UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Kazushi Sakuraba: The Jester of MMA


3/27/13 1:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44178
The other thing too is that Pride used Sak like a piece of meat. The exploited him. So while he may have had favourable treatment in the Mezger and Royler fights, he was hardly a paper champion in the tradition of being fed cans and given favourable matchups. Remember that Pride allowed knees/kicks on the ground right before Sak/Wand 1 which completely disfavours Sak because of his turtling tendencies (not to mention anything about fighting the larger, vicious killer in Wand).

I think the UFC has been pretty legit in giving everyone competitive, let the strong survive matchup for the most part nevermind the standups between Vitor and Johnson, what about the huge game changing standup for Bas and TK (though that was pre-Zuffa) in a championship fight for whom they brought it and marketed as the next champ?
3/27/13 5:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26177
D241 -

UFC having the Bas Rutten looking guy as their logo after Bas beat Randleman. Coincidently.

That blue guy was there since UFC 1 if I'm not mistaken

I respect your attempt though Phone Post
3/27/13 6:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26178
Jack Slack -
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit Phone Post
3/27/13 6:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
yabadaba
122 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/27/13 6:54 PM
Member Since: 2/22/09
Posts: 4310

^ Rather than asking us to guess who you are refering to why don't you just name the wrestler(s) Nick faced in this six year period?

3/27/13 7:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26179
Sean sherk Phone Post
3/27/13 7:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26180
yabadaba -

^ Rather than asking us to guess who you are refering to why don't you just name the wrestler(s) Nick faced in this six year period?

Interesting also how none of the super educated fans on here bothered to point out how crazy his claim was or even glance at nicks record Phone Post
3/27/13 7:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
panic686
29 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/18/02
Posts: 18613
Saku is amazing Phone Post
3/27/13 7:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
yabadaba
122 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/22/09
Posts: 4312
jacktripper - 
yabadaba -

^ Rather than asking us to guess who you are refering to why don't you just name the wrestler(s) Nick faced in this six year period?

Interesting also how none of the super educated fans on here bothered to point out how crazy his claim was or even glance at nicks record Phone Post

Interesting how you seem to be unable to name a single wrestler that Nick faced in this six year period.

3/27/13 9:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
D241
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 15210
jacktripper - 
D241 -

UFC having the Bas Rutten looking guy as their logo after Bas beat Randleman. Coincidently.

That blue guy was there since UFC 1 if I'm not mistaken

I respect your attempt though Phone Post

I meant having Bas Rutten as the champion, to look like the logo guy.

The logo guy was in place, but a heavyweight to replace Randy wasn't. Bas Rutten won a very controversial fight which was my insinuation that UFC gave him that fight b/c of his resemblence.

Another fight that shouldn't have had a winner be declared.

3/27/13 9:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26182
yabadaba -
jacktripper - 
yabadaba -

^ Rather than asking us to guess who you are refering to why don't you just name the wrestler(s) Nick faced in this six year period?

Interesting also how none of the super educated fans on here bothered to point out how crazy his claim was or even glance at nicks record Phone Post

Interesting how you seem to be unable to name a single wrestler that Nick faced in this six year period.

What "6 year period"? Phone Post
3/28/13 12:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44182
Enough about Diaz on this thread.

Back to the Jester of MMA. Are there any other jesters in the game as of late?
3/28/13 1:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1657 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1476
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit Phone Post

2006 - he fights Sean Sherk and loses.

He beats Gomi - who is not a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination - then fights no more elite wrestlers until GSP in 2013.

So I guess it's closer to 7.

3/28/13 10:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26183
Jack Slack -
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit Phone Post

2006 - he fights Sean Sherk and loses.

He beats Gomi - who is not a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination - then fights no more elite wrestlers until GSP in 2013.

So I guess it's closer to 7.

Diaz fought in half a dozen or so promotions in that time period which completely invalidates whatever point you attempted to make about being "pushed" by a promotion though Phone Post 3.0
3/29/13 7:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1657 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1477
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit Phone Post

2006 - he fights Sean Sherk and loses.

He beats Gomi - who is not a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination - then fights no more elite wrestlers until GSP in 2013.

So I guess it's closer to 7.

Diaz fought in half a dozen or so promotions in that time period which completely invalidates whatever point you attempted to make about being "pushed" by a promotion though Phone Post 3.0

He was a marquee fighter for each and Strikeforce pushed him hard.

It seems like your argument changed from "Nick has fought wrestlers!" to "oh but... different promotions".

3/29/13 8:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ThinkMMA
10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/1/09
Posts: 2771
Give it up jacktripper. Your theory is flawed.

War Sak. Sak is who got me back into mma after '95-'97. One of the most exciting fighters ever and when he was on his warpath his kicks were insane. Phone Post
3/29/13 2:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
D241
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 15283

Sakuraba is the anthithesis of modern mma fighters.

 

In todays mma, fighters don't give it there all, they put winning above everything, and showmanship is the LAST thing a fighter in todays mma worries about.

 

Sakuraba, he'd always give it his all and literally came to tears when he got injured and couldn't fight Wanderlei.

When in top position, he could've made an attempt to make it appear he was being active and just rode out being in top position, but nope, not Sakuraba. Sakuraba would grab your legs, run around in circles, he'd mongolian chop you, he'd cartwheel into your guard, he'd jump stomp into your guard, he'd run and side kick you in the face landing in guard.

