UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> TOP SEX REASSIGNMENT DOCS WEIGH IN ON FALLON FOX


3/8/13 10:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CindyO
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/10/06
Posts: 21780
Crooklyn - 

Fallon's opponent from her last fight:

 


I'm speechless=)

"2nd Transgender Female Fighter Discovered"

-UG News:)

 

*runs*

 

Cindy

3/8/13 11:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Shanks
45 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/19/05
Posts: 1117
I pose this query in good faith:

Men typically have larger hands and feet than a woman of similar height and weight.

Given that the hands and feet are the most common parts of the body used to cause damage in mma, would a transgendered fighter have a natural advantage based on body dimensons alone, excluding any hormonal/muscle density/bone density comparisons? Phone Post
3/9/13 12:06 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
no-gi_JAMES420
47 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/5/11
Posts: 298
What a fuckin train wreck this situation is.

Can't believe so many people are defending this person participating in FEMALE FIST FIGHTS.

She should have to jump through 1000 hoops and go through a ton of different tests before she can even be CONSIDERED for a license.

"A couple doctors said it's probably ok, lets just let her fight girls."

??????????????

NO!!!!!!!!! THE FUCK???????
3/9/13 12:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/09/13 12:10 AM
Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12432
no-gi_JAMES420 - What a fuckin train wreck this situation is.

Can't believe so many people are defending this person participating in FEMALE FIST FIGHTS.

She should have to jump through 1000 hoops and go through a ton of different tests before she can even be CONSIDERED for a license.

"A couple doctors said it's probably ok, lets just let her fight girls."

??????????????

NO!!!!!!!!! THE FUCK???????

 

 Yeah I can't believe people are basing their support on "Probablys and Fairly"

 

 

This is a fiasco

3/9/13 12:24 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HERTSWENIP
55 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6463
During adolescence, undifferentiated satellite cells (pleuripotent) permanently differentiate into full blown muscle cells; this process is irreversible. Even if you experience siginificant atrophy- your muscle cell # is constant.

In other words, Fallon Fox will carry arouind more muscle cells than someone who was born a female and never spiked her androgen levels.

What does this mean? She (he) will have have a much higher genetic "setpoint" for carrying muscle mass, will have a much easier time putting on muscle mass, and won't atrophy as easily as people who have fewer muscle cells (women) regardless of hormone manipulation.

Is this fair? WEight classes help, I mean not all men are born with equal # of muscle cells but no one complains; not everyone can be Arnold or Ronnie, Jordan or Jordan or Jones, etc.

Need more time to think.

3/9/13 2:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
stonepony
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/1/11
Posts: 4360
Aaron Becker - biased doctors will be biased towards their kind of patients. It's good for business

In places like Berkley "doctors" are prescribing "gender reassignment therapy" to little kids. And I mean 10 years old, and younger.

A parent goes in and says "doctor! my son plays with his sister's dolls! can you prescribe me estrogen pills to inhibit his natural puberty process? I want him to have boobs and I want to stunt his growth". And, they get a prescription for hormone treatments, because the kid has "gender dysphoria". The only reason they don't do the actual sex-change operation that young, is because it's not legal. So they mutate them with drugs in order to have them prepped for surgery on their 18th birthday.

The "doctor" gets paid, and the impressionable kid gets to grow up and discover that his/her parents were insane and ruined his/her life.
3/9/13 4:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
XIII
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/09/13 4:40 AM
Member Since: 2/8/13
Posts: 18
I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?
3/9/13 4:44 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12449
XIII - I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?

Yeah most people do, this is a forum for our favorite sport for most of us, and those women are some people's wives, sisters, friends etc.

 

I wouldn't want my wife fighting some potentially cheating screwball

3/9/13 4:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
XIII
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/8/13
Posts: 19
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?

Yeah most people do, this is a forum for our favorite sport for most of us, and those women are some people's wives, sisters, friends etc.

 

I wouldn't want my wife fighting some potentially cheating screwball


You mean that most people are outraged, most people read Justin's thread or most people put things in perspective? Didn't quite get that.

But it's not like your wife is going to be forced to fight this person, is it? Besides that fact that the UG suddenly really cares about the purity of women's MMA, I still wonder why people get so emotional about 1 woman (let's call her that instead of screwball for the sake of argument) wants to fight MMA.

Did you read Justin's thread? How outraged were you after reading that? Honest question. Not trying to get the moral highground here just to be right or something.
3/9/13 5:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/09/13 5:06 AM
Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12450
XIII - 
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?

Yeah most people do, this is a forum for our favorite sport for most of us, and those women are some people's wives, sisters, friends etc.

