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S&C UnderGround >> Anyone done a duathlon? Signed up for one in Sep..


3/12/13 12:44 PM
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Z NEDCMK1
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 I like to run. Last year I entered almost 20 events. I have 12 coming up ranging from 5k - 15k but almost all 10k. I wanted more of a challenge but do not have an interest in running a marathon, but have had a growing cycling interest, and growing aspirations of completing some shorter triathlons.

 

So i registered for 2 duathlons in the fall, with plans on doing a triathlon next summer in Central Park. My running is good. Sometimes my pace is good, sometimes fair, sometimes poor as I have always just ran for enjoyment. My training places have gotten much better with an improved diet (particularly pre and post race meals following the diet in Brendan Fraziers "Thrive"). My weekly mileage is 20+ on an average week. I ran a 10k training run as one of my first runs of the spring (didnt run dec-feb) on Sunday with a just under 9 min pace.

 

I have taken some initial steps. I revamped my diet. I was 190 and bulky and have been trimming down, currently 175 with a goal of 160. My diet has been extremely clean and my training times have been better than they were in the fall.

 

I will be purchasing my first road bike in May (I had another thread from yesterday on that) and today joined a bike racing club (Century Road Club) that offers clinics for beginners and training but it is all related to strictly bike racing not dual sport events.

 

My current strength training has been 5x5's but I assume I should change that.

 

Anyone ere into mutisport endurance events? I am not too sure of what to expect, especially the cyclng part. I have watched some races and it is all tight packs and a lot of bumping, should I expect that? Any training tips or tipe in general?

3/12/13 7:25 PM
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Adventure Runner
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I'm into endurance events, but competitive multisport is something I haven't delved into yet. I plan on it though. I have done some abnormal events that involved more than just running.

My strength training is similar to 5x5. It's a system I developed myself where I start with 2x1. Then 2x2, 2x3, 2x4,2x5. Then 3x5, 4x5, 5x5. It works well for going through difficult bodyweight progressions, and I just started applying to weights as I work back from an injury sustained while climbing.

You may want to drop sets if you want to lose a lot of weight, but I don't see the need to stop working maximal strength. Surely the strength and endurance work interfere with each other, but if you're not looking to go pro and eek out every second of time during your race, I find having both is healthier.
3/13/13 7:59 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Edited: 03/13/13 7:59 AM
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Thanks.

 

I enjoy the 5x5 and every third week I do a 1x20 squat. My weight is coming off smoothly but mostly from an increase in calorie deficit.

 

I am thinking about switching up the 5x5's for a more plyo routine but not sure yet. I would like to maintain strength but also push my lactic acid threshold.

 

My weight training will probably reduce to once a week soon so trying to figure out what routine may help best.

3/13/13 11:16 AM
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Adventure Runner
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People have varying results with plyos. I think they are something that should be trained sparingly. The object is to produce as much force as possible to sharpen your force:time curve, so they really wouldn't be used to train your lactic acid threshold. Training a plyo movement that you can complete for minutes in order to increase explosive strength is the same thing as using a weight you can squat for minutes to increase your maximal strength. It's definitely not optimal.

As for your lactic acid threshold, I've found that performing the task at hand much more beneficial than simply some thrown together collection of exercises with arbitrary reps/time to complete. If you want to increase your lactic acid threshold for cycling for instance, then find out what you true max HR is (and if you want to throw down some money find out where your true anaerobic threshold is). Then with the use of a heart rate monitor spend intervals of time past your threshold (zone 3) with recovery in aerobic zones (zone 1 and zone 2). Like say 60 seconds of work in zone 3/4 with at least 60 seconds of recovery where your heart rate is in zone 1/2. You'll find yourself pushing your heart rate higher and higher before reaching your anaerobic threshold, and your heart rate will rebound much more quickly. I've pushed mine pretty high. The last short distance race I did (4 miles) had my HR as an average of around 180 for the entire 28 minutes it took to run it.

That works better than a rest period during which your heart rate may never recover or dip out of anaerobic zones. Still if you don't feel like going through the effort to calculate zones and buying a quality HRM, then the one-size-fits-all interval workouts can be beneficial. Forum member Taku has a good set of them which I got really good benefits from for the first 4-6 weeks. Results flatlined by 10 weeks, so I cut it off before going through the whole program: http://www.trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml

If you just want to switch up your program for something fresh, then this is all a moot point. :) Anyway, that's just from my experience. Others may offer different advice. Good luck! Think you'll stick to the sprint format or will you go longer?

3/13/13 11:42 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Thanks for the advise!

