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UnderGround Forums >> TOP SEX REASSIGNMENT DOCS WEIGH IN ON FALLON FOX


3/8/13 2:33 PM
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PINKsinglet
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RyannVonDoom - 
Nitecrawler - Hillary Williams:

I competed against her in 2010 and nothing, behavior, strength, etc. would have clued me into her being anything other than biologically female. Not to mention the doctors showing her levels are good. Gender and sexual identity are so much more complicated than the scientifically illiterate like to accept, and if she's happy this way while phenotypically female (including hormone levels), well I wish her the best.

That's funny because others who have competed against her said they figured she was on somethingor was a trans. Phone Post

Keep in mind, when Hillary is competing she is a high level Alpha Female.  She is stronger than most guys her weight.  I wouldnt be shocked if Hillary was stronger than Fallon as a male or female.  Hillary was like all state in every sport she played in high school and when she was competing hard she was doing BJJ every day and strength and condidtioning too.  

 

So as far as Hillary's opinion of the girl not being too strong, it is a very skewed opinion from a really fucking strong girl. 

3/8/13 2:41 PM
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BrandCarey
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I am very interested in seeing Crooklyn's second part to this story, and being able to read the first in it's entirety ;).

This one should bring a lot of eyes to you Crook.
3/8/13 2:52 PM
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UGCTT_EnderTL
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HexRei - Actually doctors often speak in these terms because things are very rarely 100% when talking about biology, they tend to fall in a probabilistic range. When I broke my knee my doctor told me that "most patients with this type of injury gain back most or all strength with the right rehab". He didn't speak in absolute terms, why would he, he's not psychic.

In your case it makes sense. You may or may not gain back all of the strength in your knee, the doctor is making no promises on what you can or can't do in the future with your knee. The doctor is saying they don't know what the future holds.

If a doctor is using the same terminology in the case of whether or not a MTF transgender is on the same level as a natural female, it's the same thing.. uncertainty, and uncertainty in this topic is not comforting IMO.

 

 

3/8/13 3:04 PM
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UGSlapshot
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So hay lets see how accurate this BS is.

Are you trying to tell me that Cyborg would be able to compete with men, all she needs to do is get a sex change and testosterone?

Because she would get wrecked. Phone Post
3/8/13 3:10 PM
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OG 12er
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The real question is: would you hit it. Phone Post
3/8/13 3:20 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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1. Get a sex change
2. Start training full time and get to 135lbs
3. Join the UFC and beat Rousey
4.?????
5. Profit Phone Post
3/8/13 3:25 PM
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Zaph
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Odinson -
TheOne - Even though the science says its probably ok, inside it still feels wrong.

Science the art of making people believe shit they know in their heart is wrong.
No. Just no. Phone Post
3/8/13 3:27 PM
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yomamafool
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UGSlapshot -  So hay lets see how accurate this BS is.

Are you trying to tell me that Cyborg would be able to compete with men, all she needs to do is get a sex change and testosterone?

Because she would get wrecked. Phone Post

all she needs is the operation at this point.. and yeah she would get wrecked
3/8/13 3:29 PM
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yomamafool
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will be very interesting to see a transgender win a world title.

i am sure noone will think it unfair that a dude infiltrated the female ranks and won the womens title.
3/8/13 3:41 PM
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okiebug
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What the hell kinda world are we living in?
3/8/13 4:02 PM
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,DBK,
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I don't understand why people think that repeatedly posting that "comparison" picture is some sort of evidence either way. They're obviously taken at different angles and not side by side or comparable.

I also think that this piece is pretty inherently silly and conflict of interesty, but am generally a fan of the work Crooklyn does and as such will refrain from talking any shiznit.
3/8/13 4:05 PM
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Crooklyn
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Butter, 'cuz I'm on a roll!
,DBK, - I don't understand why people think that repeatedly posting that "comparison" picture is some sort of evidence either way. They're obviously taken at different angles and not side by side or comparable.

I also think that this piece is pretty inherently silly and conflict of interesty, but am generally a fan of the work Crooklyn does and as such will refrain from talking any shiznit.

My point in posting that was for the people saying how "manly" Fallon looked. Her opponent, a naturally born female looks manlier, imo.

Thanks for the kind words.

3/8/13 4:20 PM
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6ULDV8
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They're female fighters.  Of course they're tough and look tough.

 

Saying this dude doesn't absolutely dwarf the women he's about to beat the shit out of is really not a valid argument to let him do it.

 

This whole thing is like some kind of sick, twisted hypothetical that would never really happen in real life, but you want to troll someone with it and make them think it's valid because the very idea is oh so over the top ridiculous.

