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UnderGround Forums >> Quebec gives its BS statement re: the GSP weighin


3/27/13 11:36 AM
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wheeels
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Wow, Diaz is either a whiny bitch or Brazilian

who knew!
3/27/13 12:19 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

People that are crying about GSP or the commission don't like to pay attention to posts like this....

From another thread......

"vilGumby - I cornered a fighter for a title fight in a non-UFC regional promotion in Canada back in 2008 and back then the 170.X rule was in place. It was a in fact a welter weight title fight in that promotion and our opponent came in heavy (we came in at 169 if I remember correctly).

I argued long and loud both for a purse percentage as well as for our opponent to have to cut to 170.0. He was allowed to cut to 170.9 and allowed the fight with no penalties (as a title fight). Ultimately I sat down at the weigh-ins with both the commission as well as their lawyer and was told that 170.X was 170 and that was the way it was going to be. "The commission had spoken, case closed, etc."

This was at the Max Bell Center in Calgary, Alberta in 2008. Promotion was not UFC but it was the Canadian commission and this was their policy back then."

 


Alberta is not Quebec.
3/27/13 12:23 PM
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orcus
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"Alberta is not Quebec."

Surely you agree that shows that this may be a policy in Canada -- "off the record" or not -- and not something that was made up on the spot to save an overweight GSP. Especially in light of the round numbers at all Montreal UFCs.

3/27/13 12:29 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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orcus - 

"Alberta is not Quebec."

Surely you agree that shows that this may be a policy in Canada -- "off the record" or not -- and not something that was made up on the spot to save an overweight GSP. Especially in light of the round numbers at all Montreal UFCs.


I honestly don't know...I'm just pointing out that everyone is using that Calgary statement as an example when it's an entirely different commission.
3/27/13 12:30 PM
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Curtis_E_Bare
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Edited: 03/27/13 12:31 PM
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Quote - "Alberta is not Quebec."

No, but they are both in Canada and Canada uses metric. The scales used by Quebec AC (and presumably other ACs) are required to go to 0.1 kg only. 0.1 kg is 0.22 lbs.

This means that if they were to report the weight to the tenths position decimal place it would be in increments of 0.2. Weights would be listed as 170.0, 170.2 etc.

They probably decided to ignore the decimal in part due to the confusion it would create. Which seems to work everywhere except the UG, where it's a conspiracy five years in the making and took the analytical mind of Nick Diaz to expose.
3/27/13 12:30 PM
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caposa
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JimmersonzGlove - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

People that are crying about GSP or the commission don't like to pay attention to posts like this....

From another thread......

"vilGumby - I cornered a fighter for a title fight in a non-UFC regional promotion in Canada back in 2008 and back then the 170.X rule was in place. It was a in fact a welter weight title fight in that promotion and our opponent came in heavy (we came in at 169 if I remember correctly).

I argued long and loud both for a purse percentage as well as for our opponent to have to cut to 170.0. He was allowed to cut to 170.9 and allowed the fight with no penalties (as a title fight). Ultimately I sat down at the weigh-ins with both the commission as well as their lawyer and was told that 170.X was 170 and that was the way it was going to be. "The commission had spoken, case closed, etc."

This was at the Max Bell Center in Calgary, Alberta in 2008. Promotion was not UFC but it was the Canadian commission and this was their policy back then."

 


Alberta is not Quebec.

You are 100% right I didn't even catch that. I just saw "Bell Center".

All Canadians must be in on this. How far does the rabbit hole go?

3/27/13 12:45 PM
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caposa
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Edited: 03/27/13 12:47 PM
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove -

I'm aware, but there are also multiple examples of UFC events taking place in Montreal, under the same commission, and the GSP haters won't address those either.  I mean, weigh in videos have been posted from previous events showing the commission omitted all decimals while calling out the weights, but idiots like Winston Wolf will still say this whole ordeal was to protect the 'golden boy' as if UFC 158 was the first time it's happened.

