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UnderGround Forums >> Why D.Cruz should be stripped


3/28/13 12:28 AM
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FinestScotch
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Pretty simple, really... anything over 1 year is WAY too long to hold an un-defended title. Over 6 months is pushing it, in my opinion.

That's the tertiary point.

The secondary point is that Renan is the active champ - he has been defending the active belt, and holds a win over Cruz' last defense, giving great legitamacy. If Tominick Cruise retires tomorrow, then suddenly, Renan has been defending the *real* belt, when looked at in retrospect.

The key point is money - Renan DESERVES full-champion money, because unlike several others who have held an interim belt (or title-shot ticket that lets you refuse any fights - see Condit, among others), he acts like his interim belt is the real thing - one of the rare breed who believes in his skills and is confident enough to take on all comers, as if he were the "real" champ. Which, in my opinion, is what that makes him.

All this being said, the worst case scenario for Dominick is that he fights the same guy he would be fighting anyways upon his return - if Renan's excellent attitude happens to lose him the interim, he can fight that guy. There is absolutely no drawback to stripping someone after 1.5 years of non-defense with the promise of an immidiate shot upon his return. I mean, he's got the commentary gig... it's not like he's going broke in the interim. But Renan's losing that legit champ paper.

 

Strip Dominick with the promise of a shot when he's healthy. It's so very simple, and Renan gets the cash he's so bravely earned.

 

What say you?

3/28/13 12:31 AM
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JTA420
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3/28/13 12:32 AM
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Letibleu
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In the UFC contract it stipulates title defense must happen a MINIMUM of once every 12 months or face being stripped.

Also, when the interim belt holder has defended the title more often than the actual title holder, is he still the actual title holder?

3/28/13 12:34 AM
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Global Shield
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No.

Thats why we have interim titles. If the champ were to not be able to ever make a return, the interim champ is there to take over.

It's a number one contender belt, but in a sense you are the champ until the REAL champ gets back to action. I believe the real champ should get the title fight vs interim champ when he returns because he obviously earned it.

The only time I see someone getting stripped of a title is for very few reasons including... 1. Refusing to defend the belt.. or 2. Testing positive for PEDS. Phone Post
3/28/13 12:42 AM
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FinestScotch
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Letibleu - 

In the UFC contract it stipulates title defense must happen a MINIMUM of once every 12 months or face being stripped.

Also, when the interim belt holder has defended the title more often than the actual title holder, is he still the actual title holder?


Exactly.

 

I love how people say no but address nothing of relevance.

3/28/13 12:48 AM
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FinestScotch
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He gets healthy and comes back to a title shot, why is this such a travesty to some after 1.5 years?

 

Would your opinion be different if Renan sat on that belt? He wouldn't be the first.

3/28/13 12:50 AM
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UGCTT_Song2
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Cruz is the real champ until he returns. Every fighter knows that even barao Phone Post
3/28/13 12:51 AM
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UGCTT_Song2
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Global Shield - No.

Thats why we have interim titles. If the champ were to not be able to ever make a return, the interim champ is there to take over.

It's a number one contender belt, but in a sense you are the champ until the REAL champ gets back to action. I believe the real champ should get the title fight vs interim champ when he returns because he obviously earned it.

The only time I see someone getting stripped of a title is for very few reasons including... 1. Refusing to defend the belt.. or 2. Testing positive for PEDS. Phone Post
I agree Phone Post
3/28/13 12:52 AM
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UltimatePower
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FinestScotch - 

Pretty simple, really... anything over 1 year is WAY too long to hold an un-defended title. Over 6 months is pushing it, in my opinion.

That's the tertiary point.

The secondary point is that Renan is the active champ - he has been defending the active belt, and holds a win over Cruz' last defense, giving great legitamacy. If Tominick Cruise retires tomorrow, then suddenly, Renan has been defending the *real* belt, when looked at in retrospect.

