UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Quebec gives its BS statement re: the GSP weighin


3/26/13 3:00 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23339
 

Did Quebec's athletic commission bend the rules in favor of hometown favorite Georges St-Pierre heading into UFC 158?

That was the question making the rounds on Monday after video surfaced of a conversation between UFC vice-president Michael Mersch and Nick Diaz's camp at the Bell Centre in the moments before the UFC 158 weigh-in. In the video, Mersch informed Diaz both he and St-Pierre, the contestants for the main event welterweight title fight, would be allowed up to a .9-pound discrepancy on the 170-pound welterweight limit. Hypothetically, a fighter who weighed in at 170.9 would be recorded as 170.

This differs from the title fight weigh-in rules utilized by nearly every commission in North America. While non-title fighters are allowed up to an extra pound on their weight-class limit to allow for potential minor scale inaccuracies, championship contestants are expected to hit the precise limit.

Tuesday, a representative from the Quebec commission confirmed to MMAFighting's Ariel Helwani that the commission does not, in fact, take decimals into account when calculating fighter weights. But the rule has been in place for some time and was not instituted on the spot to protect GSP, as some have insinuated.

"I wish to inform you that, during UFC 158, no contestants exceeded the weight determined in their contracts," Quebec commission representative Joyce Tremblay said in an email to MMAFighting. "Currently, the Régie does take into consideration the maximum weight determined by contract when it carries out the weight-ins before a bout. However, our regulation on combat sports does not take decimals into account. Their consideration is a question of interpretation likely to be debated between the two parties under contract."

The commission did not respond to a follow-up email asking for further clarification. A look at the weigh-in results for the six UFC events held in Montreal show that while weights were rounded to the half-pound for the first UFC event in Quebec, UFC 83 in 2008, they haven't taken decimals into account in the five events since.

While no one from Diaz's camp has accused St-Pierre of actually weighing in above 170, the fact the team wasn't informed of the commission's interpretation of the rules until just before the weigh-ins raised eyebrows. In the video, Mersch informs the Diaz camp both of the Quebec rules in regards to decimals, and that the main-event fighters would have an hour to try to make weight if they missed, a luxury not afforded to other fighters on the card.

"Here, they're going to allow you and Georges to have an extra hour. Just in case somebody doesn't make it," Mersch said. "But the good news is, they don't count the decimal. If you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170."

Asked by Diaz's camp why they weren't informed sooner, Mersch said "It's just something to keep in mind. That's kind of an off the record type of thing. But keep that in mind. As long as he's under 171, we should be good."

Carlos Condit, who fought St-Pierre in the main event of UFC 154 in Montreal, told MMAFighting on Tuesday he was never told of such weight allowances before the weigh-in for his fight with St-Pierre, which St-Pierre won via unanimous decision.

In an email to MMAFighting, UFC vice-president Marc Ratner, who handles the company's regulatory affairs, deferred to the Quebec commission.

                                                                                      

3/26/13 3:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23340

what do they mean question of interpretation?

170.1 is greater than the maximum of 170. And even if you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, at a minimum you would round to the nearest whole.

3/26/13 3:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
633 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 13594

3/26/13 3:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Swayze Express
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/16/12
Posts: 75
Quebec's Boxing Commission***
3/26/13 3:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
nineohfive
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/8/11
Posts: 108
Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)
3/26/13 3:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Nonlinear
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/5/07
Posts: 2510

c[_]

care cup is empty :(

3/26/13 3:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23341
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

So show us Nick's contract where it contradicts what was stated?  If you think it's a big conspiracy that was changed last minute, this should be easy to prove.  All dates, fight purses, weights, and many many other terms are clearly stated in the executed contract between the promotion and fighter.


dont have the bout agreement handy, but im pretty sure it will say the max weight is 170...170.1, 170.2, 170.3 is greater than 170 if you weren't sure...theres nothing in the contract or any law that i am aware of that says decimals dont count..

3/26/13 3:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23342
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.

