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UnderGround Forums >> Michael Paige pioneering point fighting in MMA


3/22/13 4:31 PM
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MixedMartialArts.com
 

Mixed martial arts was born in 1993, with the intention of proving that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu worked well in a real fight against other martial arts.

It worked real well.

In fact, it worked so well that for a while, little else was deemed to work at all. But then Dan Severn and Mark Coleman proved that wrestlng could be a formidable base in MMA. And for a while, people thought that the grappling arts were all that worked.

Then Maurice Smith kicked a few people including Mark Coleman in the face, and having a base in kickboxing was a proven path to MMA success.

Since then, a number of pioneers have widened the number of martial arts that can be used as a base in MMA.

Tank Abbott showed that street fighting could be formidable, especially if you could bench 600 pounds.

Fedor Emelianenko showed that Combat Sambo was not just a good base, it could be used to beat everyone on the planet.

Lyoto Machida famously said "Karate is back," and took the UFC lighheavyweight title without losing a round, using as his base Shotokan karate.

There are also a variety of martial arts, some of them among the world's most popular, that have no exponents of note in MMA. This is not to say that no notable MMA fighter has done for example Aikido; rather there is not a single notable fighter in MMA using Aikido as a base.

The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base.

This is not to disparage Taekwondo, which has admirably provided conditioning, discipline, and confidence to countless millions of people worldwide. It is not even to dispute that, as Fred Simmons opined "Tae Kwon Do.. is also a deadly serious killing system."

That is a different discussion.

It is frequently said that the style of martial art is not important, it is the person using it that matters. This isn't true. The style of martial art you practice, and whether or not you practice whatever it is against active resistance, has very practical consequences. Bleeding a lot, for example.

The most popular martial art in the USA is probably sport or "point" karate, sometimes referred to derively as "What's the Point?" karate. A cross between kickboxing and fencing, Players wear foam hand, foot, and headgear, and try to land a controlled, clean shot on one another, without being hit in return. When a clean blow is thought to land, the action is stopped, and judges simultaneously vote on whether or the punch or kick in fact landed.

After 20 years, point fighting appears to have an exponent who could break through into the upper ranks of the world's fastest growing sport.

Now competing out of London Shootfighters, 23-year-old Michael "Venom" Paige uses the stance, footwork, techniques, and strategy of point fighting to thus far dramatic effect in MMA. The Englishman stays on the outside, well out even of lunging range, and use remarkable speed and timing to land a dsitinctively executed clean shot.

His speed is such that during his Bellator fight with Bangor, ME fighter Ryan Sanders, people thought something fishy was going on.

As can be seen in the below gif from bloodyelbow, the shot landed cleanly.

747928803_medium

In the video below, Paige explains a little more about his approach.

 What do you think UG? Pretty cool striker and I hope more come along, or terrific athlete who would be better off punching and kicking like everyone else?


3/22/13 4:44 PM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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Page is a BEAST!! Phone Post
3/22/13 4:56 PM
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iLL13
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"pioneering" ha
3/22/13 5:08 PM
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kalclash the mighty
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Here's a highlights video of MVP if anyone's interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-35biwOrPI

Definitely a prospect for the future and very electrifying. He's also a very humble guy outside of his fight persona. Phone Post
3/22/13 5:19 PM
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MdGeist
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"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.

3/22/13 5:20 PM
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Fyuk Yu
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I get pumped every time this guy fights already. Hopefully he gets some better opponents soon to give him a better test.
3/22/13 5:40 PM
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stonepony
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"You come to the body, you come to the head, and you get out of the way. Look at 'em, they're just standing there."

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/apr/boxboxbox.jpg

Yeah he's right. Standing still and taking damage isn't intelligent. Reminds me of colonial soldiers lining up in a field and firing musket volleys at each other from close distance. Because to duck or use cover would be cowardly.
3/22/13 5:46 PM
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Kirik
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The UnderGround, Mayor
MdGeist - 

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.


Anthony Pettis's base in MMA is Duke Roufus kickboxing. The kicks, the strikes, the strategy, the stance he employs are all Duke Roufus kickboxing.

3/22/13 5:48 PM
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Kirik
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Edited: 03/22/13 5:51 PM
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Paulinethepope - 
MdGeist -

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.

Doesn't Benson have a tkd base aswell? Or was he wrestling first? Phone Post

 

Base is not a reference to what fight sport the person first achieved success in, it is a reference to the techniques, strategy, etc that he or she uses as a base while doing MMA. Benson Henderson is out their doing wrestling, and kickboxing. He did throw an axe kick, once, but it did not land to effect.

The actual techniques and strategies that define TKD, that differentiate it from Shotokan, or boxing, or kickboxing, are not evident in Henderson's fight style.

3/22/13 5:49 PM
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stonepony
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Kirik - 
MdGeist - 

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.


Anthony Pettis's base in MMA is Duke Roufus kickboxing. The kicks, the strikes, the strategy, the stance he employs are all Duke Roufus kickboxing.


Joe Rogan was a great TKD champion, and he's the first tell people that TKD isn't practical and isn't a good base.
3/22/13 5:53 PM
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MdGeist
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Paulinethepope - 
MdGeist -

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.

Doesn't Benson have a tkd base aswell? Or was he wrestling first? Phone Post

Yep Benson does. Anderson has his blackbelt in TKD as well.

