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UnderGround Forums >> Quebec gives its BS statement re: the GSP weighin


3/27/13 1:51 AM
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Winston Wolf
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funny they used decimils then as long as poster boy made weight
3/27/13 1:51 AM
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orcus
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"why would nick worry when he already made weight was done sweating and was chilling knowing hes on weight NO they told him cause they knew damn well GSP was having trouble"

Since the announced weight would be 170 anyway, if GSP were having trouble, why tell Nick? He would never know. Why give a notorious, excuse-making crybaby something else to bitch about?

If the video were the UFC rep telling GSP that he could be 170.9, would you similarly think this meant they knew Diaz was having trouble making weight?

"Condit and Koz also didnt know about no .9 what a load of shit"

Did GSP?

3/27/13 1:55 AM
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orcus
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Winston Wolf - funny they used decimils then as long as poster boy made weight

Funny they used .5 decimals for two GSP events, no decimals for two non-GSP events, and no decimals for two other GSP events. 

Are you saying the main eventers in all four of those other events missed weight or were believed to be going to miss weight? Including the Anderson headlined one, for which he was announced as 182 for a 185 fight?

Are you saying the AC knew in advance that the main eventers were going to miss weight (but only by a little) and thus announced everyone's weight from the start of the card down with no decimals?

 

3/27/13 2:00 AM
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caposa
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Edited: 03/27/13 2:01 AM
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orcus -

For me, the part that is so bizarre about this is that people take Nick being told as suggestion that something was wrong with GSP.

 

We know they drop the decimals, so why tell Nick at all if they had reason to be concerned about GSP possibly being over? If he were 170.9 his weight would be announced as 170 and that would be the end of it.

If the video were GSP being told he could weigh 170.9, people would be outraged that he is being given license to "cheat".

But  the video is DIAZ being told HE could weigh 170.9 -- yet people somehow still take this as GSP being given license to "cheat".

See the problem? No matter what, it somehow looks "shady" in favor of GSP to you guys. 

By the way, my guess is that the reason the UFC rep -- he was not an AC rep -- told Nick about the allowance is because there was that fuckup with his brother at the Benson Henderson weighin that led to confusion from the Cesar camp and a last minute cut. The UFC rep in this case was letting Nick know he didn't have to worry about that. Not as exciting a theory, I know.

 

I don't really find it bizarre that people are thinking that way. The fight was taking place in the champion's home province, his last three title defenses took place under this same commission, he was admittedly injured coming into the fight, etc. If we were talking about Manny Pacquiao in the Philippines you would probably see the same type of stuff being said.

 

I think this "off the record" .9 lb allowance thing is complete garbage. It goes against the entire principle of being on exact weight for a title fight. At least fighters going into Montreal know the deal now.

 

3/27/13 2:05 AM
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orcus
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"I think this "off the record" .9 lb allowance thing is complete garbage. It goes against the entire principle of being on exact weight for a title fight. At least fighters going into Montreal know the deal now."

Personally I don't see why title fighters shouldn't get the allowance if the other fighters do in the first place. The whole point of it is to allow for scale inaccuracies; why should these not affect title fighters in exactly the same way as non-title fighters?

Do you not see the plausibility of the UFC rep telling Nick not to worry about being a little over in light of the issue with his brother's weighin a couple months earlier?

3/27/13 2:07 AM
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Winston Wolf
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if they were going to tell Nick that tell him months prior To tell uim an hour before when hes clearly already done sweating to make weight is bull crap.Why wait to tell him an hour before why not tell him a month before
3/27/13 2:09 AM
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Winston Wolf
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caposa - 
orcus -

For me, the part that is so bizarre about this is that people take Nick being told as suggestion that something was wrong with GSP.

 

We know they drop the decimals, so why tell Nick at all if they had reason to be concerned about GSP possibly being over? If he were 170.9 his weight would be announced as 170 and that would be the end of it.

If the video were GSP being told he could weigh 170.9, people would be outraged that he is being given license to "cheat".

