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UnderGround Forums >> Quebec gives its BS statement re: the GSP weighin


3/28/13 8:25 PM
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CindyO
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You understand that you can see if someone is over 170 or no on a scale correct? WTF R U talking about? Per contract and via rule in a UFC title fight there is a "maximum" of 170 LBS allowed.

170.9 > 170

You seem more familiar with the Quebec AC that I am.  Do they use a scale that shows decimals?  Are the shown to the nearest pound (170), nearest tenth (170.1), nearest hundreth (170.15), nearest thousandth (170.152), or other?



Dude I'm not familiar with anything other than any scale I can imaging being used, the actual rules the local commission were supposed to follow and common sense! I'm telling you if the commission themselves said that they are throwing the decimals out, they had access to them; therefore, "you can see if someone is over 170 or no on a scale (that was used or would be used for any such purpose as weigh in of fighters ANYWHERE)".

Per my comments (let me know if you require the written rules) "In UFC title fight at WW there is a "maximum" of 170 LBS allowed.

170.9 > 170"

There is really nothing to talk about, the local commission did not act as intended by the rules. They acted in an unethical fashion.


"the local commission did not act as intended by the rules"

Except, with respect to how weight is determined, the local ACs determine the rules, not the UFC and there is no rule. So they could not have broken it.

A I posted before - would it make you feel better if they got scales without decimals or put a piece of electrical tape over the last digit of the ones they already used (assuming they were already using ones with a decimal)? Would this be OK because the scale read "170" and not 170.X?


No the local commission acted in bad faith and knows damn well 170.9>170 and was not free to change the clear rule to suit there needs. The UFC does NOT set the rule at all!

Those rules I posted are the commissions own rules which were violated by the local commission.

I've looked through the Quebec AC rules a couple of times and I see no such rule that states what level of tolerance must be achieved. Could you please post the relevant section?
The only part I have seen is that the promotion determines the weight class and the AC ensures it achieved - and the AC determines what level of tolerance is acceptable.

Why can a ww fighter fight, for a title, at 170.01 in Las Vegas?

Because 170.01 is a hell of a lot closer to 170 than 170.9

.01 lbs ... 1 Nikel

 

0.9 lbs...   90 Nickels

 

 


*snickers* Wut?

 

Cindy

3/28/13 8:26 PM
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CindyO
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You understand that you can see if someone is over 170 or no on a scale correct? WTF R U talking about? Per contract and via rule in a UFC title fight there is a "maximum" of 170 LBS allowed.

170.9 > 170

You seem more familiar with the Quebec AC that I am.  Do they use a scale that shows decimals?  Are the shown to the nearest pound (170), nearest tenth (170.1), nearest hundreth (170.15), nearest thousandth (170.152), or other?



Dude I'm not familiar with anything other than any scale I can imaging being used, the actual rules the local commission were supposed to follow and common sense! I'm telling you if the commission themselves said that they are throwing the decimals out, they had access to them; therefore, "you can see if someone is over 170 or no on a scale (that was used or would be used for any such purpose as weigh in of fighters ANYWHERE)".

Per my comments (let me know if you require the written rules) "In UFC title fight at WW there is a "maximum" of 170 LBS allowed.

170.9 > 170"

There is really nothing to talk about, the local commission did not act as intended by the rules. They acted in an unethical fashion.


"the local commission did not act as intended by the rules"

Except, with respect to how weight is determined, the local ACs determine the rules, not the UFC and there is no rule. So they could not have broken it.

A I posted before - would it make you feel better if they got scales without decimals or put a piece of electrical tape over the last digit of the ones they already used (assuming they were already using ones with a decimal)? Would this be OK because the scale read "170" and not 170.X?


No the local commission acted in bad faith and knows damn well 170.9>170 and was not free to change the clear rule to suit there needs. The UFC does NOT set the rule at all!

Those rules I posted are the commissions own rules which were violated by the local commission.

