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UnderGround Forums >> Kazushi Sakuraba: The Jester of MMA


3/24/13 2:19 PM
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CLINTK9
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Saku is one the ALL TIME GREATS and one of my favs for sure!

vs Vitor, not a work. Vitor unloaded on him and broke his hand, then did the Vitor give up and take a beating thing.

vs Ken, prematrue stoppage, but Pride was VERY HAPPY to let it be and ve Saku get a win over Ken Shamrock. Kenny was momentarily out, but woke up quickly and the fight could have kept going.

vs Kimo, also not a work like popular belief. Saku was new to fighting, whats to say Kimo couldnt beat him? Then having 2 interviews with Saku in Full contact fighter saying it wasnt. 2nd interview he seemed to get upset being asked that, and said "why does everyone think that, just because I lost"?

vs Minowa, possibly. Minowa has done worked fights. Super Hulk tourney was a work, with the Japs needing and trying to build their new star.
3/24/13 2:53 PM
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Kneeblock
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ttt for later

3/24/13 2:59 PM
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ranier wolfcastle
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although nobody really knows who was roided and who wasnt in pride, i always assumed sak wasnt, and most of his opponents were

3/24/13 2:59 PM
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Samoa
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"vs Kimo, also not a work like popular belief. Saku was new to fighting, whats to say Kimo couldnt beat him? Then having 2 interviews with Saku in Full contact fighter saying it wasnt. 2nd interview he seemed to get upset being asked that, and said "why does everyone think that, just because I lost"?"

-------------------------------------------

Takada and Coleman denies their fight was a work as well. LOL@ an interview being proof back then. Yeah, Kimo is going to simply set the hooks from rear mount, Saku is going to do absolutely nothing to defend and he gets choked out like a white belt in his first class.

One year later he is schooling a Carlson Gracie Black belt and arm barring him.

Seems legit. Phone Post
3/24/13 3:16 PM
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CLINTK9
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Samoa -  "vs Kimo, also not a work like popular belief. Saku was new to fighting, whats to say Kimo couldnt beat him? Then having 2 interviews with Saku in Full contact fighter saying it wasnt. 2nd interview he seemed to get upset being asked that, and said "why does everyone think that, just because I lost"?"

-------------------------------------------

Takada and Coleman denies their fight was a work as well. LOL@ an interview being proof back then. Yeah, Kimo is going to simply set the hooks from rear mount, Saku is going to do absolutely nothing to defend and he gets choked out like a white belt in his first class.

One year later he is schooling a Carlson Gracie Black belt and arm barring him.

Seems legit. Phone Post

Coleman has said in more than one interview, when asked "I did what i had to do for my family" thats basically admitting it.

you know how many fights have been lost when fighters should have done this or that and didnt. because Saku didnt get out or do anything = Automatic work? and please tell me why they would work that fight in Kimo's favor?

saku elabrated a little more about the Kimo fight in those interviews as well.

So Mark hunt's losses were fixed because he's now 1 fight away from a UFC Title shot?
3/24/13 3:21 PM
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Samoa
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Explain the Mark Hunt analogy please?

Do you think the interviewer for FCF left the interview believing Saku's inference that the fight was not worked?

Explain Saku's utter indifference to rear mount and hooks against a Blue Belt at the time and then schooling a Carlson Gracie Black Belt the following year. Phone Post
3/24/13 3:26 PM
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D241
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Kimo is much larger. Saku's style is different. As stated, Sakuraba puts himself in bad positions to work to his advantage. It worked when he was against guys similar in size. I don't think it's shady that it didn't work against a huge legit guy in Kimo Leopaldo.

 

 

3/24/13 3:27 PM
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Samoa
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D241 -

Kimo is much larger. Saku's style is different. As stated, Sakuraba puts himself in bad positions to work to his advantage. It worked when he was against guys similar in size. I don't think it's shady that it didn't work against a huge legit guy in Kimo Leopaldo.

 

 

Have you seen the fight? Phone Post
3/24/13 3:28 PM
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D241
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And what validity if any does it bring IF Sakuraba vs Kimo was a work? Sakuraba LOST lol

 

Does that somehow make him great b/c he lost to Kimo, which is why it was a work? Confusing logic is confusing.

 

Now saying a win against Royce was a work, that would at least have substance as that was a fight that really got Sakuraba over the hump with all mma fans.

 

Just watch the fight and speak of where the worked parts take place.

3/24/13 3:29 PM
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D241
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It's funny myself and Clintk9 who are proven long time mma fans and big Sakuraba fans, we both have the same opinion that Ken Shamrock fight stoppage was questionable, and that the Minowaman fight looked questionable. Those were both WINS for Sakuraba.

 

And you're hanging your hat that Sakuraba had a worked fight in which he LOST why?

3/24/13 3:32 PM
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Samoa
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D241 -

And what validity if any does it bring IF Sakuraba vs Kimo was a work? Sakuraba LOST lol

 

Does that somehow make him great b/c he lost to Kimo, which is why it was a work? Confusing logic is confusing.

 

Now saying a win against Royce was a work, that would at least have substance as that was a fight that really got Sakuraba over the hump with all mma fans.

 

Just watch the fight and speak of where the worked parts take place.

No validity or invalidity at all. A worked fight is meaningless when ranking real fights. Just my belief that it was a work.