But  the video is DIAZ being told HE could weigh 170.9 -- yet people somehow still take this as GSP being given license to "cheat".

See the problem? No matter what, it somehow looks "shady" in favor of GSP to you guys. 

By the way, my guess is that the reason the UFC rep -- he was not an AC rep -- told Nick about the allowance is because there was that fuckup with his brother at the Benson Henderson weighin that led to confusion from the Cesar camp and a last minute cut. The UFC rep in this case was letting Nick know he didn't have to worry about that. Not as exciting a theory, I know.

 

I don't really find it bizarre that people are thinking that way. The fight was taking place in the champion's home province, his last three title defenses took place under this same commission, he was admittedly injured coming into the fight, etc. If we were talking about Manny Pacquiao in the Philippines you would probably see the same type of stuff being said.

 

I think this "off the record" .9 lb allowance thing is complete garbage. It goes against the entire principle of being on exact weight for a title fight. At least fighters going into Montreal know the deal now.

 


there u go from by many accounts the forums best poster.By the way earlier today prior to seeing the video I thought the claim was utter bullshit and another excuse from Diaz.But after Caposa showed the video Well the video said it all
3/27/13 2:25 AM
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Fairly obvious he is referring to GSP thoughout the "off the record" conversation:

Mersh: "They're going to allow you and Georges to have an extra hour, just in case somebody doesn't make it. But the good news is, they don't count the decimal. If you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170."

Mersh: "Should be fine, hopefully, other than that. Just so you guys are in the loop, if there's ..."

As long as he's under 171, we should be good. But, there is a time period afterwards, for you and Georges only. All the other fighters have to make it the first time. Just letting you guys be in the loop, okay? Good luck

In other words; GSP should be fine, but if he comes in over do not be alarmed because they don't count the decimial, and even better still is that just the two of you would be allowed an hour to meet the weight, not any one else. Just  want you guys to know this in case.

This is hardly  formal on the record advice to DIaz about the protocols. It is an alert not to scream blue murder if GSP, who should be fine, shows a weight above 170, but even then if it is 170.9 it is not recorded and on top of that, an allowance has been made to still meet the weight with this exclusive given time frame.

Not Nick good news, the Commission here does not count decimals, if you are over by 0.9 lbs don't worry, even better Nick if you do go over you and George have been given an hour to make the weight.

Very simply and fairly clear.

3/27/13 2:31 AM
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caposa
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orcus - 

"I think this "off the record" .9 lb allowance thing is complete garbage. It goes against the entire principle of being on exact weight for a title fight. At least fighters going into Montreal know the deal now."

Personally I don't see why title fighters shouldn't get the allowance if the other fighters do in the first place. The whole point of it is to allow for scale inaccuracies; why should these not affect title fighters in exactly the same way as non-title fighters?

Do you not see the plausibility of the UFC rep telling Nick not to worry about being a little over in light of the issue with his brother's weighin a couple months earlier?


It's just the way it has always been. When a fight is being contested for the title of a specific weight-class, the fighter has to weigh-in exactly on the dot or under. Maybe to show that the fighter is truly prepared to contest for a belt at that weight? Who the hell knows.

And yes, of course it's possible that is why they were informing Nick. It just comes off as a little shady with the removing of the videos, Diaz's lawyer saying the Quebec officials swore there was "no special rules" regarding the weight after the fight, and then of course them changing their tune after the video is released.

It all doesn't matter, I'm done talking about it. Just another case of an athletic commission acting suspicious. Nothing we haven't seen before in combat sports.

3/27/13 2:42 AM
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orcus
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Fairly obvious he is referring to GSP thoughout the "off the record" conversation:

Mersh: "They're going to allow you and Georges to have an extra hour, just in case somebody doesn't make it. But the good news is, they don't count the decimal. If you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170."

Mersh: "Should be fine, hopefully, other than that. Just so you guys are in the loop, if there's ..."