I've looked through the Quebec AC rules a couple of times and I see no such rule that states what level of tolerance must be achieved. Could you please post the relevant section?
The only part I have seen is that the promotion determines the weight class and the AC ensures it achieved - and the AC determines what level of tolerance is acceptable.

Why can a ww fighter fight, for a title, at 170.01 in Las Vegas?

Because 170.01 is a hell of a lot closer to 170 than 170.9

.01 lbs ... 1 Nikel

 

0.9 lbs...   90 Nickels

 

 


Your screenname should be MathNoob


LOL! Maybe they're on sale. Buy nine nickels and get 81 free:)

 

Cindy

3/28/13 9:25 PM
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ShatsBassoon
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He kinda looked like he hit 170lbs at the weigh ins but now i'm not so sure...

 

 

3/28/13 10:14 PM
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orcus
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"1. Do they not report decimals or do they not count decimals. If the latter, show me this evidence u speak of. "

Jesus what a dumb fucking question. Let me get this straight: You think the OFFICIAL WEIGHT, as called out by the official, as recorded (as the official weight) by another official, as repeated by Rogan, is "185" but they "really" count it as 185.3 or whatever? When and where is this unspoken, unrecorded "real" number being "counted", and for what?  Does the offical reading the scale and calling out the nice round number then use ventriloquism to whisper the "real weight including decimals" to another official so it can be "counted" somewhere for something? Or does he just memorize all 24 weights so they can have a secret powwow later where they use the "real" numbers for something? lol

Newsflash: Saying a fighter is overweight based on a number with decimals, when the official weight is a whole number, means they would be basing decisions of fines and penalties on what is LITERALLY an UNOFFICIAL WEIGHT. Does that sound sensible to you?

"What do those commission say in their rules?"

They most likely say nothing about to what decimal place weights have to be recorded, counted, or whatever else you want to call it, just like Montreal regs say nothing about it. Meaning dropping the decimal entirely is literally not against any rule and is thus up to the commission.

Curtis broke it down a million times in plain english, you guys are either seriously retarded or just trolling. There's no other conceivable explanation for you how you can still not get this.

 

3/28/13 10:14 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/28/13 10:14 PM
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*eagerly awaits LazerMMA's brilliant observation that 170.9 > 170*

3/28/13 10:50 PM
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IronShriek
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orcus -

 

"1. Do they not report decimals or do they not count decimals. If the latter, show me this evidence u speak of. "

Jesus what a dumb fucking question. Let me get this straight: You think the OFFICIAL WEIGHT, as called out by the official, as recorded (as the official weight) by another official, as repeated by Rogan, is "185" but they "really" count it as 185.3 or whatever? When and where is this unspoken, unrecorded "real" number being "counted", and for what?  Does the offical reading the scale and calling out the nice round number then use ventriloquism to whisper the "real weight including decimals" to another official so it can be "counted" somewhere for something? Or does he just memorize all 24 weights so they can have a secret powwow later where they use the "real" numbers for something? lol

Newsflash: Saying a fighter is overweight based on a number with decimals, when the official weight is a whole number, means they would be basing decisions of fines and penalties on what is LITERALLY an UNOFFICIAL WEIGHT. Does that sound sensible to you?

"What do those commission say in their rules?"

They most likely say nothing about to what decimal place weights have to be recorded, counted, or whatever else you want to call it, just like Montreal regs say nothing about it. Meaning dropping the decimal entirely is literally not against any rule and is thus up to the commission.

Curtis broke it down a million times in plain english, you guys are either seriously retarded or just trolling. There's no other conceivable explanation for you how you can still not get this.

 

Except they count decimals all the time in Quebec. Not this time though. Last minute decision. If they do things like that, what else are they intentionally helping Georges get away with. And if it was above board why did Mersch deny the meeting ever took place (see new Bloody Elbow article including the text messages between Mersch and Diaz's lawyer on weigh-in night). Phone Post 3.0
3/28/13 11:16 PM
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Curtis_E_Bare
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You understand that you can see if someone is over 170 or no on a scale correct? WTF R U talking about? Per contract and via rule in a UFC title fight there is a "maximum" of 170 LBS allowed.

