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UnderGround Forums >> Nick Diaz's wrestler argument. Is there an answer?


3/17/13 2:32 PM
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Brandable
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Defined judging criteria would help. Takedowns should be counted the same as every other offensive move, i.e. they should count as a landed punch, kick, or knee. There is no reason to reward takedowns as highly as they are in MMA.

3/17/13 2:33 PM
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lookoutawhale
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Nick wants pride rules, if it was Pride rules Nick would have gotten demolished by GSP hes lucky its UFC rules. Imagine GSP with the ability to knee guys on the ground as hes pinning them down or soccer kick them as they have trouble getting up. Nick needs to learn to wrestle or join K-1.

3/17/13 2:41 PM
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Herman Munster
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Last. I checked.  Americans imposed wrestling as a dominant art on mma, now they can't handle being beaten at their own game with it.  "Take me down mother fucker" "so I can turtle up like a bitch, bitch"

3/17/13 2:43 PM
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BRUCEYI
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Shorter rounds would hurt the bjj guy. And giving points to a bottom guy escaping would make top guy hold on even tighter, inducing more stalling, IMO

Honestly, it's so hard to fight a wrestler. Most of these guys have been doing it since 5-10 years old. A wrestler with a good low wide base is so hard to sweep. A wrestler with tight tucked elbows is so hard to submit. A wrestler with that thick wrestler neck is so hard to choke

Fighters just need to learn to work around the wrestlers ability instead of complaining. These wrestlers earned it with their 10-20 years of hard work on the mat. Phone Post
3/17/13 2:46 PM
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Herman Munster
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Edited: 03/17/13 2:48 PM
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lookoutawhale - 

Nick wants pride rules, if it was Pride rules Nick would have gotten demolished by GSP hes lucky its UFC rules. Imagine GSP with the ability to knee guys on the ground as hes pinning them down or soccer kick them as they have trouble getting up. Nick needs to learn to wrestle or join K-1.

 

  • Nick would be killed in K1 because he can't kickbox for shit.  He'd get killed in boxing because he can't box for shit., except for in straight lines.   And he'd get killed in mma worse under Pride rules because his style is actually worse for it.  The rules he hates the most are the rules that favour his style the most.  He's just too much of an idiot to see that, and of course needs excuses.

 

3/17/13 3:25 PM
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ranier wolfcastle
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some bjj guys dont mind being taken down, and they go for endless submission chains. however gsp wouldnt let nick even get near a position where he could attempt a sub

3/17/13 3:25 PM
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Hoss
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Maybe Nick should learn to strike effectively from his back. Lots of fighters now get taken down and do more damage from the bottom than the guy sitting in the guard, I thought Condit won for this reason. Takedowns don't really mean anything if the guy doesnt follow up with some type of striking, and if he takes 100 elbows from the guy on the bottom and does nothing in return then he should lose.
3/17/13 3:31 PM
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Wasa-B
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How about we take a page out of Condit's book after losing to GSP and Hendricks: I gotta work on my wrestling.

Now that's Streetz!
3/17/13 3:39 PM
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Gward is good
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Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant changing the rules to allow up kicks to the face from guard against a downed opponent. E.g., what Anderson did to Okami in their first fight.
3/17/13 4:40 PM
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RustyTrombone
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Wasa-B - How about we take a page out of Condit's book after losing to GSP and Hendricks: I gotta work on my wrestling.

Now that's Streetz!
Exactly. Either man up, admit your shortcomings and go work on your wrestling or move over to pro boxing. I'm not a gsp fan and wish he'd take more risks but did diaz really expect him to stand in front of him like bj did. Phone Post
3/17/13 4:56 PM
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SuperMann
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Brandable -

Defined judging criteria would help. Takedowns should be counted the same as every other offensive move, i.e. they should count as a landed punch, kick, or knee. There is no reason to reward takedowns as highly as they are in MMA.

Agreed. Or at least as many points as getting back to your feet. Phone Post
3/17/13 4:57 PM
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Bailx
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if you added back KNEES to the HEAD on the ground.... GSP would probably have a bunch of FINISHES...

the ones he throws to the body are hard shots, but he might see it as wasted energy

3/17/13 4:58 PM
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SuperMann
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Gward is good - Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant changing the rules to allow up kicks to the face from guard against a downed opponent. E.g., what Anderson did to Okami in their first fight.
Yes! Phone Post
3/17/13 5:00 PM
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Dmoney35
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simple:

if you don't like it stop him from doing it Phone Post
3/17/13 5:03 PM
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orcus
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lol @ GSP getting yellow-carded for that performance in Pride. For what? When was he stalling?

How many yellow cards did Arona get?

3/17/13 5:06 PM
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grafzep
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he did a great job stuffing takedowns

unfortunately he was beaten in every aspect of the fight and never put GSP in danger
3/17/13 5:07 PM
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MdGeist
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lookoutawhale - 

Nick wants pride rules, if it was Pride rules Nick would have gotten demolished by GSP hes lucky its UFC rules. Imagine GSP with the ability to knee guys on the ground as hes pinning them down or soccer kick them as they have trouble getting up. Nick needs to learn to wrestle or join K-1.


Imagine if GSP had the ability to drop elbows on Diaz... He would have totally cut Diaz's head open like in the 1st round and blood would be gushing everywhere and the doctor would have to stop the fight....

3/17/13 5:25 PM
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FullyLoadedFists
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Bring back knees to the head! Phone Post
3/17/13 5:27 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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lookoutawhale -

Nick wants pride rules, if it was Pride rules Nick would have gotten demolished by GSP hes lucky its UFC rules. Imagine GSP with the ability to knee guys on the ground as hes pinning them down or soccer kick them as they have trouble getting up. Nick needs to learn to wrestle or join K-1.

No. Gsp could have easily punched from back control but didn't. What makes u think he would knee which takes away even more base. Phone Post
3/17/13 5:41 PM
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narsil x anduril
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if other fighters at 170 lbs can't deal with the constant onslaught of jabs, superman punches, beautiful takedowns, and constant barrage from on top that GSP brings, then that is a result of their shortcomings in their skillset against someone like GSP, who engaged with diaz constantly.
3/17/13 5:41 PM
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Stea1th
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Takedowns should not be so heavily scored. Very simple. Taking someone down and doing no damage should not be any points, even more so of the guy on the bottom is hitting the guy on top with elbows and neutralizing everything from the top. Phone Post
3/17/13 5:48 PM
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likatiga
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I know this thread isn't specifically about this performance or even GSP in general.

Regardless, GSP has been the long time champ because he's always made sure he was better than his opponents at everything. If rules were different, GSP would just make sure he's better at whatever he needed to be.

He's just that good Phone Post
3/17/13 6:19 PM
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Herrgh
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I think they could score the takedown if they don't return to their feet or scramble to another position.
I.e.
If you get taken down and just lay there then you are losing. You are in a position you don't want to be and cannot change it. That said if you attack off your back and don't look like you are in a helpless position or being controlled on the ground I think the act of being taken down should be nullified or given less merit. Similar to taking the center of the octagon.
IMO a take down (assuming its not a big dangerous throw etc) is just moving the fight to a particular place and its the control you do with your wrestling that should be judged not the takedown itself. Phone Post
3/17/13 7:20 PM
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anti_hate101
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ANDERSON SILVA... end thread
3/17/13 11:07 PM
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Wasa-B
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GSP would have won 50-45 on the cards even if the tds werent counted, he won the standup and ground each round. Move on, kids.

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