 

I wouldn't want my wife fighting some potentially cheating screwball


You mean that most people are outraged, most people read Justin's thread or most people put things in perspective? Didn't quite get that.

But it's not like your wife is going to be forced to fight this person, is it? Besides that fact that the UG suddenly really cares about the purity of women's MMA, I still wonder why people get so emotional about 1 woman (let's call her that instead of screwball for the sake of argument) wants to fight MMA.

Did you read Justin's thread? How outraged were you after reading that? Honest question. Not trying to get the moral highground here just to be right or something.

 

Yeah I mean't that most reasonable people do get more outraged at the problems in the Congo but this issue is way more relevent to opinions and or reach of people on the board. Justin in an outstanding human being for doing what he does.

 

 

I've protested and organized protests for affordable housing, equal rights, and social justice so trust me I do get more outraged about the Congo situation but this is more accessible in terms of a local-ish issue. I did read Justin's threads all of them.

My point on Fox Fallon is that the issue has been corrupted, a fighter can say no yes, and they perhaps face blackballing if a commission or promoter is sensitive to PC pressure. Like I've said before Fox Fallon is jumping the queue of reasoanble things a transgendered person should expect to achieve. They just managed to get some acceptance in beauty competitions and non-combat sports.

The argumentation is 10% about the issues of gender advantage and science and 90% about LGBT rights which is typical of the world now, and this issue has to be slowed down and scrutinized. SHe was outed on Monday and has approval already for her next fight. Something is not right here.

3/9/13 5:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/09/13 5:18 AM
Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12451

I mean expect to achieve at this point in scientific advancement and proof. It is up to her her to prove beyond a  doubt, the burden is on her and she acts and talks like it is unreasonable to question her right, that she is entitled to fight because equal rights are advancing.

By people focusig on rights they are trying to put the burden of proof on the naysayers and that becomes the impossible situation in trying to prove a negative. She does not sound interested in letting scientific scrutiny decide her fate she seems like if independant experts said no there are doubts she would not accept the decision anyways.

3/9/13 5:26 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
XIII
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/8/13
Posts: 20
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - 
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?

Yeah most people do, this is a forum for our favorite sport for most of us, and those women are some people's wives, sisters, friends etc.

 

I wouldn't want my wife fighting some potentially cheating screwball


You mean that most people are outraged, most people read Justin's thread or most people put things in perspective? Didn't quite get that.

But it's not like your wife is going to be forced to fight this person, is it? Besides that fact that the UG suddenly really cares about the purity of women's MMA, I still wonder why people get so emotional about 1 woman (let's call her that instead of screwball for the sake of argument) wants to fight MMA.

Did you read Justin's thread? How outraged were you after reading that? Honest question. Not trying to get the moral highground here just to be right or something.

 

Yeah I mean't that most reasonable people do get more outraged at the problems in the Congo but this issue is way more relevent to opinions and or reach of people on the board. Justin in an outstanding human being for doing what he does.

 

 

I've protested and organized protests for affordable housing, equal rights, and social justice so trust me I do get more outraged about the Congo situation but this is more accessible in terms of a local-ish issue. I did read Justin's threads all of them.

My point on Fox Fallon is that the issue has been corrupted, a fighter can say no yes, and they perhaps face blackballing if a commission or promoter is sensitive to PC pressure. Like I've said before Fox Fallon is jumping the queue of reasoanble things a transgendered person should expect to achieve. They just managed to get some acceptance in beauty competitions and non-combat sports.

The argumentation is 10% about the issues of gender advantage and science and 90% about LGBT rights which is typical of the world now, and this issue has to be slowed down and scrutinized. SHe was outed on Monday and has approval already for her next fight. Something is not right here.


Now that's a better response than: "It's a dude who cut his dick off. PERIOD."

I have no idea what a transgender person should expect to achieve, reasonable or not. New territory for Western society it seems.

If I understand you correctly, it's more about the fact that people feel that these LGBT rights are being pushed down their throats (pun intended)? So they were already irked because of LGBT rights being more prevalent in the media in recent years before it hit their favorite sport?

And that was the proverbial drop, so to speak?

I still don't understand this sort of fear/apprehension about this LGBT thing, but I understand that you might get fed up of the media attention this issue is getting.

Thank you for trying to explain it a bit.

3/9/13 5:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
XIII
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/8/13
Posts: 21
ChaosOverkill - 

I mean expect to achieve at this point in scientific advancement and proof. It is up to her her to prove beyond a  doubt, the burden is on her and she acts and talks like it is unreasonable to question her right, that she is entitled to fight because equal rights are advancing.

By people focusig on rights they are trying to put the burden of proof on the naysayers and that becomes the impossible situation in trying to prove a negative. She does not sound interested in letting scientific scrutiny decide her fate she seems like if independant experts said no there are doubts she would not accept the decision anyways.


