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UnderGround Forums >> Nick Diaz's wrestler argument. Is there an answer?


3/17/13 1:42 PM
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SuperMann
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Is there a legitimate solution to the now popular wrestler "take down" to win strategy? Would giving equal points to the fighter getting back to their feet bring remedy? After all, the ability to get back to the feet is highly impressive and every bit as technical as a takedown.

Also, would a round/time adjustment be feasible? Boxing championship matches are something like 12/3 minute rounds. Would a commission allow 10/5 minute rounds? If maybe even an extended first round?

It just seems like there are so many logical options, to allow for scoring equality. What are your professional opinions? Phone Post
3/17/13 1:47 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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Giving all the judges monitors might help, it can't be easy to see everything without multiple camera angles.
3/17/13 1:48 PM
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Jaybrone
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He was making an excuse. Fact is even pride rules wouldn't have helped him. It isn't like GSP wasn't trying to work on the ground. He was constantly looking for position and trying to do damage.

3/17/13 1:48 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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Edited: 03/17/13 1:48 PM
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changing the scoring system..score zero points for takedowns or top control..place greater emphasis on aggressiveness/damage/close finishes

3/17/13 1:50 PM
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand
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Jaybrone -

He was making an excuse. Fact is even pride rules wouldn't have helped him. It isn't like GSP wasn't trying to work on the ground. He was constantly looking for position and trying to do damage.

He would have eaten a bunch of knees with pride rules Phone Post
3/17/13 1:54 PM
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KevinMcAllister
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku -

changing the scoring system..score zero points for takedowns or top control..place greater emphasis on aggressiveness/damage/close finishes

This seems like one of the only real solutions. Phone Post
3/17/13 1:55 PM
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SuperMann
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Jaybrone -

He was making an excuse. Fact is even pride rules wouldn't have helped him. It isn't like GSP wasn't trying to work on the ground. He was constantly looking for position and trying to do damage.

Thanks for the reply Jaybrone. I am interested in this topic beyond the Diaz/GSP fight. There are always so many threads and arguments over scoring. It would just be nice to work toward a remedy. Phone Post
3/17/13 1:56 PM
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SuperMann
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Tad Ghostal - Giving all the judges monitors might help, it can't be easy to see everything without multiple camera angles.
This is true. It is difficult to see all the subtleties if an MMA fight, even cage side. There are obstructed views and angles. Phone Post
3/17/13 1:59 PM
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Zz_JC_zZ
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He wouldn't complain if a wrestler took him down and then got tapped. GSP just has enough jiu jitsu skills to understand what Nick was trying to do and avoid it.
3/17/13 1:59 PM
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SuperMann
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BadMon -

YELLOW CARDS FOR STALLING NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED

I agree BadMon, but that is another highly subjective remedy. It would be nice to find an answer that is more concrete and written in rule books. Maybe there just isn't an answer outside the subjective opinion of judges. But I'd still like to see longer rounds lol... In my dreams I'm sure. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:03 PM
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UGSlapshot
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SuperMann - Is there a legitimate solution to the now popular wrestler "take down" to win strategy? Would giving equal points to the fighter getting back to their feet bring remedy? After all, the ability to get back to the feet is highly impressive and every bit as technical as a takedown.

Also, would a round/time adjustment be feasible? Boxing championship matches are something like 12/3 minute rounds. Would a commission allow 10/5 minute rounds? If maybe even an extended first round?

It just seems like there are so many logical options, to allow for scoring equality. What are your professional opinions? Phone Post
The answer is, it was always a fallacy to begin with. There's nothing wrong with nicks tdd. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:05 PM
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BenBJJ
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SuperMann - 
Tad Ghostal - Giving all the judges monitors might help, it can't be easy to see everything without multiple camera angles.
This is true. It is difficult to see all the subtleties if an MMA fight, even cage side. There are obstructed views and angles. Phone Post

I agree. Subtitles would be great as usually the fighters aren't mike'd up and what they say to each other isn't always picked up by ringside microphones.
3/17/13 2:09 PM
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Gward is good
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Allowing up kicks from guard on a downed opponent would help. Not saying it would have changed this fight, but definitely gives the guard player an additional attack.
3/17/13 2:10 PM
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Wasa-B
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Guys, this was not the fight to use to argue against UFC judging. Diaz did not offer GSP enough offense from his back to win the rounds. Far from it. Yall just bitter.
3/17/13 2:11 PM
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shaqitup
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The answer is for nick to stop complaining about it.