 

For the time being, I hope that's what we're doing.  We're just pontificating about something so over the top crazy it couldn't really happen in real life.

 

If not then fuck it.  Let this dude beat the shit out of chicks without going to jail, because that's what the people really want to see in the name of MMA and transgender equality and righteousness.

 

If that is the case, I'm done with everything.  It's been a good run but let's close the books and go out like the dinosaurs did.

 

Where you at meteors?

3/8/13 4:22 PM
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Aaron Becker
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6ULDV8 - 

They're female fighters.  Of course they're tough and look tough.

 

Saying this dude doesn't absolutely dwarf the women he's about to beat the shit out of is really not a valid argument to let him do it.

 

This whole thing is like some kind of sick, twisted hypothetical that would never really happen in real life, but you want to troll someone with it and make them think it's valid because the very idea is oh so over the top ridiculous.

 

For the time being, I hope that's what we're doing.  We're just pontificating about something so over the top crazy it couldn't really happen in real life.

 

If not then fuck it.  Let this dude beat the shit out of chicks without going to jail, because that's what the people really want to see in the name of MMA and transgender equality and righteousness.

 

If that is the case, I'm done with everything.  It's been a good run but let's close the books and go out like the dinosaurs did.

 

Where you at meteors?


one of them is a female fighter
3/8/13 4:23 PM
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show no mercy
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i think rio heros used to put fights like these on
3/8/13 4:36 PM
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Zaph
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lol @ the experts here who think they know more than surgeons. Phone Post
3/8/13 5:07 PM
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DojoJay
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So... Let me get this straight... We're consulting a transgendered surgeon on this matter?

Gotcha.

3/8/13 5:09 PM
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cheesesteak
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these surgeons are biased though...These guys don't want there current and potential clients to think the procedures they perform will make you only "somewhat" feminine.
3/8/13 5:32 PM
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ortman166
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Aaron Becker - biased doctors will be biased towards their kind of patients. It's good for business
This who the duck cares what another tranny freak thinks about this. If this faggot GUY ever makes it to the ufc level against girls that's the day I'm done with this sport. Phone Post
3/8/13 5:43 PM
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Thacommish
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"On a purely physiological level, it would appear that Fallon doesn't carry a significant advantage into her fights, however, further investigation and testing may still be warranted "

Shotty journalism ending with this line, neither doctor spoke directly to Fallons physiology nor could they because they didnt examine her, they are merely speaking on behalf of their experience with other transgenders. She has yet to provide and yet to be required to undergo the testing necessary to see where she stands physiologically. And by further investigation and testing wtf does that mean? there has been NO testing at all, and thats the main problem.
3/8/13 6:01 PM
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Matt Perry
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Aaron Becker - we could all go out and knock girls out if we turn our dicks inside out
Hahaha! Exactly! Get real ppl. Nobody is trying to be a bigot but we aren't trying to be clueless idiots either! Phone Post
3/8/13 6:11 PM
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Aiderbooze
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I think this was a good interview and all, and obviously I know the purpose was not to "close the book" on the subject, but I don't like when an answer to a question is "probably", and there were a few of those.

We have heard about how there would probably not be any significant advantage if this and that and this (on hormones, length of time, not producing test., etc, etc) but I'd like to hear a few "what ifs" going the other way. For example, is there anything a person going through SRS could do (or not do) to give themselves an advantage and would it be easy to test for?
3/8/13 6:35 PM
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UGSlapshot
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Zaph - lol @ the experts here who think they know more than surgeons. Phone Post
LoL at the morons that think surgeons know everything, doesn't even have to be in there area of expertise...whatever.

Pseudoscience bullshit for the win eh? Phone Post
3/8/13 6:37 PM
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Zaph
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UGSlapshot -
Zaph - lol @ the experts here who think they know more than surgeons. Phone Post
LoL at the morons that think surgeons know everything, doesn't even have to be in there area of expertise...whatever.

Pseudoscience bullshit for the win eh? Phone Post
They might not know everything, but they surely know more than you.

Also... that word doesn't mean what you think it means. Phone Post
3/8/13 7:32 PM
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Chiron
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Asking a surgeon who is transgender herself? How about asking a surgeon who is an expert on the subject who isn't transgender so maybe they'd have less of a reason to be biased in her favor.

I still don't think she should be able to compete. They're assuming the muscle/bone density will normalize to that of a regular female. That's not really good enough. Neither is the different in visual perception that men also tend to be better in.

Just because you have the right to get a sex change, doesn't mean you should have the right to do absolutely everything as if you were never a member of the opposite sex.

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