UnderGround Forums
 

S&C UnderGround >> Kettlebells and forearm impact.


3/20/13 1:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MushroomHead
308 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/4/02
Posts: 9428
 
Been trying to learn kettlebell exercises and I'm having a real hard time with the clean and especially the snatch with the forearm impact.

Seems like "punching through" the top of the lift, like trying to quickly slip your hand into a glove, is a piece of advice I've heard several times but I'm still getting a significant impact.

Ideas or advice? Phone Post
3/20/13 1:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MushroomHead
308 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/4/02
Posts: 9429
And I've been trying to learn with a light 20 lb kettlebell. Phone Post
3/20/13 1:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bull neck
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 437
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65DfbwIxhgM - the clean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewh3fbZWcdg
3/21/13 12:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MushroomHead
308 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/4/02
Posts: 9445
I dunno. My swing is good, and I tried doing like the video-alternating swings and cleans- but I'm still getting significant forearm impact. Phone Post
3/21/13 12:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Badmonkey
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/15/07
Posts: 8245
It takes time and practice.. try to suspect the impact to your forearm and give ever so slightly when it happens. With time and practice you wont notice it anymore. Phone Post
3/21/13 2:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
perrogoma
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/31/06
Posts: 15
suck your shoulder into socket and punch through as the bell archs over your fist. make sure you grip the bell hard as it's about to make contact and your forearm muscle will take more impact. also, make sure you're getting enough power through your hips, the snatch takes more hip power than a swing, i find if there isn't enough hip power and the bell slows down at the top of the movement and swings down with gravity it tends to impact my forearm more, where if there is plenty of hip power it makes the "punching" movement easier and there isn't much forearm impact at all.

pavel tsatsouline's video "enter the kettlebell" goes over many beneficial tips for the snatch and the other core kettlebell exercises.

with practice hopefully you'll find a groove that works for you
3/21/13 2:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bull neck
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 438
You're waiting too long. If you wait until the bell is at it's highest point and allow it come around your hand it's going to smash you. The clean part happens at about waist high. At that point your upper arm is still roughly in contact with your rib cage (never needs to come off for cleans) and your arm is kind of in a hammer curl position with thumb up/ palm in. Shove your hand through the handle there and allow the power of your swing to drive the bell to the rack. But do the clean motion early and faster. Your choice is to either wait for the bell to come around your hand at it's highest and fastest point in the arc, or you put your hand around the bell.

The snatch - the hand drive happens at about head height. You're bent arm here, again with the swing having driven the bell up and just need to push your hand around the handle. The power of the swing floats the bell up into place overhead.

The arcs of each lift are different - swing is obviously totally straight arm. The clean is very tight - the upper arm doesn't even move away from the body. The snatch is halfway between the two.
3/22/13 9:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Shanle929
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/19/13
Posts: 41
Your pinching through isn't explosive enough is my guess if your technique is correct. Phone Post
3/22/13 12:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
vermonter
112 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12503
When watching Cotter do this, his punching through happens somewhere around shoulder level and the bell is mostly horizontal when it happens, so gravity doesn't cause the bell to crash into your forearm.

He also holds the handle very low on the hand. The fingers really only pinch the handle a bit, and the thumb keeps it there.
3/22/13 7:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sinful1
328 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/1/13
Posts: 27
used to happen to me when I fisrt stated now it usually happens to me when I'm getting really tired. Just got the Extreme Kettlebell Workout, Starting tomorrow. hopefully I learn how to do it properly myself.
3/22/13 7:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
159 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6618

I am certainly not a KB expert, but I perfected the "punch" after watching a video by Jason C. Brown. It helped a lot. I can also do the more "rotational" versions. I've found ways to make both work for me. As I said, I'm not a KB expert. never had any official training on them etc, so take that for what it's worth.

TAKU 

3/24/13 2:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SidRon
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/5/06
Posts: 1498
Kettlebells are clearly better for performing the standard swing beneath your legs but for most other exercises aren't dumbells just as good?
3/24/13 7:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
159 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6626

SidRon,

I don't really feel that they are any better for swings either. IMHO they are essentially the same. The only difference with KB's is that they require a specific skill set to use them. Not better, or worse, just different.