As I've brought up, where's the outcry for the Shogun vs Machida fight?  Machida weighed in at 204 and Shogun weighed in at 205, but for all any of you know Shogun (who won by KO) really weighed in at 205.2 or 205.6 or 205.9, yet we'd never know because the commission didn't address decimals.  Big shocker (sarcasm) that's it's the Diaz camp crying about this and not Machida's camp.  Machida knew he lost, took it like a man, and didn't feel the need to make an issue.

Did video leak of an official informing Shogun or Machida about a .9 pound allowance? Because if it did, maybe you would have seen an uproar then too.

3/27/13 1:06 PM
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orcus
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He may be asking why there is no uproar NOW.

" Because if it did, maybe you would have seen an uproar then too."

No, neither Machida nor his fans suddenly become sticklers for a few ounces when it suits them.

Similarly, Anderson weighed in at 182 to Thales Leites' 185 for their title fight in Montreal. Leites may have been as much as 185.9, we now know. 

Should all these past fights be changed to non-title fights?

3/27/13 3:04 PM
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SilentSamurai8
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku -
nineohfive - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
nineohfive - Who cares?

Diaz fans will dig for anything. It's funny they can't just listen to him talk after the fight and laugh.

-missed open workouts, got in late. every other fighter from the States made it, but not nick's fault.
-slept till 8pm. wasn't awake yet.
-had no help in training
-felt flat out there, lost 5 rounds but is ready to go now
-gsp's wraps were loaded
-we were lied to about the scale
-gsp hits like a girl, he wants a rematch (2 fight losing streak)

this isnt about nick..its about a potential abusive practice that is being used to favor one fighter over another.


you mean like allowing one fighter to skip all press events and workouts while the other must attend?

.......

no..thats not governed by the athletic commission that is charged with enforcing the rules..so that is different subject for discussion

How about trying to give shots after the bell? Phone Post
3/27/13 7:37 PM
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sadisticsoldier
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Whether the rule has been in place for years or not, it doesn't matter. It makes no sense and it's wrong. What is the point of disregarding decimals? Also, to not tell a fighter is wrong. I'm trying not to make this about GSP and Diaz, however GSP has fought there many times, Diaz has not. You have to figure GSP and his camp know about it already. Condit says he was never told at all. Diaz was told after he had already cut weight. So automatically there is an advantage for GSP in these fights, or anyone else that knows about it before cutting while their opponents don't know.
3/27/13 7:56 PM
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orcus
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sadisticsoldier - Whether the rule has been in place for years or not, it doesn't matter. It makes no sense and it's wrong. What is the point of disregarding decimals? Also, to not tell a fighter is wrong. I'm trying not to make this about GSP and Diaz, however GSP has fought there many times, Diaz has not. You have to figure GSP and his camp know about it already. Condit says he was never told at all. Diaz was told after he had already cut weight. So automatically there is an advantage for GSP in these fights, or anyone else that knows about it before cutting while their opponents don't know.

If Condit and Koscheck were never told, and in fact never knew until now, why would you think GSP would know? GSP and Condit were both Jackson guys, how would Greg Jackson and his fighters not know this after GSP had fought there so many times, if GSP had been told?

3/27/13 8:11 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Jesus Orcus is desperate.

 

So far he is trying to push:

"Who cares if the have 'off the record' rules that are not in writting"

"They probably have done stuff like this many times before"

"Who cares anyhow, GSP was "officially" 170 so that's fact and blah blah blah"

 

You're are right Orcus, nothing wrong at all with what went down. Everyone raising concern all over the MMA media, and the fans here, are 100% wrong and should just accept that Orcus says it's no big deal. Let's ignore that the same commission counted the decimal in multiple combat sporting events over the past few years. All these reports and articles are bullshit and those journalists and the lawyer representing Diaz know NOTHING compared to Orcus. We should just delete all these threads and forget it ever happened. Nothing to see here....move along folks.

