UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Kazushi Sakuraba: The Jester of MMA


3/23/13 7:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Silhouette
166 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/15/05
Posts: 2331
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

if the vitor fight was fixed it could have been handled better than Saku destroying vitors legs
3/23/13 7:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1770 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1461
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

I'm pretty sure folks made that up to excuse the fact that Vitor just flopped guard after he broke his hand.

But he did pretty much the same thing in his second fight with Overeem too.

3/23/13 7:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Condit's Face Broke My Hand
558 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/29/11
Posts: 13236
Jack Slack -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

I'm pretty sure folks made that up to excuse the fact that Vitor just flopped guard after he broke his hand.

But he did pretty much the same thing in his second fight with Overeem too.

He kept doing it against Jon Jones too. Phone Post
3/23/13 7:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Condit's Face Broke My Hand
558 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/29/11
Posts: 13237
Silhouette -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

if the vitor fight was fixed it could have been handled better than Saku destroying vitors legs
Yeah you would think Vitor would give up a submission Phone Post
3/23/13 7:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
benjininja
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/22/09
Posts: 1107
in for my GOAT
3/23/13 7:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1770 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/23/13 7:12 PM
Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1462
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

I'm pretty sure folks made that up to excuse the fact that Vitor just flopped guard after he broke his hand.

But he did pretty much the same thing in his second fight with Overeem too.

He kept doing it against Jon Jones too. Phone Post

 

Dude has a weird lack of desire. In the first round it looked like a surprise tactic, but every other round it just looked like he didn't want to be there - just like in his fights with Saku and Overeem.

 

3/23/13 7:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1770 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1463
Silhouette - jack i love your striking articles but there is a lot of misinformation in this one IMO

Saku didnt really ever use a "turk", a turk would be lifting the leg high with his heel to the sky. He hooked renzos leg because thats the way they came down after the turn and coming off the ropes, and most catch guys routinely hit the kimura from there as when he tapped Royler it started in half guard.

when he tapped royler he was in north south, and the sub came from a pass attempt from half guard, he locked it up and methodically moved to side to north south

Saku did not routinely give his back up, against randleman he was tripped then slammed, early in the fight it was a failed kick, against renzo he bounced off the ropes after a sweep attempt. He was a wrestler, so he came up to all fours, but he never "gave up" his back.

Against Royce the almost kneebar you talk about was hit off a failed takedown attempt by royce. Saku dropped his hips as if to hit a sit out then grabbed the knee from there. Saku was hunting the kneebar early from a lot of scrambles

Saku was a master of always having good positioning, to say he put himself in calculated danger is just wrong imo, He was always in good position and putting his opponents in bad situations

Cheers man, I enjoyed reading this. 

I don't write a lot about grappling because I have nowhere near the pedigree - this was more me writing as a crazed Sakuraba fan! ;)

3/23/13 7:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sakuraba belt
14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/7/10
Posts: 478
Hah, Im glad you included the Randleman kimura, its one of my favourite Sakuraba finishes.
3/23/13 7:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Silhouette
166 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/23/13 7:28 PM
Member Since: 11/15/05
Posts: 2332
Jack Slack - 
Silhouette - jack i love your striking articles but there is a lot of misinformation in this one IMO

Saku didnt really ever use a "turk", a turk would be lifting the leg high with his heel to the sky. He hooked renzos leg because thats the way they came down after the turn and coming off the ropes, and most catch guys routinely hit the kimura from there as when he tapped Royler it started in half guard.

when he tapped royler he was in north south, and the sub came from a pass attempt from half guard, he locked it up and methodically moved to side to north south

Saku did not routinely give his back up, against randleman he was tripped then slammed, early in the fight it was a failed kick, against renzo he bounced off the ropes after a sweep attempt. He was a wrestler, so he came up to all fours, but he never "gave up" his back.

Against Royce the almost kneebar you talk about was hit off a failed takedown attempt by royce. Saku dropped his hips as if to hit a sit out then grabbed the knee from there. Saku was hunting the kneebar early from a lot of scrambles

Saku was a master of always having good positioning, to say he put himself in calculated danger is just wrong imo, He was always in good position and putting his opponents in bad situations


Cheers man, I enjoyed reading this. 



I don't write a lot about grappling because I have nowhere near the pedigree - this was more me writing as a crazed Sakuraba fan! ;)


i love your articles was just pointing out a few things i see/saw as Saku is my favorite as well

his hybrid of shoot/catch wrestling really set him apart

thanks as always for your hard work
3/23/13 7:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Condit's Face Broke My Hand
558 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/29/11
Posts: 13238
Jack Slack -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

I'm pretty sure folks made that up to excuse the fact that Vitor just flopped guard after he broke his hand.