She definitely handled this poorly and made a couple of serious mistakes. That's why I'm treating it more like an academic question and not so much about Fox in particular.

I'm not a big fan of people who say they deserve things, whether they are gay, straight, blue of orange. But I still want to explore the pro's and cons of the argument.

Thanks again.

3/9/13 5:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/09/13 5:37 AM
Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12452
XIII - 
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - 
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?

Yeah most people do, this is a forum for our favorite sport for most of us, and those women are some people's wives, sisters, friends etc.

 

I wouldn't want my wife fighting some potentially cheating screwball


You mean that most people are outraged, most people read Justin's thread or most people put things in perspective? Didn't quite get that.

But it's not like your wife is going to be forced to fight this person, is it? Besides that fact that the UG suddenly really cares about the purity of women's MMA, I still wonder why people get so emotional about 1 woman (let's call her that instead of screwball for the sake of argument) wants to fight MMA.

Did you read Justin's thread? How outraged were you after reading that? Honest question. Not trying to get the moral highground here just to be right or something.

 

Yeah I mean't that most reasonable people do get more outraged at the problems in the Congo but this issue is way more relevent to opinions and or reach of people on the board. Justin in an outstanding human being for doing what he does.

 

 

I've protested and organized protests for affordable housing, equal rights, and social justice so trust me I do get more outraged about the Congo situation but this is more accessible in terms of a local-ish issue. I did read Justin's threads all of them.

My point on Fox Fallon is that the issue has been corrupted, a fighter can say no yes, and they perhaps face blackballing if a commission or promoter is sensitive to PC pressure. Like I've said before Fox Fallon is jumping the queue of reasoanble things a transgendered person should expect to achieve. They just managed to get some acceptance in beauty competitions and non-combat sports.

The argumentation is 10% about the issues of gender advantage and science and 90% about LGBT rights which is typical of the world now, and this issue has to be slowed down and scrutinized. SHe was outed on Monday and has approval already for her next fight. Something is not right here.


Now that's a better response than: "It's a dude who cut his dick off. PERIOD."

I have no idea what a transgender person should expect to achieve, reasonable or not. New territory for Western society it seems.

If I understand you correctly, it's more about the fact that people feel that these LGBT rights are being pushed down their throats (pun intended)? So they were already irked because of LGBT rights being more prevalent in the media in recent years before it hit their favorite sport?

And that was the proverbial drop, so to speak?

I still don't understand this sort of fear/apprehension about this LGBT thing, but I understand that you might get fed up of the media attention this issue is getting.

Thank you for trying to explain it a bit.
 

 

Its not about LGBT going too far, it's about two types of LGBT issues. Those that don't affect anyone, ie: gay people or transgendered working in the vast majority of jobs, gay marriage, even gay fighters, and this new side of things where it potentially does affect the job and a lot of her support either stating "Here's some person who does this stuff and gains from it saying a bunch of borderline pseudo-science" or "It's an LGBT person, they are brave they should be able to do anything, demanding proof is being a h8r".

 

 

If she genuinely deserves and should be able to fight no one on either side of the debate should debate independant scrutiny, but it seems that's not even being brought up by decision makers involved in this at this point, and that is frustrating because a lot of us are big supporters of equal rights and we feel this is making a mockery of the issue of tolerance and essentially putting the cart before the horse.

3/9/13 5:37 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12453
XIII - 
ChaosOverkill - 

I mean expect to achieve at this point in scientific advancement and proof. It is up to her her to prove beyond a  doubt, the burden is on her and she acts and talks like it is unreasonable to question her right, that she is entitled to fight because equal rights are advancing.

By people focusig on rights they are trying to put the burden of proof on the naysayers and that becomes the impossible situation in trying to prove a negative. She does not sound interested in letting scientific scrutiny decide her fate she seems like if independant experts said no there are doubts she would not accept the decision anyways.


She definitely handled this poorly and made a couple of serious mistakes. That's why I'm treating it more like an academic question and not so much about Fox in particular.

I'm not a big fan of people who say they deserve things, whether they are gay, straight, blue of orange. But I still want to explore the pro's and cons of the argument.

Thanks again.


No worries man, I'm a person that doesn't consider being wrong or proven wrong deciding my manhood so I generally keep an open mind about most things, I'm waiting for the independant proof in this case so I can be able to be happy and say have at it if you're good enough.

3/9/13 5:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
XIII
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/8/13
Posts: 22
This little conversation did get me voted down though. Ah, the price we pay for progress.
3/9/13 6:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/09/13 6:34 AM
Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12454

The argument corruption reminds of PETA arguing that all hunting is immoral when urban planning and wildlife experts can prove through monitoring certain species that population control is in the end is more humane because it avoids having them get hit by cars all the time or dying of starvation and PETA just chirps over and over that killing animals is wrong.