TAKU

3/24/13 9:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bull neck
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 439
Kettlebells are a pendulum. Pendulums swing better than an object designed to sit still like a dumbbell.

I'd also argue that all lifting requires a specific skill set if you do it right.
3/25/13 11:29 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
vermonter
112 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12516
bull neck - Kettlebells are a pendulum. Pendulums swing better than an object designed to sit still like a dumbbell.

I'd also argue that all lifting requires a specific skill set if you do it right.

Interesting.

For the sake of the swing exercise, KB's are no more of a pendulum than your arm itself with any weight at the end.

Additionally, there is no obvious benefit to adding another pundulum with your hand as the pivot point such that, the implement doesn't "sit still." I.E. in what way does adding another pendulum to the movement make it "swing better"?
3/25/13 1:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
159 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6629

Vermonter is correct.

During a swing, the KB stays (essentially) motionless. It's handle configuration factors out. Now, during the KB snatch, etc the shape of the KB is what determines it's skill-set specifics compared to a DB. Again, one is not better or worse, just different.

TAKU 

P.S. You said: "I'd also argue that all lifting requires a specific skill set if you do it right." I agree, even strength machines require a certain skill-set to use them properly.

 

3/25/13 4:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bull neck
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 440
Swing a 40kg dumbbell two handed then get back to me about how well that worked for you vs using a 40kg kb. Better yet, try 2 x 30kg dbs. There are just some things about kettlebells that make swinging them better than using other equipment.

3/25/13 5:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
vermonter
112 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/25/13 5:21 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12536
bull neck - Swing a 40kg dumbbell two handed then get back to me about how well that worked for you vs using a 40kg kb. Better yet, try 2 x 30kg dbs. There are just some things about kettlebells that make swinging them better than using other equipment.


I wouldn't want to do either one of those things, but for the sake of argument I'll say that at any given poundage the dumbell would be both easier. and simpler to perform. It has a shorter lever, reduced grip requirement, and a lower technical need. You can also squat lower with a DB, although I suppose you'd have less momentum out of the bottom possition, but you'd also have less to overcome at the top...

I'm also not really sure why someone would use two 30kg dumbells to compare to a 40kg kettlebell either, but that point is, perhaps, moot.

I understand that you prefer KB's for swings, and that's fine, but I don't think there's any good reason to use one over another. i will admit i'm not about to enter myself into the National Multi-Implement Swinging Tournament any time soon, so my choice may be somewhat flavored by indifference.
3/25/13 6:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
159 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6630
Again, I agree with Vermonter on this one.
 
I am an "Atheist" when it comes to strength / fitness tools. They each may or may not have their place depending on many factors. As such I am also indifferent to KB's as a tool.
 
I am all about freedom of choice as well as the idea of "do what you like, and like what you do". But outside of that, most of what is said about KB's is marketing and hype. They are not special in any way.
 
It always seems funny to me how people cannot separate themselves from their choices in "toys". I am in no way attacking anyone on a personal level by saying that KB's are nothing special.
 
Do you really think that a blob of metal with a handle on one side, possesses some special properties that are far removed from a stick with metal discs on two sides?
 
lol...
 
TAKU
 
3/26/13 2:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bull neck
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/26/13 2:31 AM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 441
I don't think they're magical at all. But I also don't think that if you're not into them that you should be offering advice on them. That's like me saying, "I don't do karate but let me help you with your kata". <br /><br />The point about the 2x30kgs DBs was that you can swing 2 x 32kg KBs no problem. No way you'd be able to do that with two DBs. <br /><br />If you're not into them that's fine. But offering advice about something you have limited experience in, or making fun of someone who doesn't feel the same way, is lame.
3/26/13 9:49 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
159 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6635

bull neck,

I am not making fun of anyone. That's the point. I am also not offering any specific advice re: KB's. I mentioned my experience with learning which allowed me to not bang my arm. I also mentioned a source of information I found useful. 

I don't think your Karate example applies. there is nowhere in this thread that I offered specific recommendations on technique, form, mechanics of movement etc.