170.9 > 170

You seem more familiar with the Quebec AC that I am.  Do they use a scale that shows decimals?  Are the shown to the nearest pound (170), nearest tenth (170.1), nearest hundreth (170.15), nearest thousandth (170.152), or other?



Dude I'm not familiar with anything other than any scale I can imaging being used, the actual rules the local commission were supposed to follow and common sense! I'm telling you if the commission themselves said that they are throwing the decimals out, they had access to them; therefore, "you can see if someone is over 170 or no on a scale (that was used or would be used for any such purpose as weigh in of fighters ANYWHERE)".

Per my comments (let me know if you require the written rules) "In UFC title fight at WW there is a "maximum" of 170 LBS allowed.

170.9 > 170"

There is really nothing to talk about, the local commission did not act as intended by the rules. They acted in an unethical fashion.


"the local commission did not act as intended by the rules"

Except, with respect to how weight is determined, the local ACs determine the rules, not the UFC and there is no rule. So they could not have broken it.

A I posted before - would it make you feel better if they got scales without decimals or put a piece of electrical tape over the last digit of the ones they already used (assuming they were already using ones with a decimal)? Would this be OK because the scale read "170" and not 170.X?


No the local commission acted in bad faith and knows damn well 170.9>170 and was not free to change the clear rule to suit there needs. The UFC does NOT set the rule at all!

Those rules I posted are the commissions own rules which were violated by the local commission.

I've looked through the Quebec AC rules a couple of times and I see no such rule that states what level of tolerance must be achieved. Could you please post the relevant section?
The only part I have seen is that the promotion determines the weight class and the AC ensures it achieved - and the AC determines what level of tolerance is acceptable.

Why can a ww fighter fight, for a title, at 170.01 in Las Vegas?

Because 170.01 is a hell of a lot closer to 170 than 170.9

.01 lbs ... 1 Nikel

 

0.9 lbs...   90 Nickels

 

 


Does this mean you are OK with the idea of someone weighing over the limit as long as that difference is very very small?

Using the previous example, 170.01 is OK but 170.1 or even 170.9 is not? Have I summarized your position correctly?
3/28/13 11:17 PM
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orcus
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"Except they count decimals all the time in Quebec. Not this time though. Last minute decision."

Last minute decision? Was it a last minute decision at the immediately previous UFC in Montreal too? And then at two of the Montreal UFCs before that, were those last minute decisions too?

3/28/13 11:20 PM
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Poindexter
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This shit is continuing to look worse and worse for the commission and GSP by association.

3/28/13 11:53 PM
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Curtis_E_Bare
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@Curtis_E_Bare 

You got to draw the line somewhere.  I'm far more comfortable with one nickel than I am with 10 nickels... or in this case, the off the record rule and play as you go 90 nickels!


But the issue is who you give the ability to make that decision. Who gets to decide if it's one nickel or if it is $8.34 and an expired movie ticket. The answer is the athletic commission gets to decide, whether we like it or not.
3/29/13 12:41 AM
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DiaztakesGSP'ssmokedmeat
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Because this would be the first time anyone has helped GSP cheat right?

3/29/13 12:42 AM
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orcus
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"How come the other fighters don't get an extra hour to cut weight?  Doesn't seem fair that only Nick and GSP get this special treatment."

Because the other fighters have a 1lb allowance (if you want to get technical, if the AC is dropping decimals, they have a 1.9lb allowance). Title fighters have no allowance (or again, in a sense a .9lb allowance, if you want to call it that, when they drop decimals), so they get a chance to make weight if they miss it the first time.

In almost every other AC, *every* fighter, even the title fighters, get an hour (or more) to make weight if they miss it the first time. 

