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UnderGround Forums >> So What's Up with Nick's Mgmt?


3/9/13 8:50 PM
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Cask Strength
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I suspect -- and what the fuck do I know, really -- that Diaz is a pretty straight forward guy. He's an amazing talent but he's not going to break or easily bend when it comes to all of the collateral stuff that comes with running a business and building a "brand."

In fact, I am sure by now he's had some conversation with someone where they discussed the "Nick Diaz Brand" and he left that meeting not understanding or wanting to understand what the fuck they were talking about. He sees this career as beginning and ending with fighting. If you've got that level of tunnel vision in life, best thing for you is to find someone you can trust to manage your money.
3/9/13 9:34 PM
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D241
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WoodenPupa - 
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Wasa-B -
GayGuardMooseSaucy -  As I said in another thread, Cesar is an awful manager Phone Post

Gil seems to have his head on straight though, knows what he wants, knows how to market himself, and is getting his shot now after successful Pride, SF, etc runs.

Jake too seems to be doing alright, why the chaos with Nick?
I believe Gilbert and Jake are more intelligent than Nick. You don't have to have an MBA to under business but Diaz is a HS dropout. It was posted on here that Diaz literally turns over his earnings to Cesar and is given an allowance. Phone Post

Holy shit. Well, that explains a lot...

Who reported it, and even if that's true how would that make Cesar an awful manager?

3/9/13 10:22 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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D241 - 
WoodenPupa - 
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Wasa-B -
GayGuardMooseSaucy -  As I said in another thread, Cesar is an awful manager Phone Post

Gil seems to have his head on straight though, knows what he wants, knows how to market himself, and is getting his shot now after successful Pride, SF, etc runs.

Jake too seems to be doing alright, why the chaos with Nick?
I believe Gilbert and Jake are more intelligent than Nick. You don't have to have an MBA to under business but Diaz is a HS dropout. It was posted on here that Diaz literally turns over his earnings to Cesar and is given an allowance. Phone Post

Holy shit. Well, that explains a lot...

Who reported it, and even if that's true how would that make Cesar an awful manager?


http://www.MixedMartialArts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2143832

 

Cesar is an awful manager on many levels even besides the allowance thing which is horrible. 

3/9/13 10:24 PM
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Koga
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Nick has gotten a title shot he did not earn despite being one of the most difficult fighters the UFC has to deal with. Maybe his management is doing something right. - Koga!
3/9/13 10:49 PM
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Mr Bungle
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GreatCornholio - IMHO it is premature to shortchange Nick's intelligence. Similarly it is wrong to shortchange Cesar's managing.

Without importing talent, look at how many title fights Cesar has gotten his guys. Nick is on his second. Nate. Gilbert. Jake. Going old school you have Dave Terrell and Gil Castillo. He gets his guys the big name fights. You may not like what he says, but he keeps their names out there, and in the big name fights.

More people need to listen to people like you.

More people like you need to be heard by the people who ask stupid questions.

Voted up, good sir...
3/9/13 11:00 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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GreatCornholio - IMHO it is premature to shortchange Nick's intelligence. Similarly it is wrong to shortchange Cesar's managing.

Without importing talent, look at how many title fights Cesar has gotten his guys. Nick is on his second. Nate. Gilbert. Jake. Going old school you have Dave Terrell and Gil Castillo. He gets his guys the big name fights. You may not like what he says, but he keeps their names out there, and in the big name fights.

Cesar didn't "get" his fighters their title shots, all of them are very talented and earned them. Cesar is a great trainer but definitley shouldn't be their mouthpiece, manager, and finanical advisor. This is the same guy who went on twitter and asked fans to beg to Dana to get Nick upgraded to business class. 

3/9/13 11:02 PM
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Mr Bungle
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And just so people know, if you truly listened to what Diaz was saying during that conference call, he made some pretty decent points. I don't expect most people who post here to understand any of what Nick had to say, and I'm most certainly not going to go into what he actually said, but trust me, Nick is no dummy, he has a point, a valid one at that, and he's obviously smarter than most people give him credit for.

What I like is the fact that anytime he goes off on one of these so called rants, he brings up the fact that today's MMA is drifting ever so slowly away from the traditions of martial arts and what this sport was initially about. While I don't agree with him that it's as prevalent as he makes it out to be, again, he does have a point. It was pretty obvious that over the past few years the sport was heading towards a more wrestle based, win without doing much damage, win by controlling your opponent on the ground type fights. But recently, especially in the UFC, over the past 18 months, injury aside, UFC has put on some of their best cards ever.

