents, why not let them fight?

And Crooklyn gets accused of being emotionally involved. That makes me wonder about all those extremely negative responses? Seems to me that if you take your time to respond to this post with anger and an aggresive tone, you might be more emotionally involved than you think.

Didn't you know that if you dare to be open minded about the possibilities for either side, pro or con, you are biased? Come on man!

3/8/13 12:02 PM
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JSF1984
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Crooklyn -
JSF1984 - 
Crooklyn -
JSF1984 - 
Crooklyn -
JSF1984 - 
Crooklyn -
Brandable - 
Crooklyn - 
Brandable - 
Crooklyn - 

The point of that picture is that Fallon's opponent is a naturally born female. For all of you saying Fallon caries a muscle mass or physical advantage, despite what medical professionals went on record with, just take a good look at that pic, or any pic of a current 135-145 pound female fighter. For the record, Fallon is the same height as Ronda Rousey and fights at 145, the same weight Ronda used to fight at.


First of all, one medical professional - who is also transgender, said that. Not exactly the pillar of credibility. These people are so confused in life they want to change who theyre naturally born as. That thought alone should make you realize theyre prone to irrational thoughts. Combine that with the fact that they know this is big news, and he gets to have his name out in the media, and hopefully you can see why 'the medical professionals who went on record' did what they did.

Secondly, you cant judge everything by height/weight. That is a silly, silly statement. There's 30+ years of grwoth as a man. If you really think that all gets reveresed with a few months of estrogen pills, you're sorely mistaken.


Actually, if you bothered reading, I interviewed TWO, and they both commented the same. There's NOT 30+ years growth as a man. Fallon underwent hormone therapy for FOUR years PRIOR to her SRS 7 years ago.


Completely miss my post about Fallon getting caught and busted, and forced to come out before someone outed him? Selective journalism at it's finest.


Selective journalism? The whole point of THIS piece was to get expert opinion from the surgeons that know the most about this procedure and about transgender people. It was to cover JUST that topic. It states that. I will be featuring another physician in my next piece who DISAGREES with Fallon being allowed to fight, so take your selective buillshit and place it somewhere the sun doesn't dare put it's rays upon.

You should interview endocrinologists not plastic surgeons. The physicians you interviewed are no more knowledgable about the effects of hormones on a person than your run of the mill ER doc. So their words hold absolutely no merit and you wasted an afternoon on a pointless interview. Phone Post

Really? These doctors know nothing you say? Well color me confused.

Your response was limited because you know I'm right. If you're an RN like you say you know I'm absolutely 100% right and you came back with that sorry ass response to throw people off the trail. Phone Post

I don't think you're right. There. Now what?

Haha you have absolutely nothing. You interviewed 2 plastic surgeons who do lipo and rhinoplasty(nose jobs) all day long on an endocrine topic. I called you on it and you have no argument for your wasted day. Next time do some research before you consult "experts". Phone Post

Try reading my comments to Brandable. I don't bother replying to you that way because you're a hostile person. Lose the hostility and I won't give you empty answers.

I'm not hostile. I don't know you I'm sure you're probably a really nice person. I just think you presented the public a poor article by interviewing surgeons when you clearly should have been interviewing endocrinologists. You should take responsibility for presenting something that has no merit. The public is very impressionable and they think that these surgeons you interviewed are experts. Just own up to your mistake like a responsible journalist would. Phone Post
3/8/13 12:04 PM
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Letibleu
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Crooklyn - 
Letibleu - 

 

Crooklyn is a she 0_o ! (shows how ignorant I am to general knowledge)
 
 
 
My question: I read that a man has an easier time cutting weight than a woman (water weight I assume with a small % of fat weight). On the same tangent, I also read a man can cut a higher percentage of weight. Is this true.
 
 
 
IF the above statement is true, does a transgender (male to female) posses a possible measurable advantage in that regard (whether it be slight or significant). Do we know scientifically or is it an educated guess?

Testosterone aids men in cutting weight. Fallon doesn't produce it from anywhere other than her adrenal gland, just like a female. In addition to that, she took test blockers and is now on estrogen for the rest of her life. She carries much more fat and actually has to work at gaining muscle and keeping it. It is also physiologically harder for her to cut weight now.


My uneducated ass read as much as it could way beyond what this forum offers on the subjects and I am still skeptical.

Does she retain all her male attributes in function to her muscular, skeletal and everything else as a male counterpart (after several years of continual hormonal therapy). Definitive No.

Does she lose it all completely to the level a female would have since birth or does she still maintain a certain advantage. Possibly.

From everything I have read, she loses many male attributes, but I cannot mater of factly as a layman say she loses 100% of any advantage she would have once had. I don't think this debate will ever finish with a clear answer.
3/8/13 12:08 PM
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ShawnTheBadger
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Johnzandt - Perfect example of how the science should lead the opinion. I, myself, though she would have a distinct physical advantage, but after reading the experts testimony I now completely agree with Miss Fallon and think she should be allowed to compete in WMMA. Cheers, great read.

Agreed that science should lead opinion, except you are getting a bit ahead of yourself sir.

We need Crooklyn's Part II to this article. With the other Doc or Doc's plural giving us the "con" side. Dropping their esteemed knowledge.

IF the doctors somehow reach a "consensus" that it is safe for transgendered athletes to compete in combat sports, then let them bang (bro). Pretty big "IF" and more educated-opinions (stress educated) are necessary.

AFTER being scientifically evaluated, further studies done, and when (if) declared "fully safe, no advantage or disadvantage" by the consensus Docs (committee? studies? research group?) then transgendered athletes should be allowed to compete. And these studies must be done on combat-sport athletes.

The IOC would have a very keen interest in this continued research as they currently allow qualified transgender athletes to compete in Judo (for sure), TKD, wrestling, and boxing (for sure). Assuming on my part that the Olympics has all those categories for women. Even if you just combine Judo with boxing, you have a good approximation of MMA.

Personally I hope it works out in favor of transgendered athletes competing fairly. Key word: fairly. As long as that opinion is the result of further study/consensus agreement by the Docs, live and let live.









Good work Crooklyn! Thanks for bringing the facts and science to the table of discussion.

3/8/13 12:10 PM
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slickmma
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Would her test levels go up if she stopped taking the test blockers and estrogen?

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