 

I have a heart rate monitor so i will look into those intervals more in depth.

 

I definitely will be looing to go longer next year. Much longer I hope.

3/13/13 11:55 AM
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Adventure Runner
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No prob. I'm happy to help. I've experimented and read quite a bit to figure out what works for me. If one thing is for certain, you'll find plenty of conflicting info about "proper" training out there. Just have fun with it, experiment, and figure out what gives you the best results. We're all an experiment of one.

That's cool about the distance. I was contemplating a half Ironman for next year. Maybe a full if I feel up to it. I like the longer endurance events these days. Anything under 6 hours is gravy.
3/13/13 12:34 PM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Adventure Runner - No prob. I'm happy to help. I've experimented and read quite a bit to figure out what works for me. If one thing is for certain, you'll find plenty of conflicting info about "proper" training out there. Just have fun with it, experiment, and figure out what gives you the best results. We're all an experiment of one.

That's cool about the distance. I was contemplating a half Ironman for next year. Maybe a full if I feel up to it. I like the longer endurance events these days. Anything under 6 hours is gravy.

I am on your site now. Cool stuff.

 

Thanks man.

 

Yeah I would love to do a truly long endurance event. So far my longest run has been 20 miles. I have gone to see my cousin do longer triathlons and find myself in awe.

3/13/13 2:34 PM
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Adventure Runner
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Thanks! I'm a bit embarrassed about the state of the site now. I'm totally reworking it. It was such a pain to add content that most stuff on there is really stale.
3/13/13 2:59 PM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Adventure Runner - Thanks! I'm a bit embarrassed about the state of the site now. I'm totally reworking it. It was such a pain to add content that most stuff on there is really stale.

Looks like the beginning of some great content. The running workouts are solid.

3/13/13 8:00 PM
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Kevin Curtis
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I have only done a couple sprint tris. My plan this year is a half iron man in June, and a marathon in October.

I was doing 5x5s, but have scaled back to just 3x5 bench press and pullups as my training plan progresses... and I'm sure will eliminate the weights all together as I get closer to my races. Just not enough hours in the day for me to train and recover.

I'm not real experienced, but I don't think that there is much in the way of bumping on the bike (different story on the swim), especially with most races not allowing drafting.

3/14/13 12:31 PM
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vermonter
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I have not done this, as I can't stand cycling, but i love the idea of multisport events. Maybe trade the cycling portion of a tri for a non-technical hike and i'd be all about it.

Anyway, my only advice is as follows:

1. Work on your cycling if you aren't an ace as of yet. As you mentioned the new challenges of cylcing in a race could throw you off quite a bit.

2. Work on your pace. You'll be surprised in your regular races how effective learning to keep a pace will be. Besides just running, that probably made the biggest difference for me.
3/14/13 10:50 PM
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Adventure Runner
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Z NEDCMK1 - 
Adventure Runner - Thanks! I'm a bit embarrassed about the state of the site now. I'm totally reworking it. It was such a pain to add content that most stuff on there is really stale.

Looks like the beginning of some great content. The running workouts are solid.


Thanks. You lit a fire under a butt, so I just published the new site. I just need to do a bit of minor detail work, and then start rolling out new content.
3/15/13 7:50 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Looking forward to reading it.

3/15/13 8:20 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Splurged and ordered myself a garmin watch with heart rate for training. It will be nice being able to track my heart rate at different paces, and also monitor my 5k, 10k, and half marathon paces by heartrate rather than educated guessing by how i feel, or by what i want my time to be.

 

For strength training right now I am going to lift once a week, more if weather or scheduling keeps me from training. I am not going to switch it up too much and keep my routine based in Squats, Deadlifts, Overhead press, pull ups and stiff legged dead lift. On rainy days I will do a kettlebell routine to keep it mixed up. I feel the strength is very important for me at this point as I establish a base level of strength and fitness before my racing season begins and will re address 12 weeks out from the first duathlon.

 

My training schedue until i purchase the bike (8 weeks) will be something along these lines:

1 day tempo run

1 day repeats(intervals) run

1 day long run (10+ miles minimum. 20 mile max)

1 day recovery run

1 day lifting (5x5 squats, 1x5 deadlift, 3x10 light stiff legged deadlift, 5x5 overhead press, 3x failure pullups, various push up pyramids and variations, various core work (sit up complexes, planks, supermans ect...)

Each run will be followed by a brief full body body weight routine (peiced together from some runnersworld foam roller stuff, and some of the trainfor strength stuff) and stretchingtotaling around 15 minutes, and 90 minutes of yoga after the long run (gotta love groupons if you are in nyc).