 

 

 

3/27/13 8:30 PM
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orcus
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What a pathetic strawman, I expected better of you. I guess your dislike of GSP has pushed you over the edge in this case.

3/27/13 8:31 PM
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clown makeup
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It has curiously morphed into a straight forward courtesy of the UFC and the Commission to inform Nick based in his past weight making failures and that of his brother's, that Nick need not worry if he does not make weight because he will be given an hour to remedy it if he does so. And even better news would be that if he is over by 0.9 lbs, it would not be reflected and he would not have to do anything. Further, instead of thanking them profusely, typically of Nick Diaz's behavior they ask why they were not informed much earlier when they could take advantage of all of this. Typical ingrates.

And of course due to the reliability of Condit always making weight, the UFC and the Commission did not feel the need to advise him of this since he would never ever miss weight and neither has his sister or his brother, their spouses and even their in-laws.

3/27/13 8:35 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

What a pathetic strawman, I expected better of you. I guess your dislike of GSP has pushed you over the edge in this case.


I could care less who the fighters in question are. I am not a fan of commissions making up "off the record" rules, and this is the first I have heard of this.

3/27/13 8:43 PM
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Aiderbooze
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I'm really not sure why so many people are having trouble grasping this.

They never technically said that you are "allowed" to go to 170.9 lbs. They said that they do not count the decimal. Meaning they are only reading whole numbers.

The contract reportedly (according to Diaz' lawyer) states that the weight is indeed 170lbs, however it has not been confirmed that it states the tolerances in which this is measured. I'm going to guess that is where the AC's procedures come in.

While I won't argue that telling someone this shortly before the fight is a little weird, I'm going to guess the ultimate responsibility for reading and understanding the rules and differences between AC's is the job of the fighter and/or their team.

My question would be: Does this AC have specific policies and procedures spelled out mentioning how they handle fighter weights that could be provided, rather than going by listening to some guy saying something is "off the record". If their official policies stating otherwise, then that is when there would be cause for concern.
3/27/13 8:47 PM
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clown makeup
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Edited: 03/27/13 8:50 PM
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That just it, it is abnormal and suggests it was trotted out at the very last minute in anticipation of someone not making weight. Nothing more nothing less. That who remains to be seen.

Some will have you believe it is Nick based on his past failures and that of his brothers, others will have you believe it is GSP who under doctor advisement had to retain fluids in order to combat his simmering flu.

3/27/13 8:54 PM
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Aiderbooze
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That just it, it is abnormal and suggests it was trotted out at the very last minute in anticipation of someone not making weight. Nothing more nothing less. That who remains to be seen.

Some will have you believe it is Nick based on his past failures and that of his brothers, others will have you believe it is GSP who under doctor advisement had to retain fluids in order to combat his simmering flu.


The "not counting the decimal" thing is either an actual procedure or it isn't. If it is, and it is written somewhere that could have been referenced prior to the fight, then there really is no issue.

I'd have a hard time believing that an athletic commission would not have to explicitly spell out the procedures they use for things....It would seem to be part of the reason why AC's exist.
3/27/13 8:58 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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That just it, it is abnormal and suggests it was trotted out at the very last minute in anticipation of someone not making weight. Nothing more nothing less. That who remains to be seen.

Some will have you believe it is Nick based on his past failures and that of his brothers, others will have you believe it is GSP who under doctor advisement had to retain fluids in order to combat his simmering flu.


The "not counting the decimal" thing is either an actual procedure or it isn't. If it is, and it is written somewhere that could have been referenced prior to the fight, then there really is no issue.

I'd have a hard time believing that an athletic commission would not have to explicitly spell out the procedures they use for things....It would seem to be part of the reason why AC's exist.

If it was in writting somewhere in the athletic commissions policies they would 100% have already pointed that out in their responses. They have not done so despite AMPLE time and opportunity.

3/27/13 9:05 PM
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Aiderbooze
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Aiderbooze - 
clown makeup - 

That just it, it is abnormal and suggests it was trotted out at the very last minute in anticipation of someone not making weight. Nothing more nothing less. That who remains to be seen.