As long as he's under 171, we should be good. But, there is a time period afterwards, for you and Georges only. All the other fighters have to make it the first time. Just letting you guys be in the loop, okay? Good luck

In other words; GSP should be fine, but if he comes in over do not be alarmed because they don't count the decimial, and even better still is that just the two of you would be allowed an hour to meet the weight, not any one else. Just  want you guys to know this in case.

This is hardly  formal on the record advice to DIaz about the protocols. It is an alert not to scream blue murder if GSP, who should be fine, shows a weight above 170, but even then if it is 170.9 it is not recorded and on top of that, an allowance has been made to still meet the weight with this exclusive given time frame.

Not Nick good news, the Commission here does not count decimals, if you are over by 0.9 lbs don't worry, even better Nick if you do go over you and George have been given an hour to make the weight.

Very simply and fairly clear.


"Fairly obvious he is referring to GSP thoughout the "off the record" conversation:"

Yes, like this to Nick: "If  you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170.""

"As long as he's under 171, we should be good."

He was talking to Nick's cornerman and referring to Nick. He even gestures at Nick when he says "he".

" even better still is that just the two of you would be allowed an hour to meet the weight, not any one else. Just  want you guys to know this in case."

Well we know that title fighters get more time to make the weight, even in the boxing matches in Montreal. 

"Not Nick good news, the Commission here does not count decimals, if you are over by 0.9 lbs don't worry, even better Nick if you do go over you and George have been given an hour to make the weight."

That's pretty much just what he said. You have to really twist it to make it about GSP.

"It is an alert not to scream blue murder if GSP, who should be fine, shows a weight above 170"

How would he show a weight above 170 when the guy looking at the scale announces 170? Nick's team isn't looking over his shoulder. And if they were, and if GSP had actually weighed 170.0001, Nick's team would certainly have been screaming about it by now.

3/27/13 2:46 AM
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Mersh: "They're going to allow you and Georges to have an extra hour, just in case somebody doesn't make it. But the good news is, they don't count the decimal. If you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170

The context is:  if one is ....170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170...Not if you nick are...

3/27/13 2:50 AM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/27/13 2:54 AM
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"And yes, of course it's possible that is why they were informing Nick. It just comes off as a little shady with the removing of the videos, Diaz's lawyer saying the Quebec officials swore there was "no special rules" regarding the weight after the fight, and then of course them changing their tune after the video is released."

Aren't all UFC-related videos automatically removed from Youtube?

Isn't saying there were no "special rules" referring to the fact that there were no rules specific to this fight or this event? Also, where did he say that?

The lawyer also said:

 

Furthermore, section 77 of the Regulation provides: “At an official weigh-in, no time shall be granted to a contestant to enable him to increase or decrease his weight.” It appears that here too, the Commission was prepared to relax this rule at the last minute in favour of Mr. St-Pierre.

 

Which is likewise inaccurate -- not just because the leniency was extended to Nick -- as we know that in a recent Bernard Hopkins title fight in Montreal, he had two hours to make weight after missing on the first attempt. This was no special rule for GSP, who of course did not miss weight in any case.

I'm a little puzzled as to what the motive of all this shadiness on GSP's behalf would even be. If he missed weight he would not be stripped of the title. He would not get an automatic loss to mar his record. The event would not be cancelled.  In fact it would even still be five rounds and they could have an immediate rematch if they wanted to, regardless of the outcome, with all that free publicity and media frenzy over the controversy.

Why would the UFC or the Quebec A.C. bend over backward and risk all of their credibility -- maybe even their entire business in the UFC's case -- when the only consequence of GSP missing weight would be that Diaz would get some of his money? Why would the AC or the UFC care about GSP having to give some money to Nick Diaz?

Fuck, if GSP missed weight, they could start yelling "see, he's too big for 170, time to make the Anderson fight!"

3/27/13 2:53 AM
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orcus
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Mersh: "They're going to allow you and Georges to have an extra hour, just in case somebody doesn't make it. But the good news is, they don't count the decimal. If you're 170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170

The context is:  if one is ....170.2 it's 170. If it's 170.9. it's 170...Not if you nick are...