I hear a lot of people say that Bellator puts on more exciting cards than UFC does. Bullshit. What Bellator does is use shady matchmaking to create huge mismatches where the outcome is almost guaranteed to be a KO, and a violent one at that. That's not a good thing. That will only serve to stunt the growth of certain fighters who were put into a losing situation to begin with. It's discouraging to see, as a fan, and for the fighters themselves, to know you are being set up to fail, by being thrown to the wolves.

If you aren't ready for the big time, You definitely don't want to be in the UFC, so managers think the next best thing is Bellator. Not gonna get into why this is a huge mistake on managers part, locking up their newer unheralded fighter into Bellators system, but if I'm an up and comer and I know I'm not ready for the UFC, I'm gonna try and stay local or try to fight within my range with other promotions, rather than jump into Bellator where I'm gonna get pushed into a system that pits me against someone I know is way above my level. That's Bellators biggest problem right now and it's gonna come back to bite them in the ass sooner rather than later.
3/9/13 11:03 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Cask Strength - I suspect -- and what the fuck do I know, really -- that Diaz is a pretty straight forward guy. He's an amazing talent but he's not going to break or easily bend when it comes to all of the collateral stuff that comes with running a business and building a "brand."

In fact, I am sure by now he's had some conversation with someone where they discussed the "Nick Diaz Brand" and he left that meeting not understanding or wanting to understand what the fuck they were talking about. He sees this career as beginning and ending with fighting. If you've got that level of tunnel vision in life, best thing for you is to find someone you can trust to manage your money.

A lot of fighters are this way I think. Musicians, talents in every trade for that matter. Most athletes and entertainers want other people to handle the headache of business and money. The whole problem is finding "someone you can trust" though. But the whole idea of a professional arrangement, involving contracts and transparency, is to circumvent, and make irrelevant, trust.

This arrangement Nick has, if he has it---the no-contract, hand over the money to my buddy system---is the historical paradigm of a management ripoff. I have no idea whether Cesar is honest in this regard, but just saying that this is THEE paradigm. There are countless examples in history. Jimi Hendrix and Mike Tyson are great examples of superstars who got torched by trust.

More recently, Rampage (through Juanito Ibarra) and Manny Pacquaio come to mind. They trusted their "managers" and got burned.

IF Cesar does well by Nick, then the situation is ideal. But if I were Cesar, I would write everything into a contract and make sure Nick understood it. That would be doing right in my book.

I suppose Nick may not want to cooperate, may not be willing to concentrate long enough to hold the information and get the logic straight. What can you do in that case? Hopefully Cesar is doing him right.
3/9/13 11:06 PM
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WoodenPupa
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A manager's primary responsibilities the way I see it are to (1) get his fighter fights and (2) get good compensation for them. It looks to me like Cesar does well in those respects.

Nobody is going to short-leash Nick though, it's as simple as that. He's going to go his own way. There's only so much Cesar or anybody else can do.
3/9/13 11:23 PM
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Mr Bungle
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WoodenPupa - 
Cask Strength - I suspect -- and what the fuck do I know, really -- that Diaz is a pretty straight forward guy. He's an amazing talent but he's not going to break or easily bend when it comes to all of the collateral stuff that comes with running a business and building a "brand."

In fact, I am sure by now he's had some conversation with someone where they discussed the "Nick Diaz Brand" and he left that meeting not understanding or wanting to understand what the fuck they were talking about. He sees this career as beginning and ending with fighting. If you've got that level of tunnel vision in life, best thing for you is to find someone you can trust to manage your money.

A lot of fighters are this way I think. Musicians, talents in every trade for that matter. Most athletes and entertainers want other people to handle the headache of business and money. The whole problem is finding "someone you can trust" though. But the whole idea of a professional arrangement, involving contracts and transparency, is to circumvent, and make irrelevant, trust.

This arrangement Nick has, if he has it---the no-contract, hand over the money to my buddy system---is the historical paradigm of a management ripoff. I have no idea whether Cesar is honest in this regard, but just saying that this is THEE paradigm. There are countless examples in history. Jimi Hendrix and Mike Tyson are great examples of superstars who got torched by trust.

More recently, Rampage (through Juanito Ibarra) and Manny Pacquaio come to mind. They trusted their "managers" and got burned.