The key point is money - Renan DESERVES full-champion money, because unlike several others who have held an interim belt (or title-shot ticket that lets you refuse any fights - see Condit, among others), he acts like his interim belt is the real thing - one of the rare breed who believes in his skills and is confident enough to take on all comers, as if he were the "real" champ. Which, in my opinion, is what that makes him.

All this being said, the worst case scenario for Dominick is that he fights the same guy he would be fighting anyways upon his return - if Renan's excellent attitude happens to lose him the interim, he can fight that guy. There is absolutely no drawback to stripping someone after 1.5 years of non-defense with the promise of an immidiate shot upon his return. I mean, he's got the commentary gig... it's not like he's going broke in the interim. But Renan's losing that legit champ paper.

 

Strip Dominick with the promise of a shot when he's healthy. It's so very simple, and Renan gets the cash he's so bravely earned.

 

What say you?


I tend to believe if a man earns something he has the right to keep it.

That being said, in the case of a combat sport where title defenses are necessary to clarify the abilities of competitors, stripping Cruz would invalidates their abilities. For example, if Cruz is stripped and Barao named new champ, Barao would lose value. No matter how many wins he amasses, he never defeated the linear champ. Critics would point to this as evidence of him not being the true champion. I would not want to be a champion that way, unless Cruz retires. I'd want to earn it like the guys before me. Although, I am sympathetic to an extremely long delay, as Barao has to wait to test his skills. But...

This is fighting. Want the belt? Go take it from the guy who has it.
3/28/13 12:53 AM
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Pessimist_Pete
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3/28/13 12:57 AM
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Letibleu
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FinestScotch - 
Letibleu - 

In the UFC contract it stipulates title defense must happen a MINIMUM of once every 12 months or face being stripped.

Also, when the interim belt holder has defended the title more often than the actual title holder, is he still the actual title holder?


Exactly.

 

I love how people say no but address nothing of relevance.


Its not a knock on Dom but the devision marches on. He will probably want a tune up fight anyway when he comes back.

3/28/13 12:58 AM
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FinestScotch
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UltimatePower - 
FinestScotch - 

Pretty simple, really... anything over 1 year is WAY too long to hold an un-defended title. Over 6 months is pushing it, in my opinion.

That's the tertiary point.

The secondary point is that Renan is the active champ - he has been defending the active belt, and holds a win over Cruz' last defense, giving great legitamacy. If Tominick Cruise retires tomorrow, then suddenly, Renan has been defending the *real* belt, when looked at in retrospect.

The key point is money - Renan DESERVES full-champion money, because unlike several others who have held an interim belt (or title-shot ticket that lets you refuse any fights - see Condit, among others), he acts like his interim belt is the real thing - one of the rare breed who believes in his skills and is confident enough to take on all comers, as if he were the "real" champ. Which, in my opinion, is what that makes him.

All this being said, the worst case scenario for Dominick is that he fights the same guy he would be fighting anyways upon his return - if Renan's excellent attitude happens to lose him the interim, he can fight that guy. There is absolutely no drawback to stripping someone after 1.5 years of non-defense with the promise of an immidiate shot upon his return. I mean, he's got the commentary gig... it's not like he's going broke in the interim. But Renan's losing that legit champ paper.

 

Strip Dominick with the promise of a shot when he's healthy. It's so very simple, and Renan gets the cash he's so bravely earned.

 

What say you?


I tend to believe if a man earns something he has the right to keep it.

That being said, in the case of a combat sport where title defenses are necessary to clarify the abilities of competitors, stripping Cruz would invalidates their abilities. For example, if Cruz is stripped and Barao named new champ, Barao would lose value. No matter how many wins he amasses, he never defeated the linear champ. Critics would point to this as evidence of him not being the true champion. I would not want to be a champion that way, unless Cruz retires. I'd want to earn it like the guys before me. Although, I am sympathetic to an extremely long delay, as Barao has to wait to test his skills. But...

This is fighting. Want the belt? Go take it from the guy who has it.