He spent 10+ minutes on the feet with georges and did almost nothing.

He spent a lot of time on his back and went for the exact same roll every single time.

 

No matter how that fight was scored, even if getting takedowns had a negative score, GSP still won the fight.

3/17/13 2:13 PM
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SuperMann
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BenBJJ -
SuperMann - 
Tad Ghostal - Giving all the judges monitors might help, it can't be easy to see everything without multiple camera angles.
This is true. It is difficult to see all the subtleties if an MMA fight, even cage side. There are obstructed views and angles. Phone Post

I agree. Subtitles would be great as usually the fighters aren't mike'd up and what they say to each other isn't always picked up by ringside microphones.
Brilliant! I would love to have sounds recorded with a focused mic. Like they do in the NFL videos. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:14 PM
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SuperMann
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Gward is good - Allowing up kicks from guard on a downed opponent would help. Not saying it would have changed this fight, but definitely gives the guard player an additional attack.
Upward kicks would be great. At least to the body. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:15 PM
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Wasa-B
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shaqitup - 

The answer is for nick to stop complaining about it.

He spent 10+ minutes on the feet with georges and did almost nothing.

He spent a lot of time on his back and went for the exact same roll every single time.

 

No matter how that fight was scored, even if getting takedowns had a negative score, GSP still won the fight.


Yup, Diaz fans...

3/17/13 2:16 PM
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SuperMann
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Wasa-B - Guys, this was not the fight to use to argue against UFC judging. Diaz did not offer GSP enough offense from his back to win the rounds. Far from it. Yall just bitter.
You're correct. I really wasn't Intending to his performance as an argument, nor was I being a Nick apologist. I just used his name because he has been very vocal about the topic. Thought it would spark a good discussion in regards to solutions. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:19 PM
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edwims
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SuperMann - 
Gward is good - Allowing up kicks from guard on a downed opponent would help. Not saying it would have changed this fight, but definitely gives the guard player an additional attack.
Upward kicks would be great. At least to the body. Phone Post

you can't kick to the body of an opponent no matter where he is?

you can soccer kick to the body and knee to the body of a fully downed opponent....you can upkick to the body already
3/17/13 2:21 PM
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SuperMann
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shaqitup -

The answer is for nick to stop complaining about it.

He spent 10+ minutes on the feet with georges and did almost nothing.

He spent a lot of time on his back and went for the exact same roll every single time.

 

No matter how that fight was scored, even if getting takedowns had a negative score, GSP still won the fight.

True about the outcome. But I would still like to see less decisions. Boxing championships are like 12/3 minute rounds totaling 36 minutes. MMA championships are 5/5minute rounds equaling 25 minutes. Wouldn't it make sense to have all combat sports be quality in time length? I think this would be great to display the conditioning of the athlete. The endurance factor is one of my favorite aspects of sport. How an athlete can push oneself over time and distance. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:22 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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I like to see them get rid of stand ups, too often the guy on bottom just holds on and gets rewarded by the ref standing them up.
3/17/13 2:23 PM
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shaqitup
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SuperMann - 
shaqitup -

The answer is for nick to stop complaining about it.

He spent 10+ minutes on the feet with georges and did almost nothing.

He spent a lot of time on his back and went for the exact same roll every single time.

 

No matter how that fight was scored, even if getting takedowns had a negative score, GSP still won the fight.

True about the outcome. But I would still like to see less decisions. Boxing championships are like 12/3 minute rounds totaling 36 minutes. MMA championships are 5/5minute rounds equaling 25 minutes. Wouldn't it make sense to have all combat sports be quality in time length? I think this would be great to display the conditioning of the athlete. The endurance factor is one of my favorite aspects of sport. How an athlete can push oneself over time and distance. Phone Post

MMA fighters have to grapple, have to have an opponents whole body weight leaning against them, or on top of them.

Boxers also have 11 1 minute breaks dividing their 12 3 minute rounds, whereas mma fighters only have 4 1 minute breaks dividing their 5 5 minute rounds.

I don't think many guys would come out for the 6th and 7th rounds looking fresh.

3/17/13 2:30 PM
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TheGoldenRule
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Wow...
How bout learn to fackin wrestle?
Butthurt quasi-fans r funny Phone Post
3/17/13 2:32 PM
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semtex0809
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Jaybrone -

He was making an excuse. Fact is even pride rules wouldn't have helped him. It isn't like GSP wasn't trying to work on the ground. He was constantly looking for position and trying to do damage.

Lol errrnk! Phone Post

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