Some will have you believe it is Nick based on his past failures and that of his brothers, others will have you believe it is GSP who under doctor advisement had to retain fluids in order to combat his simmering flu.


The "not counting the decimal" thing is either an actual procedure or it isn't. If it is, and it is written somewhere that could have been referenced prior to the fight, then there really is no issue.

I'd have a hard time believing that an athletic commission would not have to explicitly spell out the procedures they use for things....It would seem to be part of the reason why AC's exist.

If it was in writting somewhere in the athletic commissions policies they would 100% have already pointed that out in their responses. They have not done so despite AMPLE time and opportunity.


I don't disagree with you at all. They must have some sort of policy written....or you'd think they would have to. If I were part of a fighters management or their legal team I'd think it was my job to review that sort of thing as the AC procedures do vary a bit from place to place.

Again, as you said, if they do have official procedures stating the "no decimal" rule, you'd think they would have provided that by now. However if they have something saying otherwise, I'd guess somebody would have come out with that also.

3/27/13 9:30 PM
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orcus
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The AC regs say nothing at all about  to what decimal place the weights have to go, or what rounding is to be used or is not allowed. Nothing says they have to go to the first decimal place; likewise, nothing says they have to discard the decimals.

Discarding the decimals is not against the regs. Nor is it something that happened only for this event. In fact it is not even limited to the Quebec, or even Canadian, events -- they do it for the Brazil UFCs too. 

3/27/13 9:42 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

The AC regs say nothing at all about  to what decimal place the weights have to go, or what rounding is to be used or is not allowed. Nothing says they have to go to the first decimal place; likewise, nothing says they have to discard the decimals.

Discarding the decimals is not against the regs. Nor is it something that happened only for this event. In fact it is not even limited to the Quebec, or even Canadian, events -- they do it for the Brazil UFCs too. 


You can stop. It is obvious that you're going to spew this same nonsense over and over.

 

The Brazil cards were NOT governed by an athletic commission AT ALL until the Belfort/Bisping card so that point is completely irrelevant.

 

This discussion is NOT about the UFC, nor about other events in the world. It is supposed to be about the MONTREAL commission that has in fact used decimals in combat sports including MMA over the past year or two. For some ODD reason they have this unwritten rule that decimals don't count in certain events when they feel like it.

3/28/13 12:56 AM
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TheLuckyMilkMan
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havent watched the fight, only the post fight interview... based solely on that i would have tried to help GSP cheat (again ala greasgate) if i could just to make sure diaz lost. it was the most pathetic thing i have witnessed in a very long time. i will watch the fight very soon
3/28/13 1:06 AM
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Bick Koxer
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who gives a flying fuck. has GSP ever not made weight? Phone Post
3/28/13 1:54 AM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/28/13 2:03 AM
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"You can stop. It is obvious that you're going to spew this same nonsense over and over."

No, everything I said is factually correct. The regs don't say the weights have to include the decimals, nor were the decimals discarded only for this event.

However your comment "whenever they feel like it" is certainly unfounded. For all you know, RIngside MMA and the boxing promoters specifically requested the full numbers including decimal points be used, while the UFC prefers the round numbers and CONSISTENTLY use them when they have the option -- as in Montreal and Brazil.

"This discussion is NOT about the UFC"

Oh my bad, all these posts are because people all of a suddenly woke up and realized they don't like the idea of rounding weights, on principle, after it's been done publicly in one event after another for five years? It's not about the UFC, but the UFC is apparently the only promotion for which the AC does it according to you?

"The Brazil cards were NOT governed by an athletic commission AT ALL until the Belfort/Bisping card so that point is completely irrelevant."

When you, in post after post, imply that something unique happened in this event -- oh sorry, "certain events whenever they feel like it" -- but we see the same thing done in many other events and not just limited to this AC -- it certainly is relevant. 

Why don't you just say you don't like weights being rounded, period, and quit pretending this was a unique event?

 


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