In the post directly above your last one, I said: "I am all about freedom of choice as well as the idea of "do what you like, and like what you do".

My other statements were personal observations and not directed at anyone in particular. I thought I made that clear when I said: "I am in no way attacking anyone on a personal level by saying that KB's are nothing special."

PAU for NOW

TAKU

3/26/13 1:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
LiftStrong
35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/15/08
Posts: 3584
To the original question, make sure you are punching through while the weight is still on its way up. Punching at the top of your movement wont do much to absorb force.

I dont use kettlebells for much other than spiked or band resisted swings and bottoms up work. If you arent going bottoms up, I find dumbells are superior to kettlebells for snatches, cleans, TGU's and they are just as good for swings.

Use them if you like but if I was having issues with forearm impact and had dumbells readily available, I would stop using the kettlebells.
3/29/13 1:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
vermonter
112 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12547
Taku - 
Again, I agree with Vermonter on this one.
 
I am an "Atheist" when it comes to strength / fitness tools. They each may or may not have their place depending on many factors. As such I am also indifferent to KB's as a tool.
 
I am all about freedom of choice as well as the idea of "do what you like, and like what you do". But outside of that, most of what is said about KB's is marketing and hype. They are not special in any way.
 
It always seems funny to me how people cannot separate themselves from their choices in "toys". I am in no way attacking anyone on a personal level by saying that KB's are nothing special.
 
Do you really think that a blob of metal with a handle on one side, possesses some special properties that are far removed from a stick with metal discs on two sides?
 
lol...
 
TAKU
 

I'd say "Agnostic" might be better.

That said, you sound more like a "Fitness Hippie" after that post. Bwaahahahahaha
3/29/13 1:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
vermonter
112 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12548
Bull Neck - But I also don't think that if you're not into them that you should be offering advice on them. That's like me saying, "I don't do karate but let me help you with your kata".


I'm not sure if your post is directed at me in part (or whole) but it seems to be, so i'll respond.

I haven't offered any advice, merely a description of how a well known KB coach uses them (a coach who, incidentially, believes that KB's are not as good for strength as other weight implements). I do not see where you have disagreed with that description either, so if there is some issue you are welcome to address it.

In regards to our side discussion, there has been no advice either.

The point about the 2x30kgs DBs was that you can swing 2 x 32kg KBs no problem. No way you'd be able to do that with two DBs.


Again, I do not believe there's any good reason to do either of these things other than it's something you enjoy. If enjoyment is the primary purpose, than a person should choose whichever implement they enjoy the most. For you that might be KB's which is cool. I'll probably skip this one altogether because athletically i don't find swinging of any particular value over other exercises irrespective of the implement used, hence my joke about indifference.

To that end, from an experience standpoint, i'll defer to you.

But offering advice about something you have limited experience in, or making fun of someone who doesn't feel the same way, is lame.


Once again, not sure if this is for me, but the only person i've made fun of on this thread is Taku when I called him a fitness hippie. But he's a big boy, so i'm not worried about how he'll take that.

I do many exercises because I enjoy them, and as you'll see in reading my responses to you, its clear that our preferences are different. As such, i'm not discussing why someone should have some preference or other, but rather why "Pendulums swing better" is in no way a refutation of Taku's original assertion.

Even with a lot of logical, factual or semantical leeway, I don't really see how your point is valid right up until your assertion about swinging two relatively heavy KB's versus two similarly weighted DB's. You might well be right, I don't know. Per my acknowledgement in the prior post, I am unable to accept or refute you here due to my lack of experience in swinging two relatively heavy implements simultaneously. Although your point here might actually be perfectly valid and perfectly factual, I don't find it to be at all important and so i have nothing more to say about it.

But come on, you didn't think the swinging competition joke was funny? It made me chuckle...
3/29/13 2:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MushroomHead
308 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/4/02
Posts: 9541
Whoa, shit got real in this thread.



Anyways, thanks to everyone who contributed. I've snatches down pat now. Still getting considerable impact with cleans though. I've got Pavel's kettlebellal dvd and the Art of Strength kettlebell clinic coming to me, so maybe I'll be able to pick something up I wasn't able to find on YouTube. Phone Post

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.