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UnderGround Forums >> UFC knew the .9 allowance for GSP was illegal


3/30/13 3:15 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Edited: 03/30/13 3:17 PM
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orcus - 

"The fact that someone THAT high up at Zuffa would be responding in those texts in that childish and decieving of a way is comical."

What's comical is that you are so feverishly determined to find some outrage over this that even once you are forced to see that no rules were broken, you still cling to the tone of the UFC guy's texts to Nick's douchebag lawyer.

Perhaps you should be making threads demanding a Code of Professionalism in Communications for UFC Representatives, since that seems to be your issue now.

 

 

 


It's not his "tone" as you cannot even truly and accurately pick up tone in type. He LIES. That's not subjective. He flat out denies a conversation happened, that is on VIDEO. More than once. Not only does he lie, he then also takes cheap shots at Nick himself as deflection. EDIT: Look it is right up there in the post above. LMFAO at you trying to spin the issue with those texts as "tone"....

 

 

 

 

Again, I hope you get paid well to say such stupid things and spend so much time trying to pretend nothing shady is going on.

3/30/13 3:17 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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LNPNinja still can't seem to fathom how an AC would set different rules for different promotions.  For some reason, it baffles him that the Montreal commission would use decimals for boxing/Hopkins fight and for the UFC they wouldn't, yet finds it completely normal that the California commission allows elbows in the UFC but no elbows for Strikeforce.

Promotions rules....how the fuck do they work?


how do they work? cause they sure the fuck were not following the promotions weigh-in rules for this one.

they cali commision should have said fuck what strikeforce wants,we run shit here...and we feel like having elbows for this one.
3/30/13 3:24 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/30/13 3:32 PM
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"it is a very different practice...if you weigh 170.5 in quebec (depending on the event apparently), then you make weight, but not so in other jurisdictions including nevada"

It's not a different practice in kind or principle whatsoever. It's different in degree only.

Yes or no -- are you okay with rounding 170.4 to 170, but not 170.6 to 170?

"..its an off  the record rule, applied by the same commission, with the same written rules, in an inconsistent manner.."

Who gives a fuck? It's literally not against any rule. The fact that everyone is outraged by rounding taking place to ANY degree in a title fight makes it painfully obvious that apparently no one -- including fighters and managers -- knew the "rules" that ANY commission uses, even when they've been used entirely consistently for years as in the case of NSAC where most events take place.

What good was NSAC's 100% consistency in rounding down to the half pound, when absolutely no one seems at all aware that that was their rule, despite having fought there time after time after time? Yet somehow Quebec's inconsistency is a major problem? lol, you're reaching soooo hard here.

So what are you bitching about? That the guys who don't know the rules ANYWHERE also don't know them in Quebec? That the guys who don't ask about the rules ANYWHERE also don't ask about them in Quebec?

 

The true hilarity comes in the fact that you're reduced to shrieking that the fighters aren't told in advance (which is true of absolutely every AC), but this is actually the ONE time the fighters WERE told in advance -- ever, by any AC as far as we know. They, unlike every other AC at ever other event, did exactly what you say you want, and rather than be happy and praise them for finally stepping up and making the rules clear, all you can say is it's "shady" that they did so.

Do you really not see what a joke you are?

3/30/13 3:26 PM
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orcus
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"Again, I hope you get paid well to say such stupid things and spend so much time trying to pretend nothing shady is going on."

I hope you're paid well to say such provably stupid things and spend so much time complaining about what wholly irrelevant things were said in a conversation between a businessman and a lawyer.

3/30/13 3:30 PM
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orcus
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"the only issue is if they want to set some standard, they need to put it in the rule book"

Literally not a single person has ever suggested they should not put it in the rules. So what do you keep arguing about?

Every single person is in agreement: It would be best if all ACs put their weight tolerances in the regulations, as currently not one of them do as far as I or you are aware. 

 

3/30/13 3:32 PM
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orcus
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" cause they sure the fuck were not following the promotions weigh-in rules for this one."

Of course they were. No UFC rule specifies to what place weights must be recorded.

3/30/13 3:32 PM
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Harold_Howard
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Anyone who is making a big deal of this seriously needs to get a life Phone Post 3.0
3/30/13 3:35 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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Lazer MMA - 
"There are obvious inconsistencies here in the stories of both the commission and the UFC. As Tweedale pointed out, the UFC very well could have been in a bad position where the commission changed something at the last minute and they were left with no choice but to go along with it, but it's still strange to see Mersch tell Tweedale "I don't know what you're talking about" when it was absolutely a conversation he held."