So if the UFC announces:

"A UFC champ is contractually obligated to defend his belt once every 12-months. We have given Cruz 18, and it has become apparent his injuries have not fully healed.

We will be awarding the true belt to the interim holder - Renan Barao - and Cruz will be given an immidiate shot, should he recover"

How is that so different than Cruz retiring from these injuries?

 

Should he go beat Cruz up during his next rehab session to "take it from the guy who has it"?

3/28/13 12:59 AM
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FinestScotch
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Letibleu - 
FinestScotch - 
Letibleu - 

In the UFC contract it stipulates title defense must happen a MINIMUM of once every 12 months or face being stripped.

Also, when the interim belt holder has defended the title more often than the actual title holder, is he still the actual title holder?


Exactly.

 

I love how people say no but address nothing of relevance.


Its not a knock on Dom but the devision marches on. He will probably want a tune up fight anyway when he comes back.


Not at all a knock on Cruz.

 

Always funny to me that people bitch about UFC pay, and are watching a man get less than he deserves because another man can't fight for 18+months.

3/28/13 1:04 AM
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HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe
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FinestScotch -

Pretty simple, really... anything over 1 year is WAY too long to hold an un-defended title. Over 6 months is pushing it, in my opinion.

That's the tertiary point.

The secondary point is that Renan is the active champ - he has been defending the active belt, and holds a win over Cruz' last defense, giving great legitamacy. If Tominick Cruise retires tomorrow, then suddenly, Renan has been defending the *real* belt, when looked at in retrospect.

The key point is money - Renan DESERVES full-champion money, because unlike several others who have held an interim belt (or title-shot ticket that lets you refuse any fights - see Condit, among others), he acts like his interim belt is the real thing - one of the rare breed who believes in his skills and is confident enough to take on all comers, as if he were the "real" champ. Which, in my opinion, is what that makes him.

All this being said, the worst case scenario for Dominick is that he fights the same guy he would be fighting anyways upon his return - if Renan's excellent attitude happens to lose him the interim, he can fight that guy. There is absolutely no drawback to stripping someone after 1.5 years of non-defense with the promise of an immidiate shot upon his return. I mean, he's got the commentary gig... it's not like he's going broke in the interim. But Renan's losing that legit champ paper.

 

Strip Dominick with the promise of a shot when he's healthy. It's so very simple, and Renan gets the cash he's so bravely earned.

 

What say you?

Renen doesn't just automatically make more money once he's the undisputed champion. He'll have to wait for his contract to end either way. Then when he negotiates his new contract, I don't see him making much more being the champ that never actually beat the champ, than being the interim champ still waiting to fight he champ. Phone Post
3/28/13 1:04 AM
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UltimatePower
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FinestScotch - 
UltimatePower - 
FinestScotch - 

Pretty simple, really... anything over 1 year is WAY too long to hold an un-defended title. Over 6 months is pushing it, in my opinion.

That's the tertiary point.

The secondary point is that Renan is the active champ - he has been defending the active belt, and holds a win over Cruz' last defense, giving great legitamacy. If Tominick Cruise retires tomorrow, then suddenly, Renan has been defending the *real* belt, when looked at in retrospect.

The key point is money - Renan DESERVES full-champion money, because unlike several others who have held an interim belt (or title-shot ticket that lets you refuse any fights - see Condit, among others), he acts like his interim belt is the real thing - one of the rare breed who believes in his skills and is confident enough to take on all comers, as if he were the "real" champ. Which, in my opinion, is what that makes him.

All this being said, the worst case scenario for Dominick is that he fights the same guy he would be fighting anyways upon his return - if Renan's excellent attitude happens to lose him the interim, he can fight that guy. There is absolutely no drawback to stripping someone after 1.5 years of non-defense with the promise of an immidiate shot upon his return. I mean, he's got the commentary gig... it's not like he's going broke in the interim. But Renan's losing that legit champ paper.

 

Strip Dominick with the promise of a shot when he's healthy. It's so very simple, and Renan gets the cash he's so bravely earned.