 

He exceeded the expectations of a fighter, he was a fighter 100% by definition, but he also had his showmanship, which is something that cannot be measured and is lost in todays mma.

3/29/13 2:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26189
Wasa-B -
Jack Slack - 
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?


This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.
Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving Phone Post 3.0
3/29/13 2:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 26190
D241 -

Sakuraba is the anthithesis of modern mma fighters.

 

In todays mma, fighters don't give it there all, they put winning above everything, and showmanship is the LAST thing a fighter in todays mma worries about.

 

Sakuraba, he'd always give it his all and literally came to tears when he got injured and couldn't fight Wanderlei.

When in top position, he could've made an attempt to make it appear he was being active and just rode out being in top position, but nope, not Sakuraba. Sakuraba would grab your legs, run around in circles, he'd mongolian chop you, he'd cartwheel into your guard, he'd jump stomp into your guard, he'd run and side kick you in the face landing in guard.

 

He exceeded the expectations of a fighter, he was a fighter 100% by definition, but he also had his showmanship, which is something that cannot be measured and is lost in todays mma.

Funny how you disrespect every fighter in mma today and I'm the one called a hater

You guys are really blinded by your infatuation Phone Post 3.0
3/29/13 3:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
D241
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 15290
jacktripper - 
D241 -

Sakuraba is the anthithesis of modern mma fighters.

 

In todays mma, fighters don't give it there all, they put winning above everything, and showmanship is the LAST thing a fighter in todays mma worries about.

 

Sakuraba, he'd always give it his all and literally came to tears when he got injured and couldn't fight Wanderlei.

When in top position, he could've made an attempt to make it appear he was being active and just rode out being in top position, but nope, not Sakuraba. Sakuraba would grab your legs, run around in circles, he'd mongolian chop you, he'd cartwheel into your guard, he'd jump stomp into your guard, he'd run and side kick you in the face landing in guard.

 

He exceeded the expectations of a fighter, he was a fighter 100% by definition, but he also had his showmanship, which is something that cannot be measured and is lost in todays mma.

Funny how you disrespect every fighter in mma today and I'm the one called a hater

You guys are really blinded by your infatuation Phone Post 3.0

You've got me twisted bro.

I respect all fighters, I don't bash any of them. I may critique them, but I don't bash. By all means though, give me examples of how you formulated this opinion of me.

 

By the way, on this thread, you have been disrespectful to Sakuraba, I haven't been disrespectful to any fighters. Looking forward hearing how I'm disrespectful to fighters from you.

3/29/13 6:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44186
jacktripper - 
Wasa-B -
Jack Slack - 
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?


This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.
Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving Phone Post 3.0

Lol, dude. I said something specific about black people portrayed as apes in Japan (as opposed to the west) and that gets somehow twisted to me saying that there is no history of racism in Japan at all and then go on to use the words "sadly ignorant" and "self serving" in the same sentence.

Yeah. lol.
4/2/13 8:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44200
ttt
4/3/13 12:37 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
drey1
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/28/13
Posts: 4
Wasa-B - 
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

Still a Sak hater after all these years eh?

I like how this guy rips Saku, but praises Skip Hall.




From:jacktripper
Posted: 12/6/06 11:26 PM
Edited: 06-Dec-06

Member Since: 03/27/2003
Posts: 14338

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up


im a complete skip fan due to him being the only vietnam vet i know of thats an mma fighter.... ive got incredible respect for skip
4/3/13 12:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HexRei
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/4/07
Posts: 13239
jacktripper - 
Wasa-B -
Jack Slack - 
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?


This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.
Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving Phone Post 3.0

The racism wasn't institutionalized black slavery upon which half a nation was built, so there's that.

In America we use these kinds of symbols all that time and they are not considered insulting as long as they don't cross certain lines which are almost all cultural and depend on our culture's particular history of oppression which is quite different from Japan's.
4/3/13 1:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44205
HexRei - 
jacktripper - 
Wasa-B -
Jack Slack - 
jacktripper - 
Jack Slack -
jacktripper -  Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in) Phone Post

 

Sure there has... 

 

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything... Phone Post

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

 

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?


This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.
Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving Phone Post 3.0

The racism wasn't institutionalized black slavery upon which half a nation was built, so there's that.

In America we use these kinds of symbols all that time and they are not considered insulting as long as they don't cross certain lines which are almost all cultural and depend on our culture's particular history of oppression which is quite different from Japan's.

^ Case in point: the recent controversy over the rising sun gi that GSP wore from Hayabusa. To most North Americans, they didnt have any idea what it meant or stood for but to Koreans or other Asian countries colonized by Japan, it obviously means something.

Again, i never said the Donkey Kong thing was "right," but it sure doesnt mean what Tripper wants it to mean in Japan. Sak also mentioned that he thought Wand looked like a gorilla man comic book character. Wand is probably part black but i seriously doubt Sak meant it in the way that Europeans do when they throw banana peels out on the field. Im sure Tripper probably wants it to mean the same thing though.

Anyhow, enough about this...........more about Sak and his Recently, there's always threads that come up about best sub/bjj/non-bjj sub guys in MMA and it boggles me that Aoki doesnt get mentioned in the sub/bjj category and that Sak is hardly mentioned in the non-bjj sub discussion.

I think it has to be between Hughes and Sak that were the best subgrapplers that didnt come from BJJ.
4/3/13 1:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TEX4N
269 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/10/12
Posts: 4491
. Phone Post 3.0

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.