Of course. The fact remains that nothing they said  implies that GSP is the one they think might miss weight.

You said it's "obvious" they're referring to GSP throughout the conversation, but everything the guy says either refers explicitly to both of them or just to Nick.

3/27/13 2:59 AM
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No he is not referring to Nick, once again context, it's followed immediately with an exclaimed but.

"As long as he's under 171, we should be good...BUT"

"...Should be fine, hopefully, other than that. Just so you guys are in the loop, if there's ..."

[someone?]"... should be fine hopefully...just so you guys are in the loop if there's..."[problem?]

This conversation is not directed at Nick and about Nick. Rather advice so they do not get hysterical...if there's a problem... Just so you guys are in the loop. No other reason Nick to advice you, just so you are in the loop is all.

Off the record of course.

3/27/13 3:01 AM
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The Shockmaster
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Diaz and his fans are bitch-made. This is just sad.
3/27/13 3:03 AM
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caposa
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Edited: 03/27/13 3:04 AM
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orcus - 

"And yes, of course it's possible that is why they were informing Nick. It just comes off as a little shady with the removing of the videos, Diaz's lawyer saying the Quebec officials swore there was "no special rules" regarding the weight after the fight, and then of course them changing their tune after the video is released."

Aren't all UFC-related videos automatically removed from Youtube?

Isn't saying there were no "special rules" referring to the fact that there were no rules specific to this fight or this event? Also, where did he say that?

Usually only videos containing copyrighted material are removed. For instance, the same friend of Nick's that uploaded the video we are talking about also put up another backstage video of UFC's Canadian PR rep. That vid is still up as of right now. http://www.youtube.com/user/NickMcD

 

The lawyer said these things on Twitter this afternoon. After Stephane Patry's tweets, Ariel Helwani said:

9h

Biggest unknown now? Even if Nick was told 30 mins before, why not raise a stink then? Why wait until a week later, after a loss, too.

 

to which Tweedale (Diaz's lawyer) responded with:

9h

Raised issue w/ Michel Hamelin at 9:12 pm, March 15. His response: "the weight was 170". Then video emerged.

Mr Hamelin et al had ample time to come clean. Even yesterday he texted to me: "The were no specials rules !"

3/27/13 3:05 AM
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"In the loop": to have the special knowledge or power that belongs to a particular group of people

"off the record": unofficial; informal

"As long as he's under 171, we should be good. But, there is a time period afterwards, for you and Georges only. All the other fighters have to make it the first time. Just letting you guys be in the loop, okay? Good luck!"l"

3/27/13 3:22 AM
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Edited: 03/27/13 3:22 AM
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What do you suppose motivated all of this?

1. UFC approaches the Commission several hours before the weigh-ins and asks what can we do to ensure this very important fight take place not matter what

2.  Cesear Gracie approaches the Commission and humbly submits his fight is suffering from jet lag and lack of sleep what can the Commission do to accomedate him if he is over a fraction.

3. GSP approaches the Commission and humbly submits he is suffering from flue and lack of sleep what can the Commission do to accomedate him if he is over a fraction..

What motivated the Commission to off the record kind of thing provide the good news that decimals do not count and only these two fighters would be allowed an hour to make the weight if they missed it.

 
3/27/13 3:29 AM
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orcus
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"No he is not referring to Nick,"

You are wrong. He is referring to Nick.

Here's what's actually said to Nick's cornerman after he asks why they weren't told before:

 

“Well, no,” he says. “It’s just something to keep in mind. That’s kind of an off the record type of thing. But keep that in mind. As long as he’s [gesturing at Nick] under 171, we should be good. But there is a time period afterwards, for you and Georges only. All the other fighters have to make it the first time. Just letting you guys be in the loop, okay?”

" No other reason Nick to advice you, just so you are in the loop is all."