 

My first running races are April 6 & 7, 10k and 15k respectively. I am goig to count these as warm up races. Then I have at least 10 races between then and September but will probably add more. Get the bike on May 4th.

 

 

 

3/15/13 8:39 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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This year I want my training and diet to be spot on. Last year I did not train at all and just showed up for the races fairly cold. My times were awful but I had a lot of fun. I could not commit to training often due to a research project I was working on, and full time school but I do not have those restrictions anymore. I will post my times compared to last years at  the same races when they complete if anyone would like to see the difference.

 

My diet is spot on this year. I have been very strict for only 3 weeks so far but am down 15lbs and looking much much leaner and feeling fantastic. The last few days the weight loss trailed off a bit which is good. I had let myself go a bit the last 9 months as I copleted my degree and blew up to 190lbs. For reference I last had a match (boxing) in 2009 and fought at 132, and ran a great racing seasons in 2010 & 2011at around 160. Right now I am 175. When I get to what feels like a high performance weight for me (160lbs)I will post before and after pics.

 

I am modeling my diet off of Brendan Braziers Vegan "Thrive" diet with some minor adjustments.

 

Looks something like this:

40 - 60% of calories from vegetables (half raw half cooked)

20 - 40% beans and legumes

10-30% fruit

10 - 30% seeds and nuts

10 -15% eggs, fish, fowl and fat free dairy

rarely red meat and dairy

zero processed foods, processed flour, processed sugar

1 green smoothie (with added isopure protein) and 1 vegetable juice daily

Fish twice weekly

eggs twice weekly

 

I'll post some of the nutricious recipes we have been making (my wife is training for most of the same event but is also running NY and Chicago marathons, we will be following similar training schedules and identical nutrition plans)

 

I would love to hear any opinions on this training plan (it will run like this until we get our bikes on may 4th then will be adjusted, we are also consulting with 2 local distance running and multi sport trainers who are very well respeted here in NY during that time as well to figure out how we need to tweek anything)

 

Thanks again guys. I post and read on a lot of other training forums, but this is the only on I value opinions and comments from. The fitness IQ's here are priceless, especially compared to runnersworld or various triathlon boards.

 

 

3/15/13 8:50 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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Kevin Curtis - I have only done a couple sprint tris. My plan this year is a half iron man in June, and a marathon in October.

I was doing 5x5s, but have scaled back to just 3x5 bench press and pullups as my training plan progresses... and I'm sure will eliminate the weights all together as I get closer to my races. Just not enough hours in the day for me to train and recover.

I'm not real experienced, but I don't think that there is much in the way of bumping on the bike (different story on the swim), especially with most races not allowing drafting.


Thanks, I was curious about the bike part. I have gone to some of my cousins races and some - especially the crits - make me nervous just watching considering my inexperience. They are right on top of each other and it always looks like a ridiculous wreck about to happen.

After seeing your post I checked the rules for the two duathlons and like you said there is no drafting. I didn't catch that. I feel much more confident that I can handle the bike segment safely. I signed up for some workshop in June that handle the bumping and whatnot but I can' picture myself not wanting to punch someone for bumping me lol

 

It is funny, I boxed for years and except for once or twice was never afraid, but I am afaid of soe guy in tights on a bicycle bumping into me lol.

 

Thanks for the info man.

3/15/13 9:17 AM
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Z NEDCMK1
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vermonter - I have not done this, as I can't stand cycling, but i love the idea of multisport events. Maybe trade the cycling portion of a tri for a non-technical hike and i'd be all about it.

Anyway, my only advice is as follows:

1. Work on your cycling if you aren't an ace as of yet. As you mentioned the new challenges of cylcing in a race could throw you off quite a bit.

2. Work on your pace. You'll be surprised in your regular races how effective learning to keep a pace will be. Besides just running, that probably made the biggest difference for me.

Thanks.

 

Cycling is going to be the tough part for me. I joined a road club to do group rides, and signed up for some beginner safety and skillset workshops they offer to members.

I have heard that a lot about the pacing. I have a Garmin on the way tomorrow so i can track my pace and heartrate and I am hoping this will be a good tool to get my times down to respectable levels.

3/15/13 10:25 AM
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Adventure Runner
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Sounds like you have it all dialed in. Just don't be afraid to adjust if you aren't seeing the gains you'd expect to see and don't be afraid to miss training days if you just aren't feeling it.

I use a Garmin 410 w/HRM. It has been through hell and is still ticking although it won't power off anymore. :) I love it. Garmin makes good products.

Good luck!

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