Its just that Benson has evolved into more of a grappler. But if TKD was the first syle he learned, he probably still approaches all other martial arts training with with the same fundementals he learned in TKD.

3/22/13 5:57 PM
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ajl416az
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so far all he's done is prove that a dynamic athlete can knock out bums


no good striker is going to let him tee off, he just hasn't found any of those guys yet.
3/22/13 6:20 PM
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MdGeist
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Edited: 03/22/13 6:20 PM
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Kirik - 
MdGeist - 

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.


Anthony Pettis's base in MMA is Duke Roufus kickboxing. The kicks, the strikes, the strategy, the stance he employs are all Duke Roufus kickboxing.

 


Of course he's not going to come into an MMA fight hopping up and down with his arms at this side like he's in a sport TKD match but his TKD  base and fundementals are subtly apparent in his fighting style.

 

His kicking technique had to be tweaked a little bit but its not like they just abondoned his TKD when he made the transition to MMA.

 

3/22/13 6:27 PM
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Ecostar
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Paulinethepope -
MdGeist -

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.

Doesn't Benson have a tkd base aswell? Or was he wrestling first? Phone Post
Yes Benson has a taekwondo base as does Pettis and Anderson Silva. Phone Post
3/22/13 6:29 PM
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Ecostar
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MdGeist -
Kirik - 
MdGeist - 

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.


Anthony Pettis's base in MMA is Duke Roufus kickboxing. The kicks, the strikes, the strategy, the stance he employs are all Duke Roufus kickboxing.

 


Of course he's not going to come into an MMA fight hopping up and down with his arms at this side like he's in a sport TKD match but his TKD  base and fundementals are subtly apparent in his fighting style.

 

His kicking technique had to be tweaked a little bit but its not like they just abondoned his TKD when he made the transition to MMA.

 

Pettis is Taekwondo. Phone Post
3/22/13 7:13 PM
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Hikikomori
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Why do mma fans continue to shit on TMA? Machida, Anderson, and Pettis destroyed the "this won't work in MMA" stuff. Lol people used to even say boxing wouldn't work in MMA and that the jab was useless and even detrimental to the fighter utilizing it. Phone Post
3/22/13 7:21 PM
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Bloodstorm
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Wonder Boy Thompson isn't ranked but has a sport karate and kickboxing base.
3/22/13 8:06 PM
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smoogy
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Kirik - 
MdGeist - 

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.


Anthony Pettis's base in MMA is Duke Roufus kickboxing. The kicks, the strikes, the strategy, the stance he employs are all Duke Roufus kickboxing.


"Anthony's a 3rd degree TKD Black Belt. He started training seriously in Kickboxing at 18."

-Duke Roufus
3/22/13 8:36 PM
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Doctor Snuggles
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I don't think some of you dudes understand what "base" means. How much of your base you apply in mma, has nothing to do with what your base is. However, MVP seems to be able to utilize a lot of his already acquired skills with not too much adaptation. Similarly to perhaps Machida, who is the closest thing we come to at a high level.
3/22/13 8:48 PM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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He's a goddamn flawless kickboxer. Superior technique to even andy. But that and equally flawless (so far) tdd....which is a good start. At 23, the kid has everything it takes to eventually be a p4per in the ufc. Bellator better keep him. Hes like wonderboy but better athlete and 8yrs younger.
3/22/13 8:49 PM
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mmavixen
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Edited: 03/22/13 8:52 PM
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I don't know about "bases" and so forth, but I do know that this kid is exciting to watch.

I can't wait to see him again!

3/22/13 8:49 PM
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Kirik
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MdGeist - 
Kirik - 
MdGeist - 

"The same thing is true of the world's most popular martial art - Tae Kwon Do. There are a number of fighters, likely thousands, whose kicking is influenced by TKD, but there is not a single fighter in the top 20 in any weight division who uses TKD as his or her base."

I think its safe to say that the #2 ranked LW Anthony Pettis has a TKD base.


Anthony Pettis's base in MMA is Duke Roufus kickboxing. The kicks, the strikes, the strategy, the stance he employs are all Duke Roufus kickboxing.

 


Of course he's not going to come into an MMA fight hopping up and down with his arms at this side like he's in a sport TKD match but his TKD  base and fundementals are subtly apparent in his fighting style.

 

His kicking technique had to be tweaked a little bit but its not like they just abondoned his TKD when he made the transition to MMA.

 


I appreciate the correction man.

I looked for some quotes and it is unequivocal:

"Coming from a tae kwon do background, a lot of my kicks and strikes are flashy to other people. Most mixed martial artists now are either, like, kickboxers with jiu jitsu or wrestlers with boxing. I’m a tae kwon do guy who learned kickboxing and has some good ground skills. I don’t feel the need to be flashy, but once I know I got the other guy, that’s when I can do my regular moves: my jump kicks, my spin kicks. They’re my kind of regular stuff that’s been working my whole life."

3/22/13 8:50 PM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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Hes this good with only 2yrs mma training! Oh, hes 25, not 23. My bad. . Been following him for 5 yrs! Hes just a phenom.
3/22/13 8:51 PM
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Jsteven
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Bloodstorm - Wonder Boy Thompson isn't ranked but has a sport karate and kickboxing base.
This and look what happened to him when he fought an average grappler Phone Post
3/22/13 8:52 PM
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Bisping KOd by CHRIST
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He should bulk up to mw. Hed beat silva on the feet right now imo.

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