Yeah, so you're in the loop, so if you miss weight (which is anything under 171), you know that you have the time to cut, so don't start panicking and thinking you blew your title shot.

"This conversation is not directed at Nick and about Nick."

Everything that is actually said, and not guessed at, contradicts this statement.

"Mr Hamelin et al had ample time to come clean. Even yesterday he texted to me: "The were no specials rules !""

Yeah, no special rules for this fight. Just the usual "discard the decimal" rule that has applied to 4 of the 6 Montreal UFC events (the other two instead rounding to .5).

3/27/13 3:36 AM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/27/13 3:45 AM
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What do you suppose motivated all of this?

1. UFC approaches the Commission several hours before the weigh-ins and asks what can we do to ensure this very important fight take place not matter what

2.  Cesear Gracie approaches the Commission and humbly submits his fight is suffering from jet lag and lack of sleep what can the Commission do to accomedate him if he is over a fraction.

3. GSP approaches the Commission and humbly submits he is suffering from flue and lack of sleep what can the Commission do to accomedate him if he is over a fraction..

What motivated the Commission to off the record kind of thing provide the good news that decimals do not count and only these two fighters would be allowed an hour to make the weight if they missed it.

 

 

First of all, the commission did not provide the "good news", the UFC rep did.

 

But I would guess what motivated the commission to allow such stipulations would be that:

 

1) As in 4 of the past 6 UFC events in Montreal, decimals are discarded by policy. 

2) We know that the regulations say that fighters do not get extra time to make missed weight. But we also know that this rule is relaxed for title fights at least on occasion, as both Bernard Hopkins and his opponent were given additional time after missing weight on their first try, so again this appears to not be an unusual policy for the Quebec AC. And by the way, the Hopkins fight was covered by all mainstream sports media and no one remarked on the title fighter being given time to make weight.

So in other words nothing out of the ordinary was done or was suggested might be done, so the motivation to do things how they usually do them would be that that's how they typically do them.

Now let me ask you, what would motivate the UFC and the Quebec A.C. to risk their reputations, legal action, and possible collapse of their business and/or criminal charges in the UFC's case just to prevent GSP from *possibly* missing weight? Literally the only thing that would have changed would be that the belt would not be on the line in the fight -- thus their posterboy would not have lost his title even if Nick somehow managed to win -- and they would have built-in mega-buzz for an immediate rematch (no matter who won) if they wanted to.

Further, given the above, what would motivate the UFC to tell Nick about these policies, given the fact that if they hadn't told him, he would have had no way of knowing anything was out of the ordinary?

 

3/27/13 3:56 AM
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Edited: 03/27/13 3:56 AM
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We have to assume the fight contract is a UFC one between ND and GSP in accordance with the UFC's rules which include making the exact  weight with zero allowance to correct on failure there after.

Did the Quebec Commission a their discretion, which below appears to suggest that they are entitled to, re-classify the weight class from 170 to 170.9 and under? If so is this reflected in the fight contract. Which provision of either of theirs allows for an hour to correct the missed weight on top of that?

How is it that as quite clearly seen in the video, it is all a surprise to Nick and his team? How is it that Condit was never afforded any of this at his fight.

That may not answer the question rather introduce a new one. If Nick, GSP or the UFC did not  prompt the Commission to merely hours before weigh-in, summarily advise everyone of this unique decimal rounding and hour allotment to make weight, what did on this particular occassion? Clearly whatever it was didn't occur when Condit was fighting because he was never informed about any of this at his time to fight.

Did they simply forget? Simply not feel like doing so at the time? Other?

UFC's very own rules:

http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

Except with the approval of the Commission, or its executive director, the classes for mixed martial arts contests or exhibitions and the weights for each class shall be:

Flyweight 125 pounds and under
Bantamweight over 125 to 135 pounds
Featherweight over 135 to 145 pounds
Lightweight over 145 to 155 pounds
Welterweight over 155 to 170 pounds
Middleweight over 170 to 185 pounds
Light Heavyweight over 185 to 205 pounds
Heavyweight over 205 to 265 pounds
Super Heavyweight over 265 pounds

In non-championship fights, there shall be allowed a 1 pound weigh allowance. In championship fights, the participants must weigh no more than that permitted for the relevant weight division.