"This meant, simply, that 170.9 would be considered the same thing as 170, a rule of which the UFC was clearly unaware as they inquired why they were not informed of this prior to this close to the weigh-in. This is very strange given that title fights have always required a fighter to come in exactly at or below the contracted weight, in this case 170."

"The Quebec commission also claimed that this was standard practice for them, despite a history that certainly suggests otherwise"

OP's source

So at the end of the day, this is some shady shit that happened. It appears nothing can be done to correct this injustice. I don't like the legal challenges here because of jurisdiction issues.

the legal challenges are good because even if it is with in their right to interpret the weigh-in how they want to...its def not with in their rt to not inform anyone with in a reasonable amount of time of how they would be doing things...so shit like this does not happen.
you wanna not use the decimal,ok cool...but you have to let the motherfuckers fighting know this shit with in a reasonable amount of time.especially if they were unaware this rule could even be interpreted any other way then his contract says.
3/30/13 4:19 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
SQUEEZIE - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

"The issue is with the commission."

What is the issue with the commission? What did they do wrong?


They have "rules" that are not in writting, that apparently them implement and do not implement whenever they feel like it. They used the decimal at UFC 124, but not at this one or others. They used the decimal in many other MMA events and a boxing event where they broke ANOTHER rules of theirs that you do not get time to re-cut if you miss (Hopkins was .6lbs over and was allowed to cut.

 

If you cannot see that they are doing something inconsistent at the minimum, and corrupt at the maximum then you have serious mental issues.

 

Then apparently the UFC is 100% aware of these special "off the record" rules that the commission decides to implement as they see fit. The UFC decides it is smart to wait until the last possible chance before the weigh ins to make a fighter fighting for the UFC belt aware that these "off the record" rules are in place, and then that SAME official for the UFC, who is on video stating these "off the record" rules repeatedly tries to pretend the conversation never happened.

 

Again, if you cannot see that something shady/fucked up is going on here, you have serious mental issues ( or you ARE a zuffa schill like many think you are).


So how do you know it's the commission that is inconsistent and not the request of the promotion?  Maybe this would be like you saying the California commission is 'shady' because when UFC holds events elbows are allowed but when Strifeforce would hold events, no elbows were allowed.  And then you'd go ahead and assume it's the commission that randomely changes the rule.


are you saying its the ufc fault for the shady shit?

I think the statement if pretty clear, however I'm not one to say everything that happens is someone's fault or must be shady.  For all I (and you) know, the UFC requested no decimals be used and the commission agreed.  That doesn't make anything shady nor does it make it wrong.  It's just the level of tolerance they chose to use, which is fine.

 I highly doubt the head of the Montreal AC puts a bunch of pieces of paper in a UFC hat stating "round to the pound," "round to the 1/10 of a pound," "round to the hundredth of a pound," "round to 1/2 pound," and then they play a fun game where one is pulled out and that's what they use for that promotions event.


i think its clear you and orcus dont know what the fuck is going on in real life...even if all you guys say is true.the commission and or ufc have to let the fighters know whats going on with in a reasonable amount of time...

if the ufc requested this then they are at fault for not notifying the participant about how the commission interprets weight readings there.(why would the ufc request this and not tell nick or gsp?)

if the ufc didn't know the commission is at fault for not letting them know this is how they will interpret the weight reading there for this event.(why would the commission do this and not tell anyone?)

a lot of it just seems fucking funny and unnecessary if people were not in cahoots.

you and orcus try not to pull any muscles reaching so fucking hard.

and people don't get mad at 170.04 if the scale reads 170.0 because this is the contracted scale. 170.0 = 170

now,if the scale reads 170.9 170.9 > 170

the real world...how does it work.
3/30/13 4:23 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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orcus -

"the only issue is if they want to set some standard, they need to put it in the rule book"

Literally not a single person has ever suggested they should not put it in the rules. So what do you keep arguing about?

Every single person is in agreement: It would be best if all ACs put their weight tolerances in the regulations, as currently not one of them do as far as I or you are aware. 