IF Cesar does well by Nick, then the situation is ideal. But if I were Cesar, I would write everything into a contract and make sure Nick understood it. That would be doing right in my book.

I suppose Nick may not want to cooperate, may not be willing to concentrate long enough to hold the information and get the logic straight. What can you do in that case? Hopefully Cesar is doing him right.

I think you have come closest to what is really going on. Like you said about the talent people in their respective profession, be it music or sports, is pretty much accurate. People with an unusual amount of talent are typically border line savants, in their own right, and typically don't like to be bothered with the day to day hassles and bullshit that comes along with whatever trade they are involved with.

So, as you've pointed out, they will turn to management to deal with even the simplest, seemingly easier points of the business simply because it's a distraction, having to deal with nonsense. Whereas they can just put everything except what they can put their talents to good use on the back burner and let someone else deal with it. That's not necessarily a bad thing. What makes it bad is when managers get too damn greedy or go behind the talents back and pull of some bullshit

People with uncanny ability and seemingly unnatural talent is an attractive thing these days, hell I'm drawn into MMA because of the extraordinary nature of the beasts that perform at such a high level in MMA.

Same thing with Music. Certain Musicians are so talented, yet they hardly get the recognition they deserve, either because of mismanagement or thru complete and utter fuckery on the part of the people writing the checks or making the decisions of who seems to be the most marketable.

But in Nicks case, I'm still not sold on the thought that somehow Cesar is fucking Nick over. I just don't think that's the case. As I said earlier and as others have alluded to, it may just be that Nick doesn't really care to worry about the things he can't control. Nothing wrong with that.
3/10/13 6:05 AM
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vazzo
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Nick needs to get pampered the fuck up! Phone Post
3/10/13 8:10 AM
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6ULDV8
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Edited: 03/10/13 8:10 AM
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Nick Diaz is fighting for the UFC welterweight belt next week.  

 

Yeah, his management really dropped the ball on that one.

3/10/13 10:38 AM
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trobinson21
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WoodenPupa -
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Wasa-B -
GayGuardMooseSaucy -  As I said in another thread, Cesar is an awful manager Phone Post

Gil seems to have his head on straight though, knows what he wants, knows how to market himself, and is getting his shot now after successful Pride, SF, etc runs.

Jake too seems to be doing alright, why the chaos with Nick?
I believe Gilbert and Jake are more intelligent than Nick. You don't have to have an MBA to under business but Diaz is a HS dropout. It was posted on here that Diaz literally turns over his earnings to Cesar and is given an allowance. Phone Post

Holy shit. Well, that explains a lot...
Nick doesn't turn his earnings over to Cesar, Jesus people its ok to not like guys without making shit up to make them appear bad. Nick is a pretty well adjusted human, the idea this guy who has accomplished so much is some mouth breathing tard is disrespectful as shit. Phone Post
3/10/13 1:04 PM
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Wasa-B
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trobinson21 - 
WoodenPupa -
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Wasa-B -
GayGuardMooseSaucy -  As I said in another thread, Cesar is an awful manager Phone Post

Gil seems to have his head on straight though, knows what he wants, knows how to market himself, and is getting his shot now after successful Pride, SF, etc runs.

Jake too seems to be doing alright, why the chaos with Nick?
I believe Gilbert and Jake are more intelligent than Nick. You don't have to have an MBA to under business but Diaz is a HS dropout. It was posted on here that Diaz literally turns over his earnings to Cesar and is given an allowance. Phone Post

Holy shit. Well, that explains a lot...
Nick doesn't turn his earnings over to Cesar, Jesus people its ok to not like guys without making shit up to make them appear bad. Nick is a pretty well adjusted human, the idea this guy who has accomplished so much is some mouth breathing tard is disrespectful as shit. Phone Post

He's obviously come this far for a reason but he, himself, continutally paints his own chaotic and unorganized picture so natural to wonder how and why.
3/10/13 1:11 PM
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Beefy Wellington
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WoodenPupa - Nick and Cesar are big on loyalty, and I think Nick needs whatever it is Cesar provides mentally. They sort of co-enable on the bad stuff, and in that respect Cesar can look/make Nick look bad.

BUT...Nick is getting a shot at GSP, despite the positive tests, all the press conference no shows, and losing his last fight, so...what more could he want management-wise?

I'm just speculating on this part, but it looks to me like Nick pretty much runs his own training camps to work on the skills he wants, and the skills he has are top notch.
Pretty good assumption I'd say. Phone Post

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