 

What say you?


I tend to believe if a man earns something he has the right to keep it.

That being said, in the case of a combat sport where title defenses are necessary to clarify the abilities of competitors, stripping Cruz would invalidates their abilities. For example, if Cruz is stripped and Barao named new champ, Barao would lose value. No matter how many wins he amasses, he never defeated the linear champ. Critics would point to this as evidence of him not being the true champion. I would not want to be a champion that way, unless Cruz retires. I'd want to earn it like the guys before me. Although, I am sympathetic to an extremely long delay, as Barao has to wait to test his skills. But...

This is fighting. Want the belt? Go take it from the guy who has it.

So if the UFC announces:

"A UFC champ is contractually obligated to defend his belt once every 12-months. We have given Cruz 18, and it has become apparent his injuries have not fully healed.

We will be awarding the true belt to the interim holder - Renan Barao - and Cruz will be given an immidiate shot, should he recover"

How is that so different than Cruz retiring from these injuries?

 

Should he go beat Cruz up during his next rehab session to "take it from the guy who has it"?


No he should not go fight him illegally in an unsanctioned fight.

The UFC has the right to enforce the terms of their contracts. If they in fact stripped Cruz, Barao should become champion as he is already the interim.

I do not agree with taking the title from him, as he rightfully owned it.

I really don't care how much money Barao makes.
3/28/13 1:05 AM
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UltimatePower
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3/28/13 7:58 PM
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rockafella
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Undisputed Champion is what matters not some silly belt. Him and Barao are both Champs equally right now IMO until they unify the titles and we have an undisputed Champion again.

If you're out a year and they establish an interim title you really are no longer the Champ.
3/28/13 8:11 PM
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HandyDarsh
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I say the only way Cruz loses the title is if renan take it from him.
Renan must beat him to be the REAL champ.

If anything, the long layoff will favor renan while he stays active anyway.
I don't get why Cruz"s time off angers people so bad, those people probably never liked him as the champ in the first place. Phone Post 3.0
3/28/13 8:14 PM
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Lobo8
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HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe - 
FinestScotch -

Pretty simple, really... anything over 1 year is WAY too long to hold an un-defended title. Over 6 months is pushing it, in my opinion.

That's the tertiary point.

The secondary point is that Renan is the active champ - he has been defending the active belt, and holds a win over Cruz' last defense, giving great legitamacy. If Tominick Cruise retires tomorrow, then suddenly, Renan has been defending the *real* belt, when looked at in retrospect.

The key point is money - Renan DESERVES full-champion money, because unlike several others who have held an interim belt (or title-shot ticket that lets you refuse any fights - see Condit, among others), he acts like his interim belt is the real thing - one of the rare breed who believes in his skills and is confident enough to take on all comers, as if he were the "real" champ. Which, in my opinion, is what that makes him.

All this being said, the worst case scenario for Dominick is that he fights the same guy he would be fighting anyways upon his return - if Renan's excellent attitude happens to lose him the interim, he can fight that guy. There is absolutely no drawback to stripping someone after 1.5 years of non-defense with the promise of an immidiate shot upon his return. I mean, he's got the commentary gig... it's not like he's going broke in the interim. But Renan's losing that legit champ paper.

 

Strip Dominick with the promise of a shot when he's healthy. It's so very simple, and Renan gets the cash he's so bravely earned.

 

What say you?

Renen doesn't just automatically make more money once he's the undisputed champion. He'll have to wait for his contract to end either way. Then when he negotiates his new contract, I don't see him making much more being the champ that never actually beat the champ, than being the interim champ still waiting to fight he champ. Phone Post

Actually they let fighter under contract renegotiate their contracts before a title fight so if they win they will start making way more. I dont know if this applies to interim belts though.
3/28/13 8:16 PM
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JerodR
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Originally I would have said yes, because usually the UFC give out interm belts like Pez and they are never defended. In this case the interm belt is being defended so the division is not being held up. For that reason I personally don't think Cruz should be stripped.

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