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UnderGround Forums >> First of all Ben, Hendricks would break your face


3/18/13 10:57 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Edited: 03/18/13 10:59 PM
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I give Ben some shot at GSP because he has less miles on the tires and GSP isn't KO'in people. But Johnny Hendricks would absolutely desttroy him and very very fast.

So would Koscheck

So would Ellenberger

So would Condit

Amoussou was a good start, now you need to follow that up before you start talking like you're the big man in the division.

3/18/13 11:00 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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I also add Rory to that list now

3/18/13 11:01 PM
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Willin
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Edited: 03/18/13 11:01 PM
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Perhaps wiggum could chime in here, but who would win in a pure wrestling match, Askren or Hendricks?

 

I'd imagine it'd be close at the least. Add in the fact that Hendricks can knock anyone's head off and Askren throws strikes about as well as Jon Jones does in bowling and the OP is onto something...

 

 

3/18/13 11:02 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Willin - 

Perhaps wiggum could chime in here, but who would win in a pure wrestling match, Askren or Hendricks?

 

I'd imagine it'd be close at the least. Add in the fact that Hendricks can knock anyone's head off and Askren throws strikes about as well as Jon Jones does in bowling and the OP is onto something...

 

 


Regardless of who has the purer wrestling skill, Johnny would be able to get up and no one is stopping his blitzes right now

3/18/13 11:04 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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I am less than 60/40 in picking Hendrick against my guy in GSP, I am that impressed with him. He is a more vicious more powerful Koscheck and seems to use his wrestling on whjen necessary unlike Koscheck who has it always as a primary gameplan the minute he get's connected onto

 

The rest of my list wouldn't destroy Askren but still win 

3/18/13 11:05 PM
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Jaybrone
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Askren needs to beat a relevent WW before he talks about GSP. Consistently beating guys ranked 20+ doesn't prove much compared to what GSP is doing.

3/18/13 11:05 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Edited: 03/18/13 11:05 PM
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Anderson Emelianenko GOAT - and Condit

 

They have gotten up from Wrestlers and are getting better. Johnny only survived because his chin is being revealed as just as good as these guys.

Condit landed a few counters that would have dropped most of the division.

 

3/18/13 11:06 PM
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DANA PLEASE CUT NICK DIAZ
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I think he wrestle fucks Condit to a UD, and wins a split against Jake and Kos.

Hendricks might steal a split 5/10 times, but GSP would beat him outright, UD.

 

^ imo

I'd like to see him against Maia.

3/18/13 11:06 PM
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BackAndLeft
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And Maia Phone Post
3/18/13 11:07 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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DANA PLEASE CUT NICK DIAZ - 

I think he wrestle fucks Condit to a UD, and wins a split against Jake and Kos.

Hendricks might steal a split 5/10 times, but GSP would beat him outright, UD.

 

^ imo

I'd like to see him against Maia.


That's another great fight idea.

I just think at the top the guys with the best TDD and the best rounded win most of the time when a wrestler still has holes in the overally game.

Condit has lost to two top well rounded wrestlers, and that's it and he almost won both fights with strikes.

3/18/13 11:08 PM
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand
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I still don't have a problem with Askren thinking he can/would everyone in the world at 170 though. Why fault anyone for being confident?

3/18/13 11:09 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Aksren leaves openings and Gasses. The top 5 in the division do not miss those opportunities. Fitch's striking was not great and his wrestling game was proven to be just below the top 5 and now he has paid for it unfortunately.

3/18/13 11:10 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 

I still don't have a problem with Askren thinking he can/would everyone in the world at 170 though. Why fault anyone for being confident?


I'm not faulting him for being confident, I'm offering a realistic analysis on his chance against the top 5 based on a guy with holes who was dropped by Jay Hieron (I seem to remember)

3/18/13 11:13 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Edited: 03/18/13 11:13 PM
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When the top 5 are all at top stamina in the first round I don't see anyone getting the takedown on them especially the wrestlers excepot for on Condit who isn't the best at stopping a TDD but is one of the best at Scrambling up. That leaves an entire round for a Johnny or Rory to tag the shit out of his face. Maybe I'm wrong on Rory and his TDD isn't as good as I think it, however Askren is not GNP'ing him out and not submitting him eventually he and Condit get their openings

3/18/13 11:14 PM
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand
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ChaosOverkill - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 

I still don't have a problem with Askren thinking he can/would everyone in the world at 170 though. Why fault anyone for being confident?