But he did pretty much the same thing in his second fight with Overeem too.

He kept doing it against Jon Jones too. Phone Post

 

Dude has a weird lack of desire. In the first round it looked like a surprise tactic, but every other round it just looked like he didn't want to be there - just like in his fights with Saku and Overeem.

 

Yep, I felt like the fact a black belt of his level for submitted by an Americana showed he was broken. Phone Post
3/23/13 7:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SubbedZER0
344 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/30/12
Posts: 1460

zomg level sub

3/23/13 8:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1770 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1464

TTT

3/23/13 9:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
D241
9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 15099

I hate to even be discussing this regarding such a legend of a fighter but....

 

Imo, Vitor Belfort fight was totally legit.

 

However, I recently watched some old pride events and there are 2 Sakuraba fights where I did raise an eyebrow of suspician.

 

Sakuraba vs Minowaman. The ground transitions don't seem explosive and there weren't very many punches, and the ones that were thrown didn't have much on it.

 

Sakuraba vs Ken Shamrock, that also seems questionable.

 

But that's it.

 

So even IF those were worked fights, those were not that important to his legacy, and he's still a legend even IF he had 2 worked fights.

3/24/13 1:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Diesel67
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2967

 

         My style is knees to the face

 

 

                 Pride allowed knees to the head on the ground.  Wandy knees hard.

 

                               Kinda strong, eh?

 

 

           Shoulder hurts, bud?

 

                                                       Get up and take a swing at me, punk!

 

I'm a shark and your boy can't even swim!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3/24/13 4:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cumprido1
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 9749
Many of his fights look fishy.

He was still a great fighter Phone Post
3/24/13 6:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
burner22
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/17/12
Posts: 1023
Sub Phone Post
3/24/13 8:06 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bwatermyfren
25 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/5/12
Posts: 161
In Phone Post
3/24/13 8:28 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Larry Appleton
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/5/10
Posts: 12033
in Phone Post
3/24/13 12:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1770 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1465

I'm unsure of the point of your post diesel... 

fighters lose? =S

3/24/13 12:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
303 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44142
TTT Jack

Saku seems to be a forgotten man in modern MMA media, as evidenced by tons of wack greatest of all time lists without him.

We could really use one like him now, we had Sudo for a while but he left early and really wasnt on the elite level. Now, I think the Korean Zombie who may not be on the level yet but carries a lot of similarities.
3/24/13 1:00 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
303 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44143
Sak, btw was smaller than GSP in his prime (or the same size at most). He was listed as 183lbs for most of his prime years.
3/24/13 1:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
303 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44144
Will come back and read in more detail but would just add now that Sak was indeed unorthodox esp considering that BJJ was considered the standard back then (and still is today) in terms of ground grappling.

Sak was a free wrestler with Catch. He apparently did not like the guard position and he was the first fighter i think that had both strong wrestling and submissions. Hughes would later come to be as well.
3/24/13 1:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
303 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44145
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Sak has participated in fixed fights Phone Post

Yep, a loss to Kimo apparently.

If you're talking about Rampage, that guy has an excuse for everything.

I don't think the Rampage one was, but I have read that the one against Vitor was. I don't know if that is true or not though Phone Post

I'm pretty sure folks made that up to excuse the fact that Vitor just flopped guard after he broke his hand.

But he did pretty much the same thing in his second fight with Overeem too.

He kept doing it against Jon Jones too. Phone Post

Vitor broke his hand blasting the top of Sak's head. Watch the fight and tell me Vitor wasnt really trying to finish there. And then, he did acted as he has done in later fights.

Regarding the Ken fight, the stoppage may have been premature or questionable but Ken did get limp dropped. He looked genuinely upset at the stoppage as well.

I do think the ref should not have stopped the fight vs Royler and I wish that Sak would have taken Royler's arm off.
3/24/13 1:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orbit
22 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 4205
My favourite fighter of all time. An artist
3/24/13 2:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CLINTK9
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/20/05
Posts: 7573
Saku is one the ALL TIME GREATS and one of my favs for sure!

vs Vitor, not a work. Vitor unloaded on him and broke his hand, then did the Vitor give up and take a beating thing.

vs Ken, prematrue stoppage, but Pride was VERY HAPPY to let it be and ve Saku get a win over Ken Shamrock. Kenny was momentarily out, but woke up quickly and the fight could have kept going.

vs Kimo, also not a work like popular belief. Saku was new to fighting, whats to say Kimo couldnt beat him? Then having 2 interviews with Saku in Full contact fighter saying it wasnt. 2nd interview he seemed to get upset being asked that, and said "why does everyone think that, just because I lost"?

vs Minowa, possibly. Minowa has done worked fights. Super Hulk tourney was a work, with the Japs needing and trying to build their new star.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.