 

U dumbfuck u have been trying to argue they did nothing wrong. If try should it be in their rule book it is doing something wrong. And yes they did violate their own rules u monkey. For example they do allow fighters more time to make weight. It dd y happen at this event but they would have allowed it to happen and the fact that they violated it in the past should alert a normal person that they do not function how they should. Phone Post 3.0
3/30/13 4:24 PM
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orcus
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"i think its clear you and orcus dont know what the fuck is going on in real life...even if all you guys say is true.the commission and or ufc have to let the fighters know whats going on with in a reasonable amount of time..."

lol...guess what dummy, in "real life", neither the commission nor the UFC have to go out of their way to let the fighters know how the weights will be rounded if they're not asked. You know how I know this? Because it's not in the rules and it's how it happens in, you know, "real life".

3/30/13 4:26 PM
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orcus -

" cause they sure the fuck were not following the promotions weigh-in rules for this one."

Of course they were. No UFC rule specifies to what place weights must be recorded.

No. The contract does, which the Quebec rules say is the weight that should be followed. There is no qualification for rounding or dropping decimals. So yes, they are violating their own rules because they allow fighters that weigh in greater than the contracted max to make weight and fight. Phone Post 3.0
3/30/13 4:29 PM
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orcus
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 
orcus -

"the only issue is if they want to set some standard, they need to put it in the rule book"

Literally not a single person has ever suggested they should not put it in the rules. So what do you keep arguing about?

Every single person is in agreement: It would be best if all ACs put their weight tolerances in the regulations, as currently not one of them do as far as I or you are aware. 

 

U dumbfuck u have been trying to argue they did nothing wrong. If try should it be in their rule book it is doing something wrong. And yes they did violate their own rules u monkey. For example they do allow fighters more time to make weight. It dd y happen at this event but they would have allowed it to happen and the fact that they violated it in the past should alert a normal person that they do not function how they should. Phone Post 3.0

Okay, so your thousands of posts on the topic are because you're outraged that the Quebec AC let Bernard Hopkins have an hour to make weight in a fight three years ago, and that's against their rules. The source of your outrage is that you are a monstrous stickler for rules, except you have zero interest in looking at the rules of any other AC to see if the countless times in ALL jurisdictions where a fighter has been given an hour have all been legal. And your outrage is sparked by the outrage of Nick Diaz's camp, who themselves have never shown any interest in or regard for the rules whatsoever.

Got it.

Props on ignoring everything else btw. You're on a roll, dipshit.

3/30/13 4:30 PM
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rrg1
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orcus - 

"i think its clear you and orcus dont know what the fuck is going on in real life...even if all you guys say is true.the commission and or ufc have to let the fighters know whats going on with in a reasonable amount of time..."

lol...guess what dummy, in "real life", neither the commission nor the UFC have to go out of their way to let the fighters know how the weights will be rounded if they're not asked. You know how I know this? Because it's not in the rules and it's how it happens in, you know, "real life".


lol @ the rules being transparent and equally applied for all fights and fighters = going out of the way.

BTW, you don't know shit obviously.
3/30/13 4:33 PM
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orcus
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orcus -

" cause they sure the fuck were not following the promotions weigh-in rules for this one."

Of course they were. No UFC rule specifies to what place weights must be recorded.

No. The contract does, which the Quebec rules say is the weight that should be followed. There is no qualification for rounding or dropping decimals. So yes, they are violating their own rules because they allow fighters that weigh in greater than the contracted max to make weight and fight. Phone Post 3.0

lol! Are you going back to square one because you've exhausted all other routes?

Okay, let's go back to square one: The contract does not specify that it is referring to the weight displayed on the scale. Period. Therefore it can be argued, and certainly WOULD be argued and would hold up in court, that the weight referred to is the official weight, for which no rules or contracts limit or define the tolerance.

If the strict number on the scale is never noted, announced, or recorded ANYWHERE, it is laughable to suggest that that is the weight that is being referred to. If it were, then clearly it would HAVE to be noted, announced, or recorded, and most likely would have more than one person doing so.

Explain to me how the fuck you tell a judge that a fighter who officially weighed 170, with no other number anywhere in evidence whatsoever, broke the contract that said he had to weigh 170.