I'm not faulting him for being confident, I'm offering a realistic analysis on his chance against the top 5 based on a guy with holes who was dropped by Jay Hieron (I seem to remember)


Alright, it just seems like mma fans do this a lot when fighters say they can beat people like that. Askren is probably saying it for attention more than anything else though.

3/18/13 11:18 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
ChaosOverkill - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 

I still don't have a problem with Askren thinking he can/would everyone in the world at 170 though. Why fault anyone for being confident?


I'm not faulting him for being confident, I'm offering a realistic analysis on his chance against the top 5 based on a guy with holes who was dropped by Jay Hieron (I seem to remember)


Alright, it just seems like mma fans do this a lot when fighters say they can beat people like that. Askren is probably saying it for attention more than anything else though.


I would love to see him get his shot, I'm not against him doing that he's more than talented enough to make it to the top 5 in the UFC, after that his lack of striking sinks his ship. All the top guys who lack a top mastered element have sunk after losing to GSP. Only Koscheck has remained and he is faultering as is evidence with Lawler.

3/18/13 11:21 PM
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand
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ChaosOverkill -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
ChaosOverkill - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 

I still don't have a problem with Askren thinking he can/would everyone in the world at 170 though. Why fault anyone for being confident?


I'm not faulting him for being confident, I'm offering a realistic analysis on his chance against the top 5 based on a guy with holes who was dropped by Jay Hieron (I seem to remember)


Alright, it just seems like mma fans do this a lot when fighters say they can beat people like that. Askren is probably saying it for attention more than anything else though.


I would love to see him get his shot, I'm not against him doing that he's more than talented enough to make it to the top 5 in the UFC, after that his lack of striking sinks his ship. All the top guys who lack a top mastered element have sunk after losing to GSP. Only Koscheck has remained and he is faultering as is evidence with Lawler.

Kos never did well against the elite of top 5 welterweights either though. Has Askren fought any good wrestlers?

I think he could beat a lot of guys in the UFC but may need generous stylistic matchups. Phone Post
3/18/13 11:28 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Edited: 03/18/13 11:28 PM
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
ChaosOverkill -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
ChaosOverkill - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 

I still don't have a problem with Askren thinking he can/would everyone in the world at 170 though. Why fault anyone for being confident?


I'm not faulting him for being confident, I'm offering a realistic analysis on his chance against the top 5 based on a guy with holes who was dropped by Jay Hieron (I seem to remember)


Alright, it just seems like mma fans do this a lot when fighters say they can beat people like that. Askren is probably saying it for attention more than anything else though.


I would love to see him get his shot, I'm not against him doing that he's more than talented enough to make it to the top 5 in the UFC, after that his lack of striking sinks his ship. All the top guys who lack a top mastered element have sunk after losing to GSP. Only Koscheck has remained and he is faultering as is evidence with Lawler.

Kos never did well against the elite of top 5 welterweights either though. Has Askren fought any good wrestlers?

I think he could beat a lot of guys in the UFC but may need generous stylistic matchups. Phone Post

 

Well that's what I mean, Koscheck stuck for one reason or another but got his second shiot that's more than all of the other's can say except Hughes. And now even a guy on the fringe on the top 10 dropped him early stoppage or not.

 

And I agree, but for askren the lower top ten are probably all favorable to a wrestle fuck until he runs into a Koscheck who can match his wrestling and strike with him, Koscheck may not be top 5 well rounded but he's at least 6-8 or so well rounded and enough to stop Askren unless his age is showing at this point.

3/18/13 11:47 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Anderson Emelianenko GOAT - Askren is a lot different than Hendricks. Hendricks is all about knocking you out, and used his wrestling only recently to mix it up.

Askren is all about laying on you, so I think he can nullify anything Condit does off his back, because that's Askren strong point, being a super blanket.