3/29/13 12:52 AM
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orcus
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@ orcus...  can you please provide a source?

Thanks in advance :-)


Source for what?

3/29/13 1:03 AM
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orcus
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Difference is I've never made up a weight that I hope he weighed in at and that I'm going to continue to argue about despite no proof.  Otherwise I could say Aldo missed weight against Edgar and list 10 other champs that "probably" did too as they all weighed in with no decimals.  Contrary to what you Diaz hang-ons like to believe, most weigh ins are measured to the exact pound with no decimals.


Go ahead, keep deflecting ...  we wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the secret video.

Ever wonder why NO UFC fighter has ever tested positive for prohibited substances in Canada???  That's right, zero, zilch, nada, not one!!! Never! Ever!

So if you want to deflect, then maybe you can shed some light on this subject? 

 


Ever wonder why multiple UFC fighters, even popular ones, have tested positive for prohibited substances in events where the ACs -- if there was one -- did not test at all, and the UFC had to do their own testing? Or why fighters have come in over weight, even to the point of having to forfeit part of their purse, in events with no AC where the UFC did the weighins themselves?

3/29/13 1:11 AM
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D241
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I wonder if the examples orcus is talking about INCLUDE high ppv stars.

 

For instance UFC tested Forest Griffin who failed a test for xanex. He wasn't suspended, possibly b/c he was a big draw?

3/29/13 1:18 AM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/29/13 1:24 AM
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D241 - 

I wonder if the examples orcus is talking about INCLUDE high ppv stars.

 

For instance UFC tested Forest Griffin who failed a test for xanex. He wasn't suspended, possibly b/c he was a big draw?

 

Every single google hit for this tells me it was the Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission. What made you think the UFC did the test? If the PSAC chose not to suspend Forrest, or to suspend him for just 3 months, that's their decision.

edit:

From the PA code (says "boxer" but I assume it applies to all combat sports?):

 

 

 

 (b)  Disciplinary action for a boxer with a confirmed positive test result shall be set forth in a written order and will be as follows:
 
   (1)  First occurrence. A preliminary suspension in accordance with 5 Pa.C.S. §  1303(a) (relating to preliminary suspension of licenses or permits), and a civil penalty of $100....
 
15.10. Confidentiality.
 
 Information received in the process of performing a test under this chapter, including medical information, test results and reports filed as a result of attending a treatment program, will be treated as confidential, except for use with respect to an order issued by the Commission or judicial hearing with regard to the order. Access to the information in the records of the Commission will be limited to the Commissioners, the Executive Director, a representative of the Commission and the tested boxer. 

 

 

So, there you go. 30 day suspension for first offense, results are confidential. Forrest fought TIto 3 months later.

3/29/13 1:42 AM
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Random Poster
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Did the weigh ins get delayed at all? I thought I read that somewhere
3/29/13 3:19 AM
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D241
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What about the first part of my statement orcus?

3/29/13 8:18 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus -

"How come the other fighters don't get an extra hour to cut weight?  Doesn't seem fair that only Nick and GSP get this special treatment."

Because the other fighters have a 1lb allowance (if you want to get technical, if the AC is dropping decimals, they have a 1.9lb allowance). Title fighters have no allowance (or again, in a sense a .9lb allowance, if you want to call it that, when they drop decimals), so they get a chance to make weight if they miss it the first time.

In almost every other AC, *every* fighter, even the title fighters, get an hour (or more) to make weight if they miss it the first time. 

Yes but this commissions rules say you do not get extra time....at least the on the record rules lol Phone Post
3/29/13 9:37 AM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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orcus -

"How come the other fighters don't get an extra hour to cut weight?  Doesn't seem fair that only Nick and GSP get this special treatment."

Because the other fighters have a 1lb allowance (if you want to get technical, if the AC is dropping decimals, they have a 1.9lb allowance). Title fighters have no allowance (or again, in a sense a .9lb allowance, if you want to call it that, when they drop decimals), so they get a chance to make weight if they miss it the first time.