3/30/13 4:36 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/30/13 4:38 PM
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rrg1 - 
orcus - 

"i think its clear you and orcus dont know what the fuck is going on in real life...even if all you guys say is true.the commission and or ufc have to let the fighters know whats going on with in a reasonable amount of time..."

lol...guess what dummy, in "real life", neither the commission nor the UFC have to go out of their way to let the fighters know how the weights will be rounded if they're not asked. You know how I know this? Because it's not in the rules and it's how it happens in, you know, "real life".


lol @ the rules being transparent and equally applied for all fights and fighters = going out of the way.

BTW, you don't know shit obviously.

 

How much more transparent can they be then announcing those rounded weights on a stage in front of the fighters, the managers, and a crowd of journalists and fans, broadcast on the internet and preserved for posterity on youtube?

 

Yes, it is "going out of their way". The fighter doesn't have to be concerned with their rounding. If he cuts to the weight limit he will be 100% fine and will not have to give any of it a second thought. This should be obvious by the fact that years and years of events have been going on with rounded weights -- with neither the UFC nor the AC "going out of their way" to inform the fighters -- and there have been no issues and no complaints until mr "he sent spies to my camp, i absorbed sodium through my skin in the ocean, all he did was hold me down, waah waah waah".

"BTW, you don't know shit obviously."

Yeah, obviously. That's why Diaz's lawyer is going to take this all the way and win 20% of GSP's purse, right?

3/30/13 4:40 PM
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T Bag
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Orcus is absolutely eviscerating the Diaz-huggers in this thread! Incredible!
I'm not even a GSP fan, and think this is a non-issue
3/30/13 4:43 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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orcus - 

"both by commission,ufc and anyone who competed there knowing this with out their opposition knowing about the same amount of time as they did."

Luckily for you we have absolutely no reason to believe GSP had more advance warning than Nick did, and in fact a statement from Firaz that he was told that same day before weighins just like Nick.


how the fuck am i lucky because of that? o, and yea i better believe it if firaz said it.he has no connection to gsp what so ever.get real guy.what about the other fights he had there?if they were doing the same thing then,why did they decide to tell him this time and not those times?

and when did i even say i believed gsp knew before nick...
never is when.

and also please tel me why you think that this is all about gsp any way. hardly the issue at hand for the time being upon further review.depending on his knowledge of the situation.
3/30/13 4:46 PM
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Standup29
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -

Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????

Im pretty sure I answered with my opinion on that. He tried to do them a favor and they are now trying to use that to prove they cheated for GSP. I wouldn't have done much different.

And again, he shouldn't have said anything to begin with. He was wrong to do it. He should be held accountable. Phone Post
3/30/13 4:50 PM
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Standup29
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Standup29 - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - You think he's really going to rehydrate sooner so he can get an extra .9 lbs? How easy do u think it is to measure that? Also wouldn't it have been better to tell him before he started cutting? If he was going to tell him, he should have told him then. Phone Post 3.0
Again he shouldn't have said anything. It would have been better for the Diaz camp to ask how they interpret the decimal.

For example, in Nevada they round 170.4 down to 170 and 170.5 up to 171. What is the practice here?

I would think they would ask Something as in their last title fight out of CG camp, Nate thought he could weigh in at 171.

MM shouldn't have tried to do them or anyone any favors. That was wrong period. I have zero problem with him being punished for it. Phone Post

So ridiculous to try and pretend that MM was doing Diaz and co a "favor".

 

Answer the question:

 

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages????? 

Has been answered already. If you disagree he was doing them a favor cool but don't act like it is far fetched at all. I gave rational (Nate not knowing what he could weigh in at for his fight) and benefit regardless if he was already at 169. Stop pretending only your opinion is valid. People disagree with you. Your facts are no better than anyone elses.

And we agree that MM shouldn't have said anything he is not the AC. Any questions about weight should be addressed and answered by them. Period. Phone Post
3/30/13 4:57 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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orcus - 

" cause they sure the fuck were not following the promotions weigh-in rules for this one."

Of course they were. No UFC rule specifies to what place weights must be recorded.


you make no sense if you really understand what you just typed rt here.
3/30/13 5:03 PM
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Standup29
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
orcus - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????


Which quote from him says that?

I think he was brusque and weird in that conversation, but nothing he said and no way he acted can change the fact that absolutely no rule was broken that we are aware of.

 


Which quote?

 

"I don't know what you're talking about" more than once.

 

You still didn't actually answer the question. If there was nothing at all suspect or shady about what MM told the Diaz camp, why did he LIE and flat out deny that he even had the conversation at all???