I think it'd be similar to Fitch vs Erick, but not as one sided towards the end.

It's not an unreasonable view of it, I'd like to think Condit could get up but you could be right

3/18/13 11:53 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Edited: 03/18/13 11:55 PM
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I'm not even sure Askren has faced a guy with a lick of ability to get back up except Heiron who did and arguably could have had his hand raised.

Hieron was his glimpse of a guy who is apparently fringe UFC material at this point and had to squeak a decision out.

Hieron is not even a particularly well rounded guy he's a Gym beast with adequate skills everywhere else.

The rest of Askren's competition have been specialists with unremarkable skills in other places and one thing Askren seems to eat "bottom game specialists for lunch" so anyone expecting to land a sub is delusional at this point. Your best bet is to get back up at all costs like Hieron

3/19/13 12:04 AM
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Willin
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ChaosOverkill - 
Willin - 

Perhaps wiggum could chime in here, but who would win in a pure wrestling match, Askren or Hendricks?

 

I'd imagine it'd be close at the least. Add in the fact that Hendricks can knock anyone's head off and Askren throws strikes about as well as Jon Jones does in bowling and the OP is onto something...

 

 


Regardless of who has the purer wrestling skill, Johnny would be able to get up and no one is stopping his blitzes right now


I don't even like Askren but if you watch clips of him wrestling in college he's extremely hard to escape from. He specializes in scramble wrestling, ergo the moniker of Funky. Granted, I think Johny could keep it standing with strikes and sprawls but if Askren did get on top somehow I don't see Hendricks having an easy time getting up. 

3/19/13 12:05 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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BadMon - 

Also keep in mind, this is MMA not wrestling where you begin the wrestling match locking horns.  There's no punches or knees to prevent you from closing the distance.

 

This is why Askren's wrestling in MMA could be better than Johnny's.  Askren has a longer reach and taller.  He can utilize his wrestling better in MMA just like Jon Jones does.  When you're short, all you got is a single or double.


Askren really hasn't had tht tested yet though. at this point his reach is not one of his tools. Jon seemed to develop that very early and uses it very well despite not being an elite striker yet.

 

Right now, I see no evidence Hendricks couldn't be succesful blitzing him as Askren probably doesn't even have circling or backing up in angles as muscle memory yet

3/19/13 12:05 AM
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Willin
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BadMon - 

Also keep in mind, this is MMA not wrestling where you begin the wrestling match locking horns.  There's no punches or knees to prevent you from closing the distance.

 

This is why Askren's wrestling in MMA could be better than Johnny's.  Askren has a longer reach and taller.  He can utilize his wrestling better in MMA just like Jon Jones does.  When you're short, all you got is a single or double.


Chael Sonnen would suggest that there are only 2 or 3 takedowns that translate effectively to MMA. Attempting the single leg is fruitless in his opinion and the double is most effective hence GSP's success. That's all Johny would need. Askren would be in fear of Hendricks' striking power. 

3/19/13 12:06 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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Willin - 
ChaosOverkill - 
Willin - 

Perhaps wiggum could chime in here, but who would win in a pure wrestling match, Askren or Hendricks?

 

I'd imagine it'd be close at the least. Add in the fact that Hendricks can knock anyone's head off and Askren throws strikes about as well as Jon Jones does in bowling and the OP is onto something...

 

 


Regardless of who has the purer wrestling skill, Johnny would be able to get up and no one is stopping his blitzes right now


I don't even like Askren but if you watch clips of him wrestling in college he's extremely hard to escape from. He specializes in scramble wrestling, ergo the moniker of Funky. Granted, I think Johny could keep it standing with strikes and sprawls but if Askren did get on top somehow I don't see Hendricks having an easy time getting up. 


WOuldn't be easy but i doubt in the first he lands his first shot and that's more than Johnny need as we have seen

3/19/13 12:12 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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Edited: 03/19/13 12:12 AM
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Actually scratch that Askren's reach is 71inches, his reach isn't that much longer at all than Johnny's 69 and in fact MUCH MUCH shorter than GSP's 76

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Askren


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