In almost every other AC, *every* fighter, even the title fighters, get an hour (or more) to make weight if they miss it the first time. 

I see I see. So what happens in almost every AC is relevant...except when it comes to decimals. Phone Post 3.0
3/29/13 10:26 AM
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Osbot
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I don't understand what the fuss is about.

Nick Diaz came in at 170.9 and was announced as 170. GSP isn't complaining. He just beat dat ass.
3/29/13 11:54 AM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/29/13 12:01 PM
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"What about the first part of my statement orcus?"

You wonder if major PPV stars have tested positive when UFC has held events in Canada, or where ACs don't test? I don't know off the top of my head. I'll be happy to research that if you can tell me how many major PPV stars have tested positive when the ACs *do* test?

"I see I see. So what happens in almost every AC is relevant...except when it comes to decimals."

Are you pretending you haven't seen many people point out that Vegas does not use decimals, or at most rounds to the half, for the UFC as well (but not for boxing)?

Washington goes full on -- .3, .7, whatever -- while California is inconsisent -- using only whole numbers for the Cain vs JDS 2 card, while the Rousey card used only even decimals (.2, .6, etc). OH SHIT THE SHADY INCONSISTENCY OF IT ALL!

Which ACs do you know of that ALWAYS use full decimals for UFC events? 

You morons have gone on and on for days about how absurd it is to throw out or round off decimals to the half without even realizing that even the Vegas events have been doing it, along with every event in Montreal and every event in Brazil, some events in California -- in fact, the MAJORITY of UFC events of at least the past couple years no matter where they are held and under whose jurisdiction....you were so thrilled to have something to complain about (just like Nick) that you didn't put an instant of thought into it.

So tell us, now that you know almost every jurisdiction rounds or discards the decimals, and almost every jurisdiction allows fighters an hour or more to make weight if they miss it the first time, has your righteous indignation faded at all?

3/29/13 1:06 PM
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orcus
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"Yes but this commissions rules say you do not get extra time....at least the on the record rules lol"

Was Nick going into this event thinking that he would not get extra time to make weight if he missed it? You think he read the Quebec rules? Nate got extra time when he missed it -- along with every other fighter at every other UFC event in every jurisdiction -- why wouldn't he?

More importantly, was anyone given extra time at this event? Again, what rule was broken?

 

3/29/13 1:14 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus -

"Yes but this commissions rules say you do not get extra time....at least the on the record rules lol"

Was Nick going into this event thinking that he would not get extra time to make weight if he missed it? You think he read the Quebec rules? Nate got extra time when he missed it -- along with every other fighter at every other UFC event in every jurisdiction -- why wouldn't he?

More importantly, was anyone given extra time at this event? Again, what rule was broken?

 

I wont speculate on what Nick knew and didn't know as it is irrelevant anyhow.

What is relevant is that Mr UFC came up and told Diaz camp about special "off the record" rules for him and GSP and then tried to deny the conversation ever happened. How you can not see an issue with that is beyond me...shill is the only reasonable explanation. Phone Post
3/29/13 1:26 PM
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orcus
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"What is relevant is that Mr UFC came up and told Diaz camp about special "off the record" rules for him and GSP and then tried to deny the conversation ever happened. How you can not see an issue with that is beyond me...shill is the only reasonable explanation."

What quote says he denied the conversation ever happened?

Is it possible that UFC guy misunderstood the AC policies?

Most importantly, what rules were broken at this event? 

Is the only "special" rule for GSP and Nick that they would be given an hour to make weight, much like every other fighter in every other UFC event ever held anywhere? Are you guys really so incensed that they *would have been* -- but were NOT -- given extra time to make weight if they missed it, exactly as has happened at every event, including Nick's brother's title fight, that you'll rant and rave for days on end about it? It just drives you up the wall that they'd have gotten an extra hour to retry if they had needed it, which they didn't?


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