There is an amended argument at this point for reasonable animal rights people. Killing animals for fun can be argued as wrong but hunting for population control is beneficial and hunters can get what they want adhering to those times of the year and number of kills to help the whole situation for the animals and people. Argument solved through knowledge and science but do people accept the experts? No they go right back to chirping because losing 1 line of their argument gives their ego a sad.

This is a cliche of partisan life in the 21st century, it's easier to pick a side and scream than to try and bring reason into the debate and find a real solution through hard work because of the fact, IT TAKES HARD WORK!

3/9/13 7:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tombmatter
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/31/09
Posts: 351
Why not if TRT is allowed too. Men supposedly cant compete with low test, but she gets practically no test and eats estrogen on top of that.

UFC should dump Rhonda and take her as their WMMA star, would make even bigger impact on getting sanctioned in New York.
3/9/13 7:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
wreckker
72 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11210
If your really want to fight....
Fight men!!!!

Fighting is about challenging yourself. Im not sold she is female equivalent in strength or physical advantage Phone Post
3/9/13 7:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
no-gi_JAMES420
47 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/5/11
Posts: 299
If all it takes is a few years of hormones and having your genitals swapped out, then let's see a female-to-male transgender fight some men and see how that turns out.

People defending this person need to stop being so worried about being PC.

THERE'S A REASON WOMEN HAVE SEPARATE SPORTS LEAGUES AND DO NOT COMPETE AGAINST MEN!!!!!!!

And here is the reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O63KAKFPC7g
3/9/13 4:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
youarewhatiswrong
14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/23/12
Posts: 2164
XIII - 
ChaosOverkill - 
XIII - I really can't understand why this is such a big deal and people are getting so outraged about this. There are things in this life that are a lot worse than some transgender who wants to fight MMA. I get it if you are an insecure teenager but some of you are grown men. WTF!

Can you outraged people read Justin The Viking's post about his work in Congo and see if you have a similar outrage after reading that? Just curious.

Let's try to put things in perspective, can we?

Yeah most people do, this is a forum for our favorite sport for most of us, and those women are some people's wives, sisters, friends etc.

 

I wouldn't want my wife fighting some potentially cheating screwball


You mean that most people are outraged, most people read Justin's thread or most people put things in perspective? Didn't quite get that.

But it's not like your wife is going to be forced to fight this person, is it? Besides that fact that the UG suddenly really cares about the purity of women's MMA, I still wonder why people get so emotional about 1 woman (let's call her that instead of screwball for the sake of argument) wants to fight MMA.

Did you read Justin's thread? How outraged were you after reading that? Honest question. Not trying to get the moral highground here just to be right or something.

You dismiss the argument that the people here are connected to the women who would be forced to fight this guy/girl by basically saying "well that probably wouldn't happen," then tell me I should go read a thread about some guy visiting the Congo. I can assure you, I am far more removed from those people in the Congo than I am from these female fighters.
3/9/13 4:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Crooklyn
699 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/11/07
Posts: 42485
BloodyElbow.com, Featured Writer

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts_updsub&forum=1&thread=2144453&page=1&pc=16

3/9/13 4:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Randall Flagg
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/15/12
Posts: 7
this is too strange for me, i don't really understand exactly how it would work.

In order for people like this to be licensed, are they required to cut their penises off?, or could they just take hormones to lower their testosterone levels?, are boobs necessary?, how much should they look like women?, are they required to be feminine?

If you are a woman taking testosterone can you be licensed to fight men?, are you expected to replace your vagina with a penis and remove your breasts?, is that even possible?, would that be treated the same way?

if this person stops taking hormones and applies for testosterone replacement therapy can he fight men, without a penis and with boobs?
3/9/13 5:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
523 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 12455
Crooklyn - 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts_updsub&forum=1&thread=2144453&page=1&pc=16


Thanks voted up

3/9/13 5:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
youarewhatiswrong
14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/23/12
Posts: 2165
Randall Flagg - this is too strange for me, i don't really understand exactly how it would work.

In order for people like this to be licensed, are they required to cut their penises off?, or could they just take hormones to lower their testosterone levels?, are boobs necessary?, how much should they look like women?, are they required to be feminine?

If you are a woman taking testosterone can you be licensed to fight men?, are you expected to replace your vagina with a penis and remove your breasts?, is that even possible?, would that be treated the same way?

if this person stops taking hormones and applies for testosterone replacement therapy can he fight men, without a penis and with boobs?

The Man in Black asks legitimate questions that should be addressed.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.