Anyone want to take a run at answering my Carlson Gracie BB question? Phone Post
3/24/13 3:38 PM
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D241
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Those headbutts @142 mark, so fake looking huh?

 

How could Sakuraba lose to a side arm choke, then go on to beat Gracies, but then later on lose via side choke to Jason Miller? Hmmm, must've been a work huh?

 

The THREE times Sakuraba lost by submission, all three were via side arm choke. Now you're telling me, the argument that Sakuraba's first ever pro fight that was a submission loss was a work, but everything else was legit?

3/24/13 3:39 PM
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D241
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Samoa, I think you are wrong that Kimo/Saku was a work. However you have made me believe that Sakuraba's weakness on the ground is side arm choke. Brilliant in most areas, weak in that one.

3/24/13 3:45 PM
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Samoa
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We will have to agree to disagree on that fight. I'm ok with that.

First fight submission loss by head and arm choke......goes years embarrassing true black belts and then loses to the same technique in the twilight of his career. I guess; if that makes sense.

Probably the fastest learning fighter ever. Gets schooled by a blue belt and then a year later makes a true black belt look like a novice. Phone Post
3/24/13 3:49 PM
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D241
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I wonder if in hindsight Royler Renzo and Royce were like....FUCK, we should've really worked on our side chokes!!

3/24/13 3:51 PM
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Samoa
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D241 -

I wonder if in hindsight Royler Renzo and Royce were like....FUCK, we should've really worked on our side chokes!!

At least one of the Gracie boys got it right. What was he? 4-2 against them? Phone Post
3/24/13 3:52 PM
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Samoa
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Saku v Renzo was a great fight. One of my favorites.......and this is from a guy who began training in Relson's Gracie's garage. Phone Post
3/24/13 3:54 PM
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Samoa
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D241 -

I wonder if in hindsight Royler Renzo and Royce were like....FUCK, we should've really worked on our side chokes!!

And Ryan Phone Post
3/24/13 4:08 PM
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D241
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I thought the reason I didn't mention Ryan was obvious :(

3/24/13 4:13 PM
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UGCTT Captain America
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For later Phone Post
3/24/13 4:13 PM
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Samoa
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What was your opinion of the Saku v Mezger fight? Phone Post
3/24/13 4:23 PM
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D241
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Ha, good bring up Samoa. Funny my very last post was in the "top 5 UFC fights that should've happened" thread and I JUST mentioned Dan Henderson vs Guy Mezger.

 

Let me first be honest and say I am old school mma fan like yourself, and I'm also from Dallas, however, I think even if I wasn't biased towards Guy since I saw him in UFC first as well as him being from Dallas, that he should've won that fight.

 

I know the specifics of that fight and THAT is a good example of a fight being favored for Sakuraba in an unjust way.  Even though Guy didn't have to fight as per the pre fight agreement, I think he could've gone that one extra round and perhaps changed history.

 

 

Pic was taken a few years ago, I think 2007. Don't make fun, I was in horrible shape then, and Guy is also standing on a 6' incline ;)

3/24/13 4:35 PM
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Samoa
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D241 -

Ha, good bring up Samoa. Funny my very last post was in the "top 5 UFC fights that should've happened" thread and I JUST mentioned Dan Henderson vs Guy Mezger.

 

Let me first be honest and say I am old school mma fan like yourself, and I'm also from Dallas, however, I think even if I wasn't biased towards Guy since I saw him in UFC first as well as him being from Dallas, that he should've won that fight.

 

I know the specifics of that fight and THAT is a good example of a fight being favored for Sakuraba in an unjust way.  Even though Guy didn't have to fight as per the pre fight agreement, I think he could've gone that one extra round and perhaps changed history.

 

 

Pic was taken a few years ago, I think 2007. Don't make fun, I was in horrible shape then, and Guy is also standing on a 6' incline ;)

Exactly my thoughts. Makes me think that when Shamrock got screwed by the early stoppage against Saku later it was the Japanese MMA gods punishing Ken for denying us that last round between Guy and Kazushi. Phone Post
3/24/13 6:27 PM
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Diesel67
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Jack Slack - 

I'm unsure of the point of your post diesel... 

fighters lose? =S


Fighters lose, but this one was DESTROYED by Wandy THREE TIMES. None of them was even close. But his nuthuggers still pretend he's some kind of superman.
3/24/13 6:32 PM
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D241
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Diesel67 - 
Jack Slack - 

I'm unsure of the point of your post diesel... 

fighters lose? =S


Fighters lose, but this one was DESTROYED by Wandy THREE TIMES. None of them was even close. But his nuthuggers still pretend he's some kind of superman.

I'm disappointed Diesel67 was the guy to bring a negative vibe to this thread. Show some respect 01er.

You obviously do not understand the premise of this thread. It's a Sakuraba appreciation thread and breakdown thread.

 

There are many positive threads about Wanderlei, you wouldn't feel good if someone posted gifs of Vitor blasting him in UFC, or Tito double legging him, or Hunt Atomic butt dropping him, or Mirko lhking him, etc....

 

If you want to big up Wanderlei, create your own thread. I'm sure it will be well recieved because LIKE Sakuraba, Wanderlei is an mma legend, a historic mma figure who helped pave the mma landscape. Wanderlei Silva has respect for Sakuraba.


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