3/26/13 3:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
nineohfive
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/8/11
Posts: 109
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


you mean like allowing one fighter to skip all press events and workouts while the other must attend?

.......
3/26/13 3:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23346
nineohfive - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


you mean like allowing one fighter to skip all press events and workouts while the other must attend?

.......

no..thats not governed by the athletic commission that is charged with enforcing the rules..so that is different subject for discussion

3/26/13 3:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
pennviachoke
1171 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/4/10
Posts: 9191
nineohfive -
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


you mean like allowing one fighter to skip all press events and workouts while the other must attend?

.......
This is getting good Phone Post
3/26/13 3:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
nineohfive
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/8/11
Posts: 110
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


you mean like allowing one fighter to skip all press events and workouts while the other must attend?

.......

no..thats not governed by the athletic commission that is charged with enforcing the rules..so that is different subject for discussion


I think it's funny GSP has never missed weight. Not once, in any city. But once you fight Nick Diaz, all this dumb shit comes out. It's pathetic.

Nick and do what he pleases and it's cool. You think GSP went to the commission and said 'hey, I'm not gonna make weight maybe, bend the rules for me'

3/26/13 3:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
epic hero
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/12
Posts: 1721
Something shady went down and this is the best they can do
3/26/13 3:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
312 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44175
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


Didnt Diaz's camp bend the rules when they wanted a second look at GSP's wraps after already ok'ing it then causing a scene complete with shouting in GSP's locker room?

What about taking a swing after the bell? Should have been a point deduction.
3/26/13 3:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
epic hero
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/12
Posts: 1722
I'm loving these strawman arguments everybody is spewing out that's completely unrelated to the events that took place
3/26/13 3:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 76892
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 

what do they mean question of interpretation?

170.1 is greater than the maximum of 170. And even if you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, at a minimum you would round to the nearest whole.


What don't you get about "our regulation on combat sports does not take decimals into account"?

He's saying as far as their regulations are concerned, 170.9 is 170. If the two fighters are concerned about decimals, that's their problem.

3/26/13 3:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23347
nineohfive - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


you mean like allowing one fighter to skip all press events and workouts while the other must attend?

.......

no..thats not governed by the athletic commission that is charged with enforcing the rules..so that is different subject for discussion


I think it's funny GSP has never missed weight. Not once, in any city. But once you fight Nick Diaz, all this dumb shit comes out. It's pathetic.

Nick and do what he pleases and it's cool. You think GSP went to the commission and said 'hey, I'm not gonna make weight maybe, bend the rules for me'


dont focus on nick or gsp (or your homoerotic love for him)...this issue goes beyond the fighters..its a question of the enforcement of rules by a governing athletic commission

3/26/13 3:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23348
Wasa-B - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


Didnt Diaz's camp bend the rules when they wanted a second look at GSP's wraps after already ok'ing it then causing a scene complete with shouting in GSP's locker room?

What about taking a swing after the bell? Should have been a point deduction.

they didnt get a second look..

 

and absolutely nick should have been docked a point for the swing..

 

your point? i thought we learned in kindergarten that two wrongs dont make a right?

3/26/13 3:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Aaron Becker
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/8/11
Posts: 346
oh god, just like his last fight, his fans can never accept a loss
3/26/13 3:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23349
fedor_saku_wand - This makes no sense, the contract states they fight at 170... how is the athletic commission allowed to change that?

Where in the rules does it say that they have this .9 lb allowance?

When did the rules change since they used to round off to the half pound?

Why werent Kos and Condit made aware of this rule when they fought GSP in Montreal?

Why wasnt Diaz told until after he was done cutting weight?

How long has GSP known about this?

exactly...they are acting like the burden of proof is on proving that decimals should be counted..no you silly bitches..the contract says max is 170...the burden of proof is on the commision to prove that decimals shouldnt be counted

3/26/13 3:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23350
orcus - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 

what do they mean question of interpretation?

