UnderGround Forums
 

BJJGround Forum >> The old Gi-No Gi debate


3/20/13 5:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Superman84
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/12/12
Posts: 19
 
Hi,

I know the whole Gi-No Gi debate is getting old on this forum, so apologies for bringing it up again.

I've been training for over 15 years. First in Judo and Sambo when I was younger. I then moved to Japan trained at various Shooto gyms and since college i've trained almost exclusively no gi sub grappling. I have loads of good level BJJ friends that I train with also. I'm just not interested in training with the gi anymore. I don't have a formal BJJ grade but have been competing for awhile.

I understand the view of the BJJ community relating to the importance of the gi.

Is there anyone else of this forum who no longer trains with a Gi and has been training and competing for many years? Are you similar in that you don't have a huge interest in gaining a formal rank?

I know we are seeing lots of no-gi BJJ black belts being created in recent years. What are the views on this?

I also see the trend that if someone is successful in MMA they eventually get awarded a BJJ Blackbelt by someone. Almost like PR for spreading the art? Controversial?

Any thoughts?
3/20/13 6:47 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Shemhazai
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/27/08
Posts: 728
I think that you have the most to gain by training in the gi at an early stage, since the gi sharpens your defensive movements, e.g. shrimping to guard, escapes, grip fighting etc. - whereas no gi for the most part sharpens your offensive skills. Once you've built a good foundation in the gi, continuing with no gi only is fine if that's what you want, IMO.
3/20/13 7:07 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PayItForward
139 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/4/02
Posts: 14754
i agree w shemhazai...

1. i believe training in a gi will sharpen your defense.
2. i believe no gi will hone other skills like over/underhooks, scrambling, attacking.


i love both. i don't think you have to do gi later on but i do because it's fun. plain and simple, it's a fun game and more conducive to longevity. no gi is a faster game usually and that means chances for more damage to body.

as for getting rank, i don't care about that. i could not care less if i did no gi or gi and didn't get ranked.

i do however feel that if one chooses to do no gi, then they are submission wrestlers. you don't get rank. it shouldn't matter, but you don't need rank.

you don't see guys like cael sanderson calling themselves black belts in wrestling or Gable walking around w/ a red belt.

do something because you love it. skill and respect will follow if you do it right and if you never wear a nice colorful belt around your waist for it or a 60 dollar colored rashguard for it, you're doing just fine anyways.
3/20/13 7:08 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PayItForward
139 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/4/02
Posts: 14755
as for getting rank for the sake of competing in ibjj comps, then i guess that's a point to think of...

in that case, where the org. doesn't recognize unranked folks, then i would seek out a legit bb that will recognize the skill and rank accordingly for the sake of entering tournaments.
3/20/13 7:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Superman84
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/12/12
Posts: 20
Anyone here black belt level, but has only ever trained no gi?
Or no longer trains gi?
3/20/13 9:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HoldYerGround
150 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/08
Posts: 3041
The gi is just a tool to use in your training. It can really help students grasp the game in the early stages of training, but as you advance it can easily make your nogi game worse.

It blows me away that elite level athletes like Rashad Evans catch flak for getting ranked without training much, if at all, in a gi, when super one dimensional sport players like the Miyaos have people complaining they are sandbaggers even if the Miyaos probably couldn't even spell "takedown". Phone Post
3/20/13 10:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
chitownbjj
20 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/13/05
Posts: 1072
Superman84 - Anyone here black belt level, but has only ever trained no gi?
Or no longer trains gi?
Ari Bolden Phone Post
3/20/13 11:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
misterw
5 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/1/08
Posts: 640
the avellans
3/20/13 12:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
liquidrob
115 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/9/02
Posts: 9851
Its about how you train IMO, if you train sloppy than your game will be sloppy, gi or no gi, gi just hides the sloppyness more

Its a little harder to not get "sloppy" in no gi, but that's how the game looks sometimes, do you think wrestlers are sloppy and lack technique? They grapple without a gi, also everyone who trains exclusively no gi doesn't always slip out or power out of moves

Umm, I don't think this post had much to do with the thread, just rambling, but Chris Brennan dropped the gi at blue belt I believe, cuo is a no gi black belt but he has started to train the gi again
3/20/13 12:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
liquidrob
115 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/20/13 12:30 PM
Member Since: 9/9/02
Posts: 9852
Adam Sachnoff posts here, he just won the ADCC trails and is a no gi brown I believe, not sure if he has any gi training
3/20/13 12:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tarado Safado
475 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/21/02
Posts: 2676
HoldYerGround -  The gi is just a tool to use in your training. It can really help students grasp the game in the early stages of training, but as you advance it can easily make your nogi game worse.

