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BJJGround Forum >> Is Lloyd involved in witness tampering


3/16/13 11:15 AM
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krept
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"I think people justlike to see others fall."

I understand the cynicism, but why does it apply to Lloyd. If it is because of his success, why weren't people cheering when Marcelo's gym got flooded? If something bad happened to Rener or Ryron do you think even half as many people would be happy? Or Kesting, Roy Dean?

In fact, I think you would see the community come together and try to help them. The simple fact is that there are many successful martial artists who people feel are great ambassadors to the sport. Not necessarily representing BJJ to the outside world, but especially those of us who are far below their level.

And while it is true that some are attracted to train wrecks, look at the outporing of support that Terere got. This attraction should be clearly distinguished from the desire for someone to fail.

At the end of the day, many would prefer those who peddle shady business practices to just stop screwing people and give back to the community after coming clean and making those who were screwed, whole. People have done this, taken their lumps, and been embraced again because that is the nature of a strong and fair society.

When there is criminal stuff... if the allegations of hazing and abuse are true, then it's really bad. This is different than the "is this guy a real black belt?" threads.

Why? Because consider this... take Lloyd's account regarding the rape of the 17 year old and the NYE incident at face value for a minute. Keenan expressed reservations about bringing his sister out there. At a minmum, the PERCEPTION of the Medal Chasers was that they split in the middle of the night. These guys and the guy who wrote the letter why were as "on the inside" as it gets. By all accounts they left a world class team, coach, facilities etc... all the good stuff Lloyd says... they just split.

The fact that there seems to be a lot left unspoken about this is as important as what has been said.

That makes it a lot different than people just hating success, imo. Many people are successful and do not get a fraction of the flack. Some people are unsuccessful and associate themselves and get blasted. So, there is more to it than simple hate.
imo
3/16/13 11:43 AM
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andre
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I hate seeing what happened, particularly to the victims, but also to someone I respected a lot. I never looked deeply into Lloyd's marketing stuff so I was never put off by it, but I respected him based on limited interaction with him many years ago and on the results his team achieved.

So I hate to see one of our own fail so badly and scheme so diabolically.

At the same time, as polarizing as he was before the NYE crime, its no surprise that its such big news now. Phone Post
3/16/13 4:59 PM
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Dana Van Gogh
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TTT fuck Lloyd Phone Post
3/17/13 7:14 AM
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Jeffphansen77
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Can someone clarify a minor point for me? I'm mostly an outsider to the BJJ community & have been following this thing lately. My wife & kids train ( not at an LI school) while I work but I've been a martial artist for most of my life & like to keep up with what's going on out there.

Hearing my son hassle his mom for being "a 97%er" a few months ago perked my ears up a bit & I ended up googling it & discovering this Lloyd Irvin phenomenon a bit before the meltdown.

From what little I pieced together before all of this, Lloyd seemed to have an ambiguous status in the BJJ community.

I'd see folks complain about his Matt Furey-ish internet marketing & mercenary business practices. I'd see him defended in vague terms, mostly on "nothing wrong with making money, the product is good" type grounds.

The impression I got from here was that he had a shady feel about him but was so well established & had such aggressive defenders that people grumbled quietly or not at all. He also seemed to have wall off his group somewhat into his own world apart from the larger community despite the fact that his people competed in it.

Are my impressions roughly accurate? Thanks.

3/17/13 1:22 PM
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krept
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I think the 3% reference is related to data from Social Security in the context of retirement. Like only 3% will retire with a savings or is it retire with $1M? It would be interesting data to verify.

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