The simple answers are 1. Because he doesn't have to answer anything on a text message. 2. It doesn't change no rules were actually broken.

Do you understand that there is not a single rule that says they can't round decimals? Just like there is no rule that says they do round decimals. Which is also like there is no rule that says they can't round decimals.

Do you understand nearly all AC's round in some way? Do you find it wrong that the NSAC founds 170.4 down to 170?

You do realize the only problem here is MM said anything? He shouldn't have as it has made a non issue an issue. It is more than enough reason to answer the texts (which is pretty fucking lame) that was trying to put words in his mouth. He never said there was a .9 allowance. He said they round down, while essentially it is the same in reality (both could allow .9 over 170 to be ok) it is not the same in context. Saying they round is not the same as saying there is a .9 pound allowance. Diaz lawyer knows that and that is why he worded it that way. MM was smart in his answers but it certainly fuels the conspiracy theories. Phone Post
3/30/13 5:04 PM
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orcus
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"and yea i better believe it if firaz said it.he has no connection to gsp what so ever.get real guy.what about the other fights he had there?if they were doing the same thing then,why did they decide to tell him this time and not those times?"

If they didn't tell his opponents the previous times, but supposedly did tell GSP, why did they tell Nick this time?

"and also please tel me why you think that this is all about gsp any way. hardly the issue at hand"

Because you said it's a big problem if someone competed there without their opponent being informed at the same time they were -- which, as far as we know, has never taken place.

"you make no sense if you really understand what you just typed rt here."

No, you don't understand. Neither the promotion's nor the AC's rules specify the tolerances to be used for official weights. 

3/30/13 5:10 PM
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Standup29
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SQUEEZIE -
DirtehSneakehs - 
Barbalos - His lawyer is trolling MM here. "Nick's not going to make an issue of it". UH, then what is he doing here? Quit crying camp Caesar, you lost fair and square, and completely. The only people who give a shit about this at this point is camp Gracie CryJitsu and diaz ball slobberers.
Why can't this about a fucking rule that may have been bent more than once and not about Nick Diaz? You assholes talk about 'balls' and "Diaz" more than a Diaz fan! Phone Post

What rule though. Its so funny how everyone is screaming about the broken or bent rule yet nobody can point to said rule.

Why is this? Why is it answered with name calling or pretending it's so obvious. Nobody can point to any rule because none was broken. That is the point and so many are chosing to ignore it.

MM acting "shady" doesn't prove a rule was broken. It doesn't prove anything orher than MM blowing off Diaz lawyer. We can argue why all day but it still doesn't change the reality that no rules were broken. At the end of the day that is what matters. All of this speculation is pointless.

Hopefully all ACs will ensure they clarify what tbey do in the rules and regulations they enforce but as of now it variws from State to State and AC to AC. Phone Post
3/30/13 5:12 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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orcus - 

"you are obviously trying to lump quebec with all these other commissions, but the reality is that they have a very different practice when it comes to weighins...why dont you just admit this?"

Rounding to whole pounds rather than to half pounds is not a "very different practice". Every complaint about this has been that "for a title fight you can't be over, period". Are you saying the outrage is now "ok, you can be over by .4, but not by .6, that's outrageous!!!"? Get real. Why don't you just admit that's fucking retarded and not actually the way you feel -- that you're just trolling?


it is a very different practice...if you weigh 170.5 in quebec (depending on the event apparently), then you make weight, but not so in other jurisdictions including nevada..if you dont make weight you have to give up a significant part of your purse and the fight potentially can be called off...that is a significant difference no matter how you try to spin it

and you are trying soooo hard to dismiss the fact that quebec doesnt even always drop the decimal...that IS A BIG DEAL DUMMY...its an off  the record rule, applied by the same commission, with the same written rules, in an inconsistent manner...even if we were to assume its ok that an off the record rule exists (which its not), at the VERY MINIMUM, they need to apply the same off the record rule to each event under their jurisdiction under their rules...ask yourself this...what is the rational basisand genesis for deviation from their own off the record rule? explain it to me


how can anyone take take him serious after that?

he thinks they round 170.4 down to 170.0 for title fights? and that 170.6 rounds up to 171.0 in a title fight?

please tel me this is what orcus is implying so i know he has no clue whats going on instead of just thinking it.

and can you also tel me when in this world we started rounding 170.9 down to 170.0 instead of 171.0 in athletic comp. or anything for that matter?

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