It blows me away that elite level athletes like Rashad Evans catch flak for getting ranked without training much, if at all, in a gi, when super one dimensional sport players like the Miyaos have people complaining they are sandbaggers even if the Miyaos probably couldn't even spell "takedown". Phone Post

VTFU for your crack about "even if the Miyaos probably couldn't even spell "takedown""

lol
3/20/13 12:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
trianglinho
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/29/10
Posts: 302
I should start training more no gi. Imma start doing atleast 2 no gi classes/week.
3/20/13 12:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Team Python
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/17/10
Posts: 451
Train both......Gi = leave gi top on.........no-gi = take the gi top off

No go training is for Vale-Tudo at my school......
3/20/13 2:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JarringJarred
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/22/11
Posts: 203
I'm of the opinion that gi and no-gi grappling (or BJJ, SW, etc) are different, but related sports. If you prefer training one style, great. If you like training both, even better. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages and proficiency in one does not always guarantee similar proficiency in the other. If you care about gaining skill, or belt rank, in one sport/martial art you should be training that style.

There are many different striking styles and each has own advantages and disadvantages. You can be a badass in one style, but get killed by another style depending on the rule set. Grappling is the same: each style has different rules and priorities. A BJJ usually doesn't do very well wrestling against a wrestler, but not does a wrestler fare well against a BJJ guy in the gi. If you choose to focus on certain skills and styles, then you will inevitably have some weaknesses or gaps.

Basically, train how you want to train and understand that different styles will give you different skills. Phone Post
3/20/13 2:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
demandango
26 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 18398
most people are not capable of reaching as high a technical level without training the gi. it is possible, but it requires discipline and wisdom.

as stated, the gi sharpens defense, which is more important than offense in bjj.

i advocate training both.
3/20/13 3:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JarringJarred
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/22/11
Posts: 204
One other comment to make.

I think a pitfall of some no-gi grappling styles that lack an established rank system is that it is more difficult to know if your instructor is legitimate. All arguments about watering down belts and some people not deserving belts aside, having an established rank system makes it easier to know if someone is legit. Wrestling, generally, uses competition prowess and experience as a measure of skill/knowledge. Various other systems use belts. Having a way to judge skill and knowledge based on rank (be it belt rank or some other measure to denote skill) makes it easier for a beginner to know if an instructor is legit.

I have trained with too many people that "trained no-gi for years" and had the skill level of BJJ white/early-blue belts (in no-gi grappling) to think that there isn't a lot of lackluster "no-gi" instruction occuring. Perhaps it is just differences between styles (securing position before submission vs. attack from any position), but I hate seeing people that have clearly wasted time under a BS instructor. Train whatever system you enjoy, but make sure that your instructor is legit.
3/20/13 4:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Herbish1
5 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/10
Posts: 725
I like training both, but I believe the gi keeps you honest. If you are used to just powering out of subs in no gi, you'll be in trouble with the gi. And if you are used to relying on the friction of the gi to finish subs, in no gi guys will be slipping out over and over. Phone Post
3/20/13 5:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
zunk1
11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/3/08
Posts: 2781

i'm a purple belt in no gi that didn't put a gi on until this year. i can say i think it helps when i go back to no gi i'm more aware of exact positioning of my hands etc. I think in no gi you can play it fast and loose and i never really had to nail down technique i could do things sort of sloppy and have success on lower belts and couldn't find out why i wasn't progressing against more challenging opponents. After wearing the gi i am aware of everything more. 

3/20/13 5:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Team Python
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/17/10
Posts: 453
Plus you lose a few attacks by not training with a gi, i.e. collar chokes and Ezekiel chokes for street fighting.....and yes I have used collar chokes in a street fight several times.
3/20/13 5:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bjjudo
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/12
Posts: 391
Getting good fast is all about efficiency and consistentcy, repeating the same moves over and over while live rolling.

Imo you can learn/belt up faster training nogi as there is less stalling and moves to learn. Plus everything you learn will translate over. Phone Post

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.