3/27/13 8:17 AM
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Mike Russell
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BernardHopkins - gsp cut the most he possibly could and weighed in at 170.7

biggest cut of his career, which is why he gassed in the 3rd

he got down to 171 and refused to cut the last pound, and he runs his country...so yea.

Source? Phone Post
3/27/13 8:21 AM
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Winston Wolf
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caposa - 
orcus - 

"And yes, of course it's possible that is why they were informing Nick. It just comes off as a little shady with the removing of the videos, Diaz's lawyer saying the Quebec officials swore there was "no special rules" regarding the weight after the fight, and then of course them changing their tune after the video is released."

Aren't all UFC-related videos automatically removed from Youtube?

Isn't saying there were no "special rules" referring to the fact that there were no rules specific to this fight or this event? Also, where did he say that?

Usually only videos containing copyrighted material are removed. For instance, the same friend of Nick's that uploaded the video we are talking about also put up another backstage video of UFC's Canadian PR rep. That vid is still up as of right now. http://www.youtube.com/user/NickMcD

 

The lawyer said these things on Twitter this afternoon. After Stephane Patry's tweets, Ariel Helwani said:

9h

Biggest unknown now? Even if Nick was told 30 mins before, why not raise a stink then? Why wait until a week later, after a loss, too.

 

to which Tweedale (Diaz's lawyer) responded with:

9h

Raised issue w/ Michel Hamelin at 9:12 pm, March 15. His response: "the weight was 170". Then video emerged.

Mr Hamelin et al had ample time to come clean. Even yesterday he texted to me: "The were no specials rules !"


3/27/13 8:23 AM
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Winston Wolf
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orcus - 

"And yes, of course it's possible that is why they were informing Nick. It just comes off as a little shady with the removing of the videos, Diaz's lawyer saying the Quebec officials swore there was "no special rules" regarding the weight after the fight, and then of course them changing their tune after the video is released."

Aren't all UFC-related videos automatically removed from Youtube?

Isn't saying there were no "special rules" referring to the fact that there were no rules specific to this fight or this event? Also, where did he say that?

The lawyer also said:

 

Furthermore, section 77 of the Regulation provides: “At an official weigh-in, no time shall be granted to a contestant to enable him to increase or decrease his weight.” It appears that here too, the Commission was prepared to relax this rule at the last minute in favour of Mr. St-Pierre.

 

Which is likewise inaccurate -- not just because the leniency was extended to Nick -- as we know that in a recent Bernard Hopkins title fight in Montreal, he had two hours to make weight after missing on the first attempt. This was no special rule for GSP, who of course did not miss weight in any case.

I'm a little puzzled as to what the motive of all this shadiness on GSP's behalf would even be. If he missed weight he would not be stripped of the title. He would not get an automatic loss to mar his record. The event would not be cancelled.  In fact it would even still be five rounds and they could have an immediate rematch if they wanted to, regardless of the outcome, with all that free publicity and media frenzy over the controversy.

Why would the UFC or the Quebec A.C. bend over backward and risk all of their credibility -- maybe even their entire business in the UFC's case -- when the only consequence of GSP missing weight would be that Diaz would get some of his money? Why would the AC or the UFC care about GSP having to give some money to Nick Diaz?

Fuck, if GSP missed weight, they could start yelling "see, he's too big for 170, time to make the Anderson fight!"


seriously u have no brain.If their golden boy missed wieght it would have ruined the event and been a non title fight They obviously for many reasons didnt want that
3/27/13 11:19 AM
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orcus
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"seriously u have no brain.If their golden boy missed wieght it would have ruined the event and been a non title fight They obviously for many reasons didnt want that"

Tell me how making it a 5 round non-title fight "ruins the event"


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