170.1 is greater than the maximum of 170. And even if you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, at a minimum you would round to the nearest whole.


What don't you get about "our regulation on combat sports does not take decimals into account"?

He's saying as far as their regulations are concerned, 170.9 is 170. If the two fighters are concerned about decimals, that's their problem.


show me in their regulations where it says that decimals arent counted...

 

...im waiting...

3/26/13 3:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
epic hero
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/12
Posts: 1723
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
epic hero - I'm loving these strawman arguments everybody is spewing out that's completely unrelated to the events that took place

I love watching the Diaz fans scramble because they finally realize it's over.  Prior to this fight, they were all saying how Nick would box him up, and if GSP took it down he'd instantly be submitted.  Now reality is sinking in and they know they will never witness Nick in another UFC title fight, so they resort to all they have left, and it's attacking his opponents who beat him.  Just lilke they did with Diego, Riggs, KJ, Condit, and now GSP.  Never once have they said his opponent was the better fighter or better man that night.  Always excuses and now it's come to an end.  He's 1-2 since coming back to the UFC, a fringe top 10 WW, and of course wants to "retire," which is code for "I know I can't beat these guys."


Exactly what I'm talking about

This makes no sense, the contract states they fight at 170... how is the athletic commission allowed to change that?

Where in the rules does it say that they have this .9 lb allowance?

When did the rules change since they used to round off to the half pound?

Why werent Kos and Condit made aware of this rule when they fought GSP in Montreal?

Why wasnt Diaz told until after he was done cutting weight?

How long has GSP known about this?


^^ This is the shit I'm concerned about(props to fedor_saku_wand for being able to see the big picture unlike many other simpletons), not your personal feelings about a fighter
3/26/13 3:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JunkieDog
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/11
Posts: 455
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

So show us Nick's contract where it contradicts what was stated?  If you think it's a big conspiracy that was changed last minute, this should be easy to prove.  All dates, fight purses, weights, and many many other terms are clearly stated in the executed contract between the promotion and fighter.


dont have the bout agreement handy, but im pretty sure it will say the max weight is 170...170.1, 170.2, 170.3 is greater than 170 if you weren't sure...theres nothing in the contract or any law that i am aware of that says decimals dont count..


That's not really the issue, though... it not saying that decimals DON'T count. Does the contract stipulate that decimals DO count? If so, how many decimal's are to be used? 170.1 is greater than 170 just as 170.000000000000001 is greater than 170.

Seems to me if decimals are to count then the contract would be 170.0, clearly informing the fighter that the official weight would be carried out to the tenth pound.
3/26/13 3:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 23351

"Section 168 of the Regulation respecting combat sports provides that the maximum weight that a fighter must achieve at the official weigh-in shall be determined in advance by contract - and if the fighter does not make the contracted weight - in this case 170 pounds - then 20% of his purse or "the contestant's remuneration" will be deducted and paid to his opponent (subsections (7) and (8)). The contracted weight for this fight was 170 pounds. 170.9 is not 170, anywhere in the world, for a title fight. There is no question what "170 pounds" means, in the bout agreement, as a matter of contractual interpretation.

3/26/13 3:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Curtis_E_Bare
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/3/09
Posts: 31
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

So show us Nick's contract where it contradicts what was stated?  If you think it's a big conspiracy that was changed last minute, this should be easy to prove.  All dates, fight purses, weights, and many many other terms are clearly stated in the executed contract between the promotion and fighter.


dont have the bout agreement handy, but im pretty sure it will say the max weight is 170...170.1, 170.2, 170.3 is greater than 170 if you weren't sure...theres nothing in the contract or any law that i am aware of that says decimals dont count..


You have to assign a cutoff at some point, scales (like any measuring device) have inherent error. 170.01 is greater than 170 as is 170.001, 170.0001...

It's not that decimals don't count, it's the level of precision that the Quebec athletic commission uses. From everything that has been reported, this level of precision has existed for at least the last five cards.

This is